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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been lurking around here for quite some time getting my brain filled up with information on projectors. I've never owned one and never liked rear projection television. There is so much information going on here about all the different projectors its making my head spin. I won't be ready for a new one until my house is built (with a dedicated HT room) in about 6 months.


If I were to buy one right now even though I like DLP the best I think my choice would have to be the LCD EPson TW100. I won't be using an HTPC so I like the Faroujda chip that is used inside of the projector to de-interlace ALL my video sources (DVD, VCR, XBOX, Satellite Dish). I also like that the projector is 16 x 9 native and has a pretty good resolution for HDTV sources for down the road. I have a totally darkened room so the contrast ratio should be ok. I considered the Piano 3200 but I want at least a 100" screen and have read that the Piano is better with a screen of 80" or less. My room is 13' x 20'.


The only negatives that I have come up with this projector are the following:


Price: A little pricey for an LCD but I'm willing to pay if it fits my needs. In 6 months the price of this should go down with all the competing ones such as the Z1, X1, AE200/300. I have seen it online a lot cheaper however. Also feel that if I were to pay this price now that in a couple years it will be worth the price of a doorstop :( because of the everchanging technology of these components.


LCD: I really like DLP but I feel that at this time you have to spend 2-3 times the price to get the performance that I'm looking for. Screendoor has me worried a little as I have not seen it for myself. I have not experienced the headaches or rainbows of DLP but then again I haven't spent much time looking at either display


Dead pixels: I'm under the impression that Epson projectors have a lot of machines out there that have this but yet they have the 'no dead pixel' policy? Can anyone confirm this?


Like I said, I won't be ready for another 6 months and by that time maybe there will be a few more DLP projectors to choose from under the $5000 price point that will take the cake. Has anyone compared this projector with the Sony HS-10? I was considering this projector as well but was told it had a long throw. would it still work in my 12.5' by 20' room? But the other negative of this projector was i've been told it is noisy. can't stand that!
 

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I've had an AE100, TW100 and now an AE300. I would find it very hard to justify the extra price over the AE300. Before the AE300 (or HS10) was available I would have been happy with the price, but not anymore. I drive my AE300 directly from an interlaced player and the quality is awsome - every bit as good as the TW100, if not better, since the shadow detail is definitely better and there is less screendoor. Someone at the Seatle (?)projector shootout actually sent their TW100 back and purchased the AE300 instead. To de-interlace your VHS and Satellite, you could probably use a cheap unit like the VB50 (someone in the US might be able to give you more info here).


Bottom line, if screendoor is a worry to you, go for the AE300 - it has NO screendoor (absolutely zero!) :)


ps. Epson evidently has different pixel policies in different countries, make sure you know exactly what you're getting before you hand over the money.
 

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Paradigm,


I know you aren't ready, yet, but if you were I would advise that you pick between the HT1000, AE300, and HS10. Actually, since you like DLP I would say there is no comparison, the HT1000 would be the right projector. I would place heavy money that if you saw the HT1000 next to the TW100 it wouldn't take you very long to pick the HT1000. Now if you said that you preferred LCDs, I wouldn't go that far. I just don't think the HT1000 and the TW100 are in the same category from what I've seen of them (and also read).


--Darin
 

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Xander,

Aside from the higher resolution and faroudja processing (though I know there were some problems with PAL), was there anything you liked better about the tw100? Just curious, I'm not thinking about getting a tw100 or anything like that.

Also, I thought you were one of the guys with an RP82, but I guess I got mixed up - you say you're using an interlaced dvd player. Have you tried a decent progressive scan player to see if that makes the picture even better, or are you having a hard time finding a decent one for PAL?


All the rest of you,

Xander's right, there's no screendoor to speak of on this unit! Frees you eyes up to look at other lcd flaws instead. :D Like the fixed pattern noise (not bad on the ae300, and not an issue for me) and the scanline artifacts (really bothered the hell outta me until the tweak to reduce them was discovered. now I can cope with them much much better). Awesome image overall!


Mike U.
 

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>>was there anything you liked better about the tw100?


TW100 vs AE300:


TW100

pros:

- higher resolution, but now that I've got a fairly sharp image on the AE300 I don't really miss it that much anymore. We don't have HD here.

- seems to be running a bit cooler (AE300 can double as a mini heater :))

- faroudja made TV input look nice (can use cheap VB50 with AE300?)

cons:

- expensive

- shadow area details (was murky without detail - tried to tweak)

- never liked the dust cover on bottom for ceiling mount (need to remove pj to clean)


AE300:

pros:

- cheap

- smooth creen technology

- excellent shadow details and contrast

- excellent picture out the box (very little tweaking required)

- no pixel problems :)

cons:

- lower resolution (although I'm not sure that this is an issue)


Overall I am very glad that I now have the AE300 at less than half the price of the TW100. If the TW100 comes down to the same price level as the AE300 or HS10 then it might be a good option.


ps. I have not been able to test a decent prog scan DVD player (don't even know where to find a PAL one in NZ) but I've got a pre-release BriteView (de-interlacer) that I'm getting the production release for in January that I will try. I'm still interested whether people see a real difference with the AE300 in interlaced vs prog scan. The new component cables made the biggest difference for me. Also, I must try to have a look at this HT1000...:)
 

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Paradigm, do you like the color black? Do you think that movies with scenes set at night should have black in them somewhere?


