[Hale1320]

Ok I understand you can't have high SPL, a small enclosure, and a low budget. Couldn't talk the wife into a high budget so. Size really isn't a problem (within reason). Coming over from the car audio world, so I know a little but pretty much everything goes out the window. I have done a lot of reading on this forum and there in so much info on here it is kinda hard to take it in.


Ok now that's out of the way, I'm looking to build a dedicated sub just for movies. So the lower I can get the better. I really don't have any preference in the size of the drivers (bigger seems to always be better on this forum). I am intrigued by the horn designs, mainly because I have never seen one before I joined this forum a week ago. Building the enclosure is a none issue. I got that down, been building boxes for years for car systems. Designing the enclosure on the other hand will be a big learning curve for me. The budget is going to be AROUND 400$ for the driver(s) and AROUND 400$ for the amp. The amp can be rack or plate style. I know the is not a whole lot to work with but it's what I got. Also might be worth noting that I have no problem buying used stuff.


Just looking for some advice and for someone to point me in the right direction on "horns for dummies"


I was thinking two Dayton Audio DCS450-4 18" in some sort of horn, powered by a crown XLS 1500. Those dayton's just have a low xmax but I'm guessing the make up for it in cone area?


Thanks and I apologize in advance for the noobishness and my grammar.

 

[Danielson99]

It would really depend alot on the size of your room. Two Cinema F20's designed my lilmike might be suitable, perhaps 2 THT's by Bill Fitzmaurice.


Horn's use very little power so your budget could possibly be adjusted.


Whatever driver you choose, it needs to be designed for a specific enclosure. Someone who know's how to use Hornresp would be helpful. Lilmike would be an excellent person to shoot a question or two. Have you read the Cinema F20 thread? If not that's a good place to start.

 

[maxmercy]

This choice is easy. With the MFW-15s now essentially gone, get a pair of 15" Reference HFs or 15" Dayton DVCs (essentially the same as the MFW-15), and get some wood to build the....


Cinema F20. It's a free design, and it's better than a THT; as you can lay it down or stand it up and it's driver remains in a vertical orientation, and it is a much easier build. It's also got a flatter freq response, smaller footprint when stood up, and more thorough testing behind it (I was there for it, we found it's limits, and lilmike and I were pleasantly surprised by its flat freq response). There are no claims of extension to 10Hz with 110dB sensitivity in an "average room". Put two of them in your room to cancel room modes and have one tremendous row of sound, drive them with a few hundred watts apiece, EQ them carefully, and enjoy.


No better bang for buck out there for reference level bass down to 20Hz. If your room will support it, you can go lower, but there are limits...


Make them pretty and put fake doors on them to make them look like armoires if you have to.


JSS

 

[lilmike]



Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy /forum/post/20771845


This choice is easy. With the MFW-15s now essentially gone, get a pair of 15" Reference HFs or 15" Dayton DVCs (essentially the same as the MFW-15), and get some wood to build the....


Cinema F20. It's a free design, and it's better than a THT; as you can lay it down or stand it up and it's driver remains in a vertical orientation, and it is a much easier build. It's also got a flatter freq response, smaller footprint when stood up, and more thorough testing behind it (I was there for it, we found it's limits, and lilmike and I were pleasantly surprised by its flat freq response). There are no claims of extension to 10Hz with 110dB sensitivity in an "average room". Put two of them in your room to cancel room modes and have one tremendous row of sound, drive them with a few hundred watts apiece, EQ them carefully, and enjoy.


No better bang for buck out there for reference level bass down to 20Hz. If your room will support it, you can go lower, but there are limits...


Make them pretty and put fake doors on them to make them look like armoires if you have to.


JSS

Or bust out the Behr Premium Satin Black, grab a roller, and paint them black. They hide pretty well with the lights out. One F-20 rocked a wedding reception last weekend, everyone thought it was a DJ table.


Seriously - if the F-20 is too big, my T-6 is right on deck. I still have to do proper measurements so that I know its limits and characteristics, then I will post full plans and details. What do you give up? About 10 Hz, and 14 cubic feet of cabinet, and a few dB at the top end with the driver I used. To be fair - I recommend a pair of T-6s, which is still only two 6-cubic-foot cabinets. With a pair, you only give up those last 10 Hz, and actually gain a few dBs.


I can hit 110 dB at my couch with one (~4 meters back), at less than 10% THD. A pair will do reference levels above 28 Hz or so. They will throw ripples in a beverage sitting on my coffee table. Not bad for a pair of 8" drivers fed with about 150 watts each in cabinets that only take a single sheet of ply each.

