[jim425]

I'm planning on buying some speakers pretty soon to get some sound into the media room in our house, and was hoping to get some advice from the members on the forum!


Here's a basic layout of the room:

• The primary portion of the room is 19 feet across, and 24 feet deep with an 8 foot ceiling.
• The closet/media cabinetry at the front (bottom of the pic) of the room is 2 feet deep.
• The room is prewired for 4 surround speakers in the ceiling. There's a couple of feet of slack in the wiring behind the ceiling, but that starts roughly where the X's are.
• The media cabinetry has 3 cabinets (with a fabric grille on the cabinet door) at floor level of 21" H x 21" W x 24" D (so yes, the front sound stage isn't centered with the room - it's centered with the screen).
• WAF is extremely important, so getting beyond in-ceiling surrounds will be a tough sell. Ceiling mount might be a possibility; wall mount will probably be shot down. That also means the L/R/C must go within the 3 cabinets in the front.
• Budget is probably around $3500 including S/W. It could be slightly stretched, but again - requires a sales pitch to the wife.
• Usage is probably 50% movies, 35% games, 15% music, but the movies and music have to be top notch.
• My previous setup (which doesn't fit in the criteria for this room at all, which is why I'm back at square one) was Definitive Tech all around - BP2004TL fronts, C/L/R 2300 center, and BP2X rears, with a PF15TL+ sub.
• It will initially be powered by a Marantz SR-8200 until I can find a suitable replacement for it.

Here are some of the alternatives I've considered so far:

• An all Aperion setup: 6B fronts, 5C center, 632 in ceiling surrounds.
• Mix in Ascend Sierra-1 fronts and center, but use Aperion surrounds.
• Mix in Axiom M22 fronts and VP100 center, with Aperion surrounds or Axiom W2/W3 surrounds.
• SVS MBS-01 fronts and see if I can get a single MBS-01 as a center (since I can't fit the MCS-01 in the cabinet), with Aperion surrounds.
• A Definite Tech Mythos setup: Mythos Six fronts, Mythos Seven center, with UIW BP/A surrounds.

The sub is not something with which I'm really concerned; all the companies I've been looking at so far seem to have pretty good subs - I just need to make sure I'm looking at something that is powerful enough to fill the room. (I'm guessing Aperion Bravus 12D, Rythmik D15 SE, Axiom EP500, Def Tech Supercube I or II, SVS PC12-Plus or PB12-Plus would all have sufficient power)


I am more concerned about whether I can get sufficient volume out of bookshelves for the space, how using non-timbre matching surrounds versus fronts might impact the viewing experience, and whether the in-ceilings will be enough.


Thanks in advance!

 

[craig john]

Where will the seating be?


Also, it appears that the surrounds you are considering are of the infinite baffle design, (they us the ceiling structure as the "enclosure".) Before you commit to one of these designs, you should read the following article:
http://www.cepro.com/article/how_to_...peaker_systems


Craig

 

[jim425]

The seating will likely be slightly behind the bottom set of X's, centered on the screen.


As for the infinite baffle design, thanks for the heads up. The room is on the top floor, so the ceiling behind the sheet rock is open to an incline, which might make for a poor enclosure. Looks like I'd have to use Definitive Tech UIW RSS III's or get some brackets and use ceiling mounts.

 

[jim425]

Bump for more input from others.

 

[craig john]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jim425 /forum/post/15464703


The seating will likely be slightly behind the bottom set of X's, centered on the screen.


As for the infinite baffle design, thanks for the heads up. The room is on the top floor, so the ceiling behind the sheet rock is open to an incline, which might make for a poor enclosure. Looks like I'd have to use Definitive Tech UIW RSS III's or get some brackets and use ceiling mounts.

The side surrounds should ideally not be in front of the seating. At most they should be at the sides of the seating.
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_e...omlayout2.html

They're already somewhat compromised being overhead. Can they be moved back and further apart?


The RSS III's would be an excellent choice. If you want to save a little money, I can recommend the Mirage Omnicans. They have 180 degree dispersion and work very well as in-ceiling surrounds:
http://www.miragespeakers.com/na-en/...iling-speaker/


Craig

 

[jim425]

The seating is pretty easy enough to move up, and it should be pretty straight forward to move the side surrounds back too (one of the benefits of not having done anything yet to the room

)


Including the one on which the side surround wires are currently coiled up, there are 5 identically spaced (at least from what I've seen in some rough pictures) beams behind the sheet rock. Let's call them A/B/C/D/E, where E is the furthest from the back wall (and so, the side surround wires are on E). The rear surround wires are coiled on B. If the spacing between the beams is X, then beam A is located ~X/2 from the back, and there's an additional beam between B and C.