If so, I highly recommend that you demo an LCD projector before you purchase one.
 

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I've had the TW-100 for a few months and am happy. I went with it because I needed short throw, quiet, and wanted 16:9. I watch HD (Zenith 520), DSS, TiVo, and DVD (Denon 3800) on a 82" FireHawk.


Although I would have went with the HT1000 it was out because of it's long throw.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Xander: Thanks for your input! I hadn't considered the AE300, is it available yet? What is the resolution of it? My biggest reason for getting the tw100 was its scaler and its resolution and all the points made by the review at projectorcentral.com made it seem like it was the best choice for my money. The problem is front projectors are not in abundance around here so I basically have to go by this forum and buy unseen. Of course I would buy from a place that would take it back no questions asked.


Mulveling: scanline artifacts? what kind of tweak, in the service menu?


Josh: Yes, that is my other worry. I do like good black levels. Does the AE300 produce decent black levels? One other issue regarding this if I am watching 4:3 material am I going to have grey bars on the sides of the screen? Can it be masked somehow or a better greyscreen to make it closer to black?


Darinp: NEC HT1000 would probably have been my choice but I want a native 16:9 screen. Any word on them producing comparable to this with this aspect ratio?


Thanks for all the input guys
 

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>>I went with it because I needed short throw, quiet, and wanted 16:9.

The throw distance of the TW100 and AE300 are virtually the same, they are both 16:9 and the AE300 is more quiet. I believe that the AE300 also does a pretty decent job of HD.


>>Does the AE300 produce decent black levels

I believe it does a pretty good job considering it is an LCD - I have not felt the need for tweaking yet.


paradigm: right now you'd have to buy from our favorite Japanese vendor, although I believe it will be available in the US shortly.


checkout this thread for a summary of all the hot projector specs.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by paradigm
Darinp: NEC HT1000 would probably have been my choice but I want a native 16:9 screen. Any word on them producing comparable to this with this aspect ratio?
Paradigm,


The HT1000 was built so that you can use it with a 16x9 screen. All the menus and everything will be put in that space if you put it in that mode and I've heard that there isn't much light spillage around that. I think a lot of people have ruled it out because they want a 16x9 projector, but from what I've seen they do it at the expense of the best image for the money. I'm sure that there will be a 16x9 version and I hope it is soon. I may get one if they do it soon enough. However, you are looking in the wrong forum for that, as I would expect to pay about $7k. There is a new Yamaha coming out with similar specs to the HT1000, but with the 1280x720 chip. Alan said something about the price being 3 times the price of the HT1000. I would guess more like double.


John,


The HT1000 has a short throw than the TW100. You may have been thinking about the LT260.


--Darin
 

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Like darinp, I'd say look at the NEC HT1000, ae300 or sony HS10 before the TW100. I'd also say look at the Sanyo Z1 but the other 3 might be better for what you want.
 

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I am the 'Seattle' guy who returned the TW100 and purchased Darin's AE300. Here is why.

My cons:

TW100 has issues with bad vertical banding when using interlaced video.

TW100 is fairly noisy.

TW100 has too much screendoor at my close seating arrangement.

TW100 is really expensive given it's weakness' and lack of advanced features.

AE300 has really crappy lens offset.

AE300 looks cheap, feels cheap, but it is cheap!!

AE300 is low resolution.


My pros:

TW100 gives you full access to RGB gain/bias adjustments.

TW100 has nice lens offset.

TW100 is high resolution.

TW100 is a decent looking (case,etc) projector.

AE300 has Smooth Screen Technology.....and it works really well for my close seating arrangement.

AE300 has more convincing black levels and shadow detail.

AE300 is less than half the price of the TW100

AE300 is very quiet.

AE300 hooked up to my RP82 player is a very simple setup and looks really nice.


Since I am not watching HD, the high rez panels (of the TW100) are of no benefit to me. I feel that the AE300 is one the best 'bang-for-the-buck' units out there if you are not doing HD. HD on a 720 or 768 panel looks really nice.


Don't be discouraged by my opinions, as they are only opinions. But I will recommend that you view all/most of the PJ's on your list. When I bought my TW100, I wasn't even considering the AE300..........but after seeing it, my pros/cons list changed a bit.


Just my opinions.

Jason

Everett, WA
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I'm even more discouraged especially since the local HT shops don't have all these projectors that I'm shopping for.


Jason: You say the fan is noisy on the TW100. This is the first I've read that. Would you say it is as loud as a computer fan then?

How close are you sitting to the screen when watching the TW100?

How is it that interlaced video had problems when it has the Faroujda chip?


Sorry for all the questions. Is it possible you had a bad unit? After reading your pros/cons list I would of thought I would see the reason why the AE300 was a better unit??? The price doesn't bother me because I value the performance first and cost second however I'm not willing to pay over $5000 for an everchanging technology. I've never actually seen screendoor effect so this must be a big issue. How much better are the blacks and shadow detail of the AE300 versus the TW100? Did you tweak the TW100 at all with AVIA/Video Essentials?

