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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Bare with me I've read up on all I could but still have questions.


Current Setup:

Pioneer VSX-01

Athena F2 Main front and Rear Speakers

Athena R1 - Surround

Paradigm cc390 - Center


My question and advice needed is this. I have my speakers all set to 0db (speaker Level) ... at about -20db (Master Volume) it's more than loud enough for my 18'x10' room. Would buying a separate power amp (either 2ch or 5 channel ) drastically change my sound?


Is it more beneficial to people playing at reference level to use separate amps or would it be something I might take advantage of and enjoy?


I understand that more power = better sound and I'm not truly getting 110w out of my pioneer but at the volumes I listen to my movies at would the sound actually change say if I bought an Adcom GFA 5400?


There no local stores around me for me to bring one home and try. Even though my ears are the best to judge so I'm looking for a little advice here.


The room has been treated btw in case there are any suggestions of that nature.


I'm happy with my sound...but we're always looking to improve



I watch movies 80% or the time and 20% Music.


thanks in advance


Last but not least anyone have any experience with AMC 25100 power amps?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyLeggs /forum/post/16917243


Bare with me I've read up on all I could but still have questions.


Current Setup:

Pioneer VSX-01

Athena F2 Main front and Rear Speakers

Athena R1 - Surround

Paradigm cc390 - Center


My question and advice needed is this. I have my speakers all set to 0db (speaker Level) ... at about -20db (Master Volume) it's more than loud enough for my 18'x10' room. Would buying a separate power amp (either 2ch or 5 channel ) drastically change my sound?


Highly unlikely. As long as you kept the same sound level among your speakers.


Quote:
Is it more beneficial to people playing at reference level to use separate amps or would it be something I might take advantage of and enjoy?

As long as you aren't pushing your receiver's amps too hard and they audibly distort, no.



Quote:
I understand that more power = better sound

An audiophile myth as long as you don't overdrive your amps.

Quote:
and I'm not truly getting 110w out of my pioneer

How do you know that?

Quote:
but at the volumes I listen to my movies at would the sound actually change say if I bought an Adcom GFA 5400?

Not unless you are overdriving your existing amps.

Quote:
There no local stores around me for me to bring one home and try. Even though my ears are the best to judge so I'm looking for a little advice here.


The room has been treated btw in case there are any suggestions of that nature.


I'm happy with my sound...but we're always looking to improve



I watch movies 80% or the time and 20% Music.

Your next logical move for improved sound quality might be a large subwoofer.


The Stereophile review measured est results show flat reasponse of the Athena F2s only extends down to about 50 Hz. What can you expect of two 8" drivers that also have to carry the midrange?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
This was the type of answer I was looking for. Thank you for that.


Quote: "and I'm not truly getting 110w out of my pioneer How do you know that?"

Probably another myth read from people trying to sell power amps :)



Quote: "Your next logical move for improved sound quality might be a large subwoofer.


The Stereophile review measured est results show flat reasponse of the Athena F2s only extends down to about 50 Hz. What can you expect of two 8" drivers that also have to carry the midrange? "

Currently running a Velodyne DPS-12.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk /forum/post/16919810


Highly unlikely. As long as you kept the same sound level among your speakers.




As long as you aren't pushing your receiver's amps too hard and they audibly distort, no.





An audiophile myth as long as you don't overdrive your amps.




How do you know that?



Not unless you are overdriving your existing amps.




Your next logical move for improved sound quality might be a large subwoofer.


The Stereophile review measured est results show flat reasponse of the Athena F2s only extends down to about 50 Hz. What can you expect of two 8" drivers that also have to carry the midrange?

For home theater sound using high quality DVDs, why are you ignoring dynamic range? You will miss out on the capabilities of a good soundtrack unless you are using the big macho 7.1 receivers.


Most receivers simply run out of power unless you keep the volume down to prevent clipping. You are telling the OP that everything is fine but it's simply not true unless he isn't interested in better sound!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by i30krab /forum/post/16928352


For home theater sound using high quality DVDs, why are you ignoring dynamic range?

I did what?

Quote:
You will miss out on the capabilities of a good soundtrack unless you are using the big macho 7.1 receivers.

A Pioneer VSX01 driving 93 dB/watt speakers and a powered subwoofer won't qualify?


If you haven't noticed, most receivers have between 80 and 160 wpc. That's a 3 dB difference in power which is a fairly minimal audible difference.


IOW if you compared an 80 wpc receiver to a 160 wpc receiver, both just below clpping, you'd probably hear that the more powerful one was a little louder, but it wouldn't be like one was way loud, and the other was playing way too softly.

Quote:
Most receivers simply run out of power unless you keep the volume down to prevent clipping.

Actually, they all do that. I've never found a receiver that I can't turn up far enough to make it clip. Have you?

Quote:
You are telling the OP that everything is fine but it's simply not true unless he isn't interested in better sound!