I'm guessing ideally, the surrounds should be located a couple of feet above listening position, but unless it's a *lot* better than the in-ceiling option, it probably won't sell to the wife, not to mention there's not really any wall on which to mount the rear surrounds, and the alcove to the side would be a little weird for the right side surround.

 

[craig john]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jim425 /forum/post/15478228


The seating is pretty easy enough to move up, and it should be pretty straight forward to move the side surrounds back too (one of the benefits of not having done anything yet to the room

)

The other "issue" besides front/back spacing is L/R spacing. It appears that the centerline of the surround speakers does not coincide with the centerline of the display/front speakers. Which centerline will the seating be aligned to? My suggestion would be to align it to the front soundstage/display, and adjust the ceiling surrounds around that, optimizing to the Dolby rec's as much as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim425 /forum/post/15478228


Including the one on which the side surround wires are currently coiled up, there are 5 identically spaced (at least from what I've seen in some rough pictures) beams behind the sheet rock. Let's call them A/B/C/D/E, where E is the furthest from the back wall (and so, the side surround wires are on E). The rear surround wires are coiled on B. If the spacing between the beams is X, then beam A is located ~X/2 from the back, and there's an additional beam between B and C.

Sorry, that "explanation" went right over my head. Could you possibly edit the diagram with dashed lines where the "beams" are. Also, how can a room of your size and that is "on the top floor, so the ceiling behind the sheet rock is open to an incline," only have 5 "beams"? It should have "beams" or joists at 16" or 24" on-centers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim425 /forum/post/15478228


I'm guessing ideally, the surrounds should be located a couple of feet above listening position, but unless it's a *lot* better than the in-ceiling option, it probably won't sell to the wife, not to mention there's not really any wall on which to mount the rear surrounds, and the alcove to the side would be a little weird for the right side surround.

The in-ceiling surround option can actually work pretty well. I have helped a couple of friends install in-ceiling surrounds with the Omnicans. I was surprised how well they worked. I think, if you use self-enclosed speakers and you deploy them optimally, they can work well.


Craig

 

[jim425]



Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john /forum/post/15478540


The other "issue" besides front/back spacing is L/R spacing. It appears that the centerline of the surround speakers does not coincide with the centerline of the display/front speakers. Which centerline will the seating be aligned to? My suggestion would be to align it to the front soundstage/display, and adjust the ceiling surrounds around that, optimizing to the Dolby rec's as much as possible.

The seating will align to the soundstage/display, so I'll try and make sure the ceiling surrounds align to that as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john /forum/post/15478540


Sorry, that "explanation" went right over my head. Could you possibly edit the diagram with dashed lines where the "beams" are. Also, how can a room of your size and that is "on the top floor, so the ceiling behind the sheet rock is open to an incline," only have 5 "beams"? It should have "beams" or joists at 16" or 24" on-centers.

I've updated the image, along with the following picture that shows what's behind the ceiling. I might not have the right building terminology being used. =)

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john /forum/post/15478540


The in-ceiling surround option can actually work pretty well. I have helped a couple of friends install in-ceiling surrounds with the Omnicans. I was surprised how well they worked. I think, if you use self-enclosed speakers and you deploy them optimally, they can work well.

Looks like I'll probably have to mix different manufacturer's for the front and surrounds, but I'm very happy with the advice you've given so far!

 

[craig john]

I've attached an edited version of your diagram showing how I would suggest you place the speakers, the seating and the position of the "sweet spot". This assumes the display will be centered in the entertainment center, and the L/R speakers will be on either side with the center above or below the display.


Craig

 

[jim425]

Thanks Craig!


I think I'll probably move the side surrounds back a little (to the "D" beam), which will give me a little more flexibility with placing the seating. I'm just doing a rough calculation on the screen size (the space available is ~95" x 57", which should allow around 100" or so of 16:9 screen), which should be a seating distance of 10-16 feet or so.


It sounds like I'll have to audition the Ascends, Axioms, Aperions, SVS's, and Def Techs, though, to really tell which makes sense for the room for the front speakers. I was hoping to also get some advice from people on which would not work for the space I'm trying to fill (i.e. the speaker would be too small).