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I am interested to obtain samples for Darkstar, very few reviews of that screen for some reason. I only used Elite Cinegrey 5D and it did not impress me a tiny bit. Darkstar is a different screen vs. Cinegrey. Seymour AV also has only one review. Very interested in your opinion of Darkstar? Can you please PM me the price points for Darkstar, from what I found looks like Darkstar is more money than Seymour AV 1.3

I do like gain to be around 1.3-1.4



I've got a bunch of screen samples as well. My favorites so far are the DNP .8 and the DNP 2.3, but I'm looking for something in the 1.2-1.4 gain range for an ambient light screen. I wish DNP had one. However, so far, my favorite in that gain range is the Elite Screens Darkstar. You mentioned that none of the Elite screens passed your tests. Have you tested the Darkstar? If so, I'm curious to discuss your findings.

I'm currently waiting for Mike, from AVS, to send me the Ambient-Visionaire samples. Hopefully, I will see them soon...

Thanks,
Dave
 

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I do not have samples of DNP and as far as I know they do not have gain around 1.3. I prefer that type of gain for my D-ILA. I was just reminded of Darkstar, that is the one to check out, but Elite does not provide samples free of charge. Waiting to get a larger sample of AV 1.3.


Thanks for the insight, very helpful. Don't think I'll get the MB. Have you compared the AV1.3 to DNP's screen?
 

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I do not have samples of DNP and as far as I know they do not have gain around 1.3. I prefer that type of gain for my D-ILA. I was just reminded of Darkstar, that is the one to check out, but Elite does not provide samples free of charge. Waiting to get a larger sample of AV 1.3.
You are correct, DNP does not have gain around 1.3, which is also what I would like to have. I received a free sample of the Darkstar from Elite screens - not sure why you could not? If/when you do get a sample, please let me know, since I believe their samples to be misleading.

Dave
 

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I will try to order Darkstark (for $ three grand for Darkstar it needs to distort reality to be that good :) ) Finally, Seymour is sending me Ambient Visionary 1.3 in the larger 8.5"x11 sample, I will now have my preferred ones on the wall in good sizes:
Dalite HD Pro 1.1 and 1.3, and now 0.9
Seymour AV 1.3
Darkstar? maybe

I removed from the wall Stewart FH4G, Cinegrey 5D, Diamond Black, Seymour Matinee. These are clear losers to my eyes. All have uniformity issues in my setup and strong color shift...

I know HD Pro is not really a light rejecting screen per se but I might admit these materials in these 12x12 samples do look mighty fine to me, in fact shockingly 0.9 looks best on the wall right now in terms of color accuracy and overall balance, it may not have the "pop" but it is not dark either.

You are correct, DNP does not have gain around 1.3, which is also what I would like to have. I received a free sample of the Darkstar from Elite screens - not sure why you could not? If/when you do get a sample, please let me know, since I believe their samples to be misleading.

Dave
 

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Just received my samples of 1.2 and 1.3 Seymour AV screens - approximately 8 1/2" X 11" size. First impression - very easy to scratch, which is not good. The Elite Screens Darkstar 1.4, like the DNP screens, is very scratch resistant.

Will take a look at the samples later this week or this weekend.

Dave
 

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I tried AV 1.3 sample against my Hi Power 2.8 screen and found two issues with it:

1. Shimmer is killing it for me. In my set up, it's almost like looking at wrinkled aluminium foil. I'm only 12ft away and have nearly perfect vision (I clearly see pixels in 1080p at 100" screen). My wife does not see it most of the time, but when she sees it, it takes away too much to deal with it. Also, the shimmer seems to kill resolution - when it starts shimmering, small detail is lost completely. So as much as I wanted to like this screen, it will probably not work.

2. The light cone is too wide for my needs. This material sends a lot of light to the sides, which I'm afraid will create too much ambient light in my set up. Should be ok for bigger rooms, but for my set up with 3 seats 12 ft away from a 100" screen it's not the best fit.

On the flip side, blacks were MUCH improved compared to Hi Power. To the point that I started enjoying hi power less (it's damaged, so I need to replace it anyway).

So now I'm looking for a different material. Something possibly with narrower cone, maybe even retroreflective, with high resolution (very fine texture), with darker background compared to high power, and some ambient light rejection. Any thoughts on this? Maybe darkstar?
 