How do you know for sure that he's overdriving his receiver?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk /forum/post/16932070


I did what?




A Pioneer VSX01 driving 93 dB/watt speakers and a powered subwoofer won't qualify?


If you haven't noticed, most receivers have between 80 and 160 wpc. That's a 3 dB difference in power which is a fairly minimal audible difference.


IOW if you compared an 80 wpc receiver to a 160 wpc receiver, both just below clpping, you'd probably hear that the more powerful one was a little louder, but it wouldn't be like one was way loud, and the other was playing way too softly.




Actually, they all do that. I've never found a receiver that I can't turn up far enough to make it clip. Have you?


How do you know for sure that he's overdriving his receiver?





There are so many parameters for every home set up that it really is impossible to have a meaningful discussion about the OPs particular case.


I don't know how loud he plays his system so I couldn't know if he is pushing his receiver to the max.


Believe me I'm not knocking his set up, I'm just saying if you like loud music and sound tracks you never have too much clean power.


Don't forget he did ask "Is it more beneficial to people playing at reference level to use separate amps or would it be something I might take advantage of and enjoy?" The question is a bit confusing but I think he asked if he would enjoy separate amps and you and the other posters never really said yes. You implied his system is fine and don't worry and I'm trying to say yes there is better!




This reminds me of modifying cars for handling and speed. How fast do you want to go? Simple how much money can you spend!




.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by i30krab /forum/post/16932921


There are so many parameters for every home set up that it really is impossible to have a meaningful discussion about the OPs particular case.

Difficult, but not really impossible.

Quote:
I don't know how loud he plays his system so I couldn't know if he is pushing his receiver to the max.

I'm sure that his receiver is the weakest link. The speakers and the room are significant.

Quote:
Believe me I'm not knocking his set up, I'm just saying if you like loud music and sound tracks you never have too much clean power.

Sure you can have too much clean power. You can fry your speakers with too much clean power, and not enough capability in the speakers.


The range between the least efficient speakers commonly in use and the most efficient speakers is about 20 dB. The differences in real world power handling capacity are of a similar magnitude. That's a 40 dB range of possible acoustic output from the least efficient speaker with the lowest power handling capacity and the most efficient speaker with the highest power handling capacity.


The lowest powered power amp in the cheapest regular AV receiver is about 25 watts, with 80 watts being far more typlical of the lowest powered receivers. Add 40 db to that and you're talking from 25,000 to 80,000 watts.


Practically speaking and particularly in the home, you can do far more with speaker efficiency and power handling capacity than you can do with just amplifier power.




Quote:
Don't forget he did ask "Is it more beneficial to people playing at reference level to use separate amps or would it be something I might take advantage of and enjoy?" The question is a bit confusing but I think he asked if he would enjoy separate amps and you and the other posters never really said yes. You implied his system is fine and don't worry and I'm trying to say yes there is better!




This reminds me of modifying cars for handling and speed. How fast do you want to go? Simple how much money can you spend!

There are also very definate limits to how fast you can drive a car. Some where around 250 mph seems to be the current limit to how fast cars can be driven on a closed course or anything resembling a regular road. I think mach 1 has been broken on the ground, but just barely and with great difficulty.


There are limits to how loud you can play your audio system due to issues like ear damage. It is possible to assemble a high performance home audio system that exceeds the limits of ear damage and is still reasonably durable and clean. I've seen it done, up front and personal.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk /forum/post/16933441


Difficult, but not really impossible.




I'm sure that his receiver is the weakest link. The speakers and the room are significant.




Sure you can have too much clean power. You can fry your speakers with too much clean power, and not enough capability in the speakers.


The range between the least efficient speakers commonly in use and the most efficient speakers is about 20 dB. The differences in real world power handling capacity are of a similar magnitude. That's a 40 dB range of possible acoustic output from the least efficient speaker with the lowest power handling capacity and the most efficient speaker with the highest power handling capacity.


The lowest powered power amp in the cheapest regular AV receiver is about 25 watts, with 80 watts being far more typlical of the lowest powered receivers. Add 40 db to that and you're talking from 25,000 to 80,000 watts.


Practically speaking and particularly in the home, you can do far more with speaker efficiency and power handling capacity than you can do with just amplifier power.







There are also very definate limits to how fast you can drive a car. Some where around 250 mph seems to be the current limit to how fast cars can be driven on a closed course or anything resembling a regular road. I think mach 1 has been broken on the ground, but just barely and with great difficulty.


There are limits to how loud you can play your audio system due to issues like ear damage. It is possible to assemble a high performance home audio system that exceeds the limits of ear damage and is still reasonably durable and clean. I've seen it done, up front and personal.

Please remind me what we were talking about?
Right now I'm going to my garage to work on my 1996 Infiniti I30. I've been modifying this car for 13 years and I'm up to 450 FWHP, the only thing original on the car is the body. Don't you just love your toys!
 
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