My biggest beef with the AE300 is the resolution. I want the higher resolution for HD sources. I also want my regular interlaced signals to look watchable and read that the faroujda chip did a good job on interlaced signals on all video sources.


Anyways, I appreciate your opinion.. that is why I am here.
 

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There is a lot of talk about the new Infocus X1 projector. It is a 800x600 DLP with excellent blacks and contrast. Check different threads for it. Some people are sensitive for rainbows on DLP so I suggest you demo it. Otherwise there are some good suggestions in the thread on LCD projectors. F.e. the new Sony HS10 is pretty cheap and has very good resolution.


Anyway, if you have already decided for the TW100 its not a bad choice. But if your not rich, don't rush a projector buy. Have patience and decide whats best for you.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by paradigm
How is it that interlaced video had problems when it has the Faroujda chip?


Sorry for all the questions. Is it possible you had a bad unit?
The TW100's vertical banding problem has been confirmed by a couple of different sources, unfortunately. Just having a Faroudja chip means nothing if it isn't implemented properly.
 

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Wonderful machine.....and dead pixel policy in USA is Zero!
 

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Paradigm,


Are you willing to buy from overseas? If you are going to upgrade within a year anyway then the 1 year warranty may be good enough. I don't think most of the longer term warrantees are transferable anyway. If you are, then you may get a 1280x720 DLP under $5k by the time you are ready. There is an offer on the classifieds from a foreign forum sponser for the new Japanese version of Sharp 10000 for $6650. They also change the menus to English. By the time you are ready maybe this or the Toshiba MT8 will be done to your price range. These are in a whole different league than the TW100, IMO.


Most of what you have been saying seems to say that you would be happiest with DLP. If you aren't prone to seeing rainbows then how about an X1 for about $1500 soon and then buy something nicer when the higher end prices come down?


Actually, I just realized something. Since you're in Vegas, just go check out all these projectors at CES the 2nd week in January.


--Darin
 

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Just what it sounds like, the image has vertical bands across the entire image. My TW100 has them as well but they are exceedingly faint and I really have to look for the phenomenon to see it. I also think the problem has lessened since I got it (?) but of course that may just be familiarity with the image it produces now.


As for noise, its entirely possible the TW100 is noisier than the AE300, but it is by no means loud. The number is about 30db which doesn't bother me in the least even in very quiet dialogue-driven scenes, just a faint hum that I for one completely disregard.


As for screendoor, again I don't have that problem. I sit about 3.5-4 meters from a 2 meter screen and think the image is very smooth and watchable. I use a plain interlaced DVD player via s-video and am very happy... will probably go to component cable eventually but am in no rush whatsoever because I think the image is superb as-is.


I haven't seen the AE300, but it sounds like a great machine, but let's not count the TW100 out especially for folks who want a HDTV-capable machine.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by paradigm
1. I'm even more discouraged especially since the local HT shops don't have all these projectors that I'm shopping for.

2. You say the fan is noisy on the TW100. This is the first I've read that. Would you say it is as loud as a computer fan then?

3. How close are you sitting to the screen when watching the TW100?

4. How is it that interlaced video had problems when it has the Faroujda chip?

5. The price doesn't bother me because I value the performance first and cost second however I'm not willing to pay over $5000 for an everchanging technology.

6. I've never actually seen screendoor effect so this must be a big issue. How much better are the blacks and shadow detail of the AE300 versus the TW100?

7. Did you tweak the TW100 at all with AVIA/Video Essentials?

8. My biggest beef with the AE300 is the resolution. I want the higher resolution for HD sources. I also want my regular interlaced signals to look watchable and read that the faroujda chip did a good job on interlaced signals on all video sources.
Paradigm.


1. Don't get discouraged. Todays projectors are really nice!! I am sure what ever you get, you will be very pleased with.


2. Sorry, I should have said that the TW100 fan is louder than the AE300.


3. It varies. As close as 1x. As far as 2x.


4. Be cautious of buying based on "Faroudja Processing". That is one of the reasons why I too purchased the TW100. The deinterlacing done by my DVD player was much better than by the PJ. Just poor implementation by Epson.


5. Same here.


6. To me, the blacklevel and shadow detail of the AE300 made movies more convincing and enjoyable. I was never bugged by screendoor....but to watch a few movies without it......


7. Actually, the TW100 was about 80% Colorfacts calibrated. The AE300 was using it's factory settings during my comparisons. My AE300 is now Avia calabrated.


8. If you are buying a PJ for HD, then you will appreciate the higher resolution PJ's. If I was you, I would try to get a demo of the Sony HS10 before making up your mind. Try doing some searches for "TW100" and "vertical banding" or "bleeding".


Check out my attached image. This is my TW100, component input, RP62 DVD player. The top image is deinterlacing done by the DVD player, the bottom image is deinterlacing done by the TW100. Again, Epson missed something during their setup of the Faroudja processor.


Later

Jason


Looks like I cannot attach a file to a "quote". The attachment ended up on the next page.....figures!
 
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