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Just received my samples of 1.2 and 1.3 Seymour AV screens - approximately 8 1/2" X 11" size. First impression - very easy to scratch, which is not good. The Elite Screens Darkstar 1.4, like the DNP screens, is very scratch resistant.

Will take a look at the samples later this week or this weekend.

Dave

Well, I just did some more sample testing. I did not like the 1.3 at all. I liked the Seymour AV 1.2 much better. True, it does have dropoff at an angle. The 1.3 looked more like the white screen we have on the wall, which isn't a compliment in ambient light. The 1.2 looks sharper than the 1.3.

As good as the 1.2 Seymour AV looked, the Darkstar is even better. A touch better blacks, brighter whites, better off-angle, and it's even sharper than the 1.2 Seymour AV. I am thoroughly impressed with the Darkstar!

The only thing that competes with the Darkstar is the DNP screens. The 2.3 DNP is mesmerizing with its brightness. However, the blacks just don't compare and it's not as sharp. The .8 DNP has always been a favorite of mine in the dark, however, the Darkstar's blacks are really close (nearly the same), and the whites are much brighter. The Darkstar definitely has more contrast. I've always thought that if DNP made a 1.3-1.5 gain screen (sweet spot between the .8 and the 2.3), they'd have a winner. I think the Darkstar is it. I was really surprised that the blacks were that close between the DNP .8 and the Darkstar.

For me, if I had to pick one screen to live with to use as a full time TV, it would either be the Darkstar or the DNP 2.3. Again, the 2.3 dazzles with its brightness, but the Darkstar is better overall.

For anyone getting a Darkstar sample, you will need to make sure it is oriented correctly. The sample has a label on top, so it seems like it should be positioned that way. If you do that, then like me, you'll see that the off-angle is absolutely horrible. It doesn't just drop off, it goes completely black. The sample needs to be turned on its side to get the correct results. I've told Elite screens that they need to fix this with their samples, but I'm not sure if they will. Elite screens said to shine a flashlight from the top of the sample (going down the sample). If the beam of light shines all the way down the sample (like it did for me with the label on top), then it's not correct. If the sample swallows up the beam of light (sample on its side, in my case), then it's correct.

Unfortunately, I believe that the accucalhd.com website may have had the sample oriented the wrong way, which is why the Darkstar's results were skewed...


Dave
 

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Thinking of the DarkStar.. 16 degrees vertical halfgain you're down to 0,7 if ceilingmounted and 1,1 if your sofa is 4 seats wide

Comparing blacks, how is the AV 1,2 compared to DNP 0,8? The 2,3 is like sparklemania for me..
 

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Well, I just did some more sample testing. I did not like the 1.3 at all. I liked the Seymour AV 1.2 much better. True, it does have dropoff at an angle. The 1.3 looked more like the white screen we have on the wall, which isn't a compliment in ambient light. The 1.2 looks sharper than the 1.3.

As good as the 1.2 Seymour AV looked, the Darkstar is even better. A touch better blacks, brighter whites, better off-angle, and it's even sharper than the 1.2 Seymour AV. I am thoroughly impressed with the Darkstar!

The only thing that competes with the Darkstar is the DNP screens. The 2.3 DNP is mesmerizing with its brightness. However, the blacks just don't compare and it's not as sharp. The .8 DNP has always been a favorite of mine in the dark, however, the Darkstar's blacks are really close (nearly the same), and the whites are much brighter. The Darkstar definitely has more contrast. I've always thought that if DNP made a 1.3-1.5 gain screen (sweet spot between the .8 and the 2.3), they'd have a winner. I think the Darkstar is it. I was really surprised that the blacks were that close between the DNP .8 and the Darkstar.

For me, if I had to pick one screen to live with to use as a full time TV, it would either be the Darkstar or the DNP 2.3. Again, the 2.3 dazzles with its brightness, but the Darkstar is better overall.

For anyone getting a Darkstar sample, you will need to make sure it is oriented correctly. The sample has a label on top, so it seems like it should be positioned that way. If you do that, then like me, you'll see that the off-angle is absolutely horrible. It doesn't just drop off, it goes completely black. The sample needs to be turned on its side to get the correct results. I've told Elite screens that they need to fix this with their samples, but I'm not sure if they will. Elite screens said to shine a flashlight from the top of the sample (going down the sample). If the beam of light shines all the way down the sample (like it did for me with the label on top), then it's not correct. If the sample swallows up the beam of light (sample on its side, in my case), then it's correct.