 

[Audiophile34]

Wow Mike, sounds like the t6 is going to be another home run. Build thread?

 

[Cerdic]

I can't recall the sweeps well enough, but how does the T6 do at 20hz? I can't picture what "losing 10db" means in reality. I currently have ported Tempest x2 that's 5-6 db down at 20hz, and doesn't even do reference at 28hz, so what you're proposing sounds pretty sweet.


Can't wait to see more info. A slender pair to fit behind my screenwall sounds like a whole lot of fun in a little package!


I'll bet a 500w amp with a 17hz HPF would be a nice match.

 

[lilmike]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophile34 /forum/post/20772286


Wow Mike, sounds like the t6 is going to be another home run. Build thread?

It is all coming as soon as I have a chance to get all my ducks in a row. Several beta builders have had this design for a while and love it. Like one of the beta builders, I chose to make mine with side mouths. They look great and the side mouth opens some placement options. These are much less imposing in a room that is not a dedicated theater. My super-budget econowaves park right on top of them. (Yeah - I got a little bit of time in the shop...

)


I really want to get some proper SPL, distortion, and power compression measurements completed before I share it all. Due to travel, family commitments, and such, it might be a another week or two till I get that far, sorry for the delay.


Sure, I left the stuff below 30 Hz on the table. Don't care, something had to give with a 6-cubic foot cabinet. They really do the rest very well, and I definitely enjoy music and movies as much as I did with my single big sub (Shiva tapped horn). The response is considerably smoother where there is a lot of content because there is a pair of subs. I am thrilled with the results. Put it this way, I have new subs in the living room.

 

[lilmike]

10 Hz, not 10 dB.


Above 30 Hz, the pair is as loud as either my Shiva or an F-20, if not a touch louder.

With 8s.

They just don't do 20 Hz as loud as either. 20 Hz is -17 dB from 30 Hz.


Like I said - something had to give.

 

[Cerdic]

Duh. Typo on my part. I meant 10hz, but came out as db. I just wasn't sure 10hz from -where-. Thanks for the clarification.


I know this sounds greedy, but anything in the middle in the works that will squeeze into a 15" deep screenwall space? I can fit the other dimensions of the F20, just not the depth. I want to build a pair to smooth my response better. My ported Tempest x2 does a nice job, but that driver is no longer available, so I'm looking at options...


Best,

C.

 

[lilmike]

No worries. As far as skinny subs.....hmm.


The T-6 is only 12.75"


The T-14 is currently 17.25", but probably could be made in a "slim" version. I only made it as wide as I did to fully utilize the two sheets of ply and get all the SPL I can.

 

[Cerdic]

T14?????

How many irons do you have in the fire, Mike? Is the T14 with a 10 or 12?


And re: T6, at 6cuft, that's about 24x48". With dual 8's, it sounds similar to a shortened TH-Spud. When you were simming it, was there room left in the tank to lower the knee by extending the path length without overexcursion on the drivers? I have room for something that width up to 24x96 (or 30x50), and I hate to give up bandwidth if I don't have to. I know it's WAY more complicated than that - hornresp and folding would give me fits. I know you're working hard to refine this project, just curious on your thoughts of things you may have already modeled.


Oh, and if you don't mind, roughly what are the dimensions on the T6/14 projects you're finalizing?


Sorry if I've thoroughly derailed this thread.


C.

 

[lilmike]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerdic /forum/post/20772816


T14?????

How many irons do you have in the fire, Mike? Is the T14 with a 10 or 12?


And re: T6, at 6cuft, that's about 24x48". With dual 8's, it sounds similar to a shortened TH-Spud. When you were simming it, was there room left in the tank to lower the knee by extending the path length without overexcursion on the drivers? I have room for something that width up to 24x96 (or 30x50), and I hate to give up bandwidth if I don't have to. I know it's WAY more complicated than that - hornresp and folding would give me fits. I know you're working hard to refine this project, just curious on your thoughts of things you may have already modeled.


Oh, and if you don't mind, roughly what are the dimensions on the T6/14 projects you're finalizing?


Sorry if I've thoroughly derailed this thread.


C.

PM sent. Sorry for derail.

 

[maxmercy]

All good options for the OP, even if they will be future options....


Any more F series horns in the works?


I may have something new by the end of the year, but not subwoofer-wise....



JSS