Unfortunately, I believe that the accucalhd.com website may have had the sample oriented the wrong way, which is why the Darkstar's results were skewed...


Dave
I thought you were wanting an ambient light rejecting electric screen?
 

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I tried AV 1.3 sample against my Hi Power 2.8 screen and found two issues with it:

1. Shimmer is killing it for me. In my set up, it's almost like looking at wrinkled aluminium foil. I'm only 12ft away and have nearly perfect vision (I clearly see pixels in 1080p at 100" screen). My wife does not see it most of the time, but when she sees it, it takes away too much to deal with it. Also, the shimmer seems to kill resolution - when it starts shimmering, small detail is lost completely. So as much as I wanted to like this screen, it will probably not work.
that's a shame regarding the AV 1.3. I thought that may be the one to get. I'm worried the DNP 08-08 is not going to be bright enough and the 23-23 is going to sparkle too much. Hope Elite Screen Darkstar is the answer.
 

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Well, I just did some more sample testing. I did not like the 1.3 at all. I liked the Seymour AV 1.2 much better. True, it does have dropoff at an angle. The 1.3 looked more like the white screen we have on the wall, which isn't a compliment in ambient light. The 1.2 looks sharper than the 1.3.

As good as the 1.2 Seymour AV looked, the Darkstar is even better. A touch better blacks, brighter whites, better off-angle, and it's even sharper than the 1.2 Seymour AV. I am thoroughly impressed with the Darkstar!

The only thing that competes with the Darkstar is the DNP screens. The 2.3 DNP is mesmerizing with its brightness. However, the blacks just don't compare and it's not as sharp. The .8 DNP has always been a favorite of mine in the dark, however, the Darkstar's blacks are really close (nearly the same), and the whites are much brighter. The Darkstar definitely has more contrast. I've always thought that if DNP made a 1.3-1.5 gain screen (sweet spot between the .8 and the 2.3), they'd have a winner. I think the Darkstar is it. I was really surprised that the blacks were that close between the DNP .8 and the Darkstar.

For me, if I had to pick one screen to live with to use as a full time TV, it would either be the Darkstar or the DNP 2.3. Again, the 2.3 dazzles with its brightness, but the Darkstar is better overall.

For anyone getting a Darkstar sample, you will need to make sure it is oriented correctly. The sample has a label on top, so it seems like it should be positioned that way. If you do that, then like me, you'll see that the off-angle is absolutely horrible. It doesn't just drop off, it goes completely black. The sample needs to be turned on its side to get the correct results. I've told Elite screens that they need to fix this with their samples, but I'm not sure if they will. Elite screens said to shine a flashlight from the top of the sample (going down the sample). If the beam of light shines all the way down the sample (like it did for me with the label on top), then it's not correct. If the sample swallows up the beam of light (sample on its side, in my case), then it's correct.

Unfortunately, I believe that the accucalhd.com website may have had the sample oriented the wrong way, which is why the Darkstar's results were skewed...


Dave
Thanks for the review. I was also disappointed with AV 1.3. How did you get the sample of Darkstar? Sounds like something I should definitely try.
 

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I thought you were wanting an ambient light rejecting electric screen?
If I go with a TV for day time and a projector for evening/night use, then yes, I would want an ambient light rejecting electric screen. I would most likely choose the DNP .8 in that case. The Seymour AV 1.2 is actually really nice for this application, but it scratches so easily. I can't imagine this thing not getting scratches when rolling and unrolling repeatedly. As of today, the Darkstar is not available in an electric screen, but that may change over the next 12 months I'm told.

If, however, I decide on a projector/screen to use both day/night, then I want a fixed ambient light screen. The best one for that application (that also hits the sweet spot for gain) is the Darkstar 1.4.

Have you seen the Darkstar 1.4 Mike? Are you able to sell those?


Dave
 

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Thanks for the review. I was also disappointed with AV 1.3. How did you get the sample of Darkstar? Sounds like something I should definitely try.
Contact Jeff Klida of epvscreens dot com. If you go to that website, click "Contact Sales Rep" under the "Where to Buy" selection. You'll find the contact info there.

Thanks,
Dave
 

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If I go with a TV for day time and a projector for evening/night use, then yes, I would want an ambient light rejecting electric screen. I would most likely choose the DNP .8 in that case. The Seymour AV 1.2 is actually really nice for this application, but it scratches so easily. I can't imagine this thing not getting scratches when rolling and unrolling repeatedly. As of today, the Darkstar is not available in an electric screen, but that may change over the next 12 months I'm told.

If, however, I decide on a projector/screen to use both day/night, then I want a fixed ambient light screen. The best one for that application (that also hits the sweet spot for gain) is the Darkstar 1.4.

Have you seen the Darkstar 1.4 Mike? Are you able to sell those?


Dave
Yes, able to sell Darkstar, but have not seen that screen. Will check it out though.
 

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I do not find AV 1.3 screen PQ too terrible, but I completely agree, Seymour AV1.3 is far far too easy to scratch, to the point, that one needs to handle it like it is uncured paint. Even for a fixed screen that is a huge problem if you are to move once or twice or sell it later.

Accucalhd testing may give AV1.3 top ranking for color accuracy, I do not agree, I still see shift to Blue with that screen when comparing AV1.3 to Dalite HD Pro JKP 1.1 and Dalite HD Pro JKP 0.9 right now and HD Pro 0.9 is the most color accurate with 1.1 not that far off. Dalite HD Pro 1.3 on the other hand is not great at all.

Curious about Darkstar as well but placement rules are unclear to me. Can someone explain to me 5% limiting issue?





I The Seymour AV 1.2 is actually really nice for this application, but it scratches so easily.

If, however, I decide on a projector/screen to use both day/night, then I want a fixed ambient light screen. The best one for that application (that also hits the sweet spot for gain) is the Darkstar 1.4.

Have you seen the Darkstar 1.4 Mike? Are you able to sell those?


Dave
 

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Curious about Darkstar as well but placement rules are unclear to me. Can someone explain to me 5% limiting issue?
The Darkstar is a retro-reflective screen, instead of an angular-reflective screen. A retroreflective screen typically needs the projector to be more straight on with the middle of the screen. I was ready to discount the Darkstar, for that reason, until I found out about the 5%. With the Darkstar, the projector "can" be aligned with the top of the screen (instead of the middle of the screen). In fact, it can be an extra 5% above the screen.

For example, if getting the 110" Darkstar 1.4 screen, the height of the screen will be 54". Take 5% of 54", and you have 2.7". That means the projector can be aligned 2.7" above the top of the screen. It can also be 2.7" below the top of the screen.

For me, aligning the projector with the middle of the screen would never work, with a ceiling hung projector, but near or above the top of the screen will work just fine.

Dave
 

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Well.. I would say the 5% depends on the angles. 5% with longthrow would work as with the Da-lite High Power but if you have a short throw PJ and if you sit under it you'll exceed the 16 deg angle....
 

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That I agree with 100%, Dalite HD Pro 1.1 for 50% of the cost does similar picture but with less bluish tint and Dalite Pro HD is not even a light rejection screen.

it's just that it's only slightly better in ambient light than a typical white screen. If one needs an ambient light screen, there are better options.

Dave
 

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Thank you for the very useful post. It clarifies it. My JVC's lens center sits 28" from floor on a table. Distance from PJ's lens to screen is 141". Looks like then Darkstar will not work, because lower end of the 106" 16:9 screen will be approximately 12"-14" from the floor? Is my math correct?

The Darkstar is a retro-reflective screen, instead of an angular-reflective screen. A retroreflective screen typically needs the projector to be more straight on with the middle of the screen. I was ready to discount the Darkstar, for that reason, until I found out about the 5%. With the Darkstar, the projector "can" be aligned with the top of the screen (instead of the middle of the screen). In fact, it can be an extra 5% above the screen.

For example, if getting the 110" Darkstar 1.4 screen, the height of the screen will be 54". Take 5% of 54", and you have 2.7". That means the projector can be aligned 2.7" above the top of the screen. It can also be 2.7" below the top of the screen.

For me, aligning the projector with the middle of the screen would never work, with a ceiling hung projector, but near or above the top of the screen will work just fine.

Dave
 
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