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Discussion Starter #1
Hey All well I have my screen and projector finally mounted but need your help. I have a Sharp 10k combined with Da-Lite High Power 105. I am using a Sony 300 disc changer connected via Component Interlaced. For cable I am using three 50 RG6 Coax cables terminated with RCA ends.


So here is the question my picture looks fantastic minus one thing. I am seeing some kind of ghosting or halos or I dont know what you call it. When pulling up a color bar test in VE or DVE I see nice sharp lines between each color but next to it I see a faint edge about two or so inches next to it (very Hard to explain).


I am hoping this picture will explain.


Thanks for you help in advance.


Jerry
 

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Discussion Starter #3
my first screen shot. No my camera was not level sorry. i was hand holding it. Yes I am still tweeking my colors. I just started.


But I will take ANY suggestions or comments good or bad.


you can see the ghosting ot line in bewteen green and magenta.
 

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Check the seating of the RCA connectors very carefully. If one of them has worked loose, it can cause this kind of bleeding or smearing. If the outer ring of the RCA connector (the shielding) isn't secure but the central pin (the signal) is in contact, you get what looks like color-bleed or ghosting.


If all the cables are completely secure and tightly plugged in at both ends, then there may be a problem with the shielding of the cables themselves.


Try this experiment: Move your DVD player close to the projector and connect it with a set of short (like 6 foot), good quality cables. If the ghosting/smearing/bleeding goes away...you know you've got cable problems.


You don't have to spend a fortune for cables of 50 feet length, but at that length you should use component cable that is constructed from three separate RG6 cables or the equivalent, as you say you've done. But if you terminated those yourself, or used "plain old" RG6 from the parts bin, they may not be up to the task. Take a look at BlueJeansCable.com or BetterCable.com and figure on spending a couple hundred $U.S. Compared to what you've already spent to create and project a great picture, it's not too much to spend to transmit the picture.

-H.
 

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Consider upgrading your cable. I had a hand created RG6 based set of RGBHV cables I had been using for my CRT projector. When I changed over to my Sharp 10k, I reused them and was really unhappy with the clarity. Granted, I had a 25' run, but still. Electrically & mechanically, the connections were good (I make a lot of cables and do a fair amount of testing, so I have at least some confidence in them).


I went to BetterCables.com and got the silver serpent reference line. The result was really, really remarkable (like night and day). It hurt to pay for those cables, but again, the result was spectacular.


On the shorter cable runs, consider higher quality cables too. Originally, I had my Sony 300 DVD player going to my 10k over that BetterCables cable and was thrilled. Then I added a HD cable box and wanted my pre-amp (a Rotel 1066) to switch the component (I didn't want to run two component cables to the projector).


Running the DVD player into the preamp and then to the projector created quite a noticeable degradation of the signal I put the fault on my preamp, but everyone I talked to said that Rotel component switching was very good and shouldn't introduce any artifacts. Then they suggested the cables might be at fault.


I scoffed at that - I had 1m/3' monster component cables from the player to the preamp - there was no way such a short run with a reasonable (though not great) cable brand could cause this. But, after two weeks of trying, I finally decided to test this out and ordered a 1m/3' silverserpent from bettercables.


Well, as you are probably already suspecting, all the noise and crap in my picture went right away. In fact, with the signal going from the DVD player to the prre-amp and then the projector I could not see any diff in picture vs a straight DVD->Projector run.


I am *not* a fan of expensive cables. I honestly think that for regular audio signals, a reasonably good cable is more than enough. For speakers, 12 gauge stranded copper is fine. At the very low frequencies audio operates on (relative to video), these are more than fine and all the extra stuff is, IMHO, a waste.


But I am now a believer on using quality video interconnects - especially when routing HDTV class signals around. BetterCables was a good company to deal with and their reference line are pretty nice. You may get the same from a less expensive cable and it's probably worth checking it out. For me, since things were so bad, I decided to start "at the top" and once the result was so great, I didn't want to risk going back :)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Darn Just when i thought the spending was over. I just spent $130 for a Monster 50' S-video for DSS. Now I gotta but more cable.


Hey I do appriciated the advice. I will check those sites out and begin my shopping.


Jerry
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hey one more quick question. My wires going to the projector are passing right next to my Sunfire Sub. This sub is NOT sheilded and has somthing like a 48 lb magnet. I cant get it within 3 feet of my big screen or it screws up the picture big time. Could magnetet interfierence cause this ghosting??


Thanks

Jerry
 

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looks like an edge sharpening artifact. Try adjusting the sharpening on your source component or your PJ and see if it helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I did try adjusting the sharpness. No luck there.


The one thing I have noticed is that the edge problem is much worse on Digital Video Essentials versus Avia.


Jerry
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I did try adjusting the sharpness. No luck there.


The one thing I have noticed is that the edge problem is much worse on Digital Video Essentials versus Avia.


Jerry
 

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One thing to consider - many of the "higher end" cable companies have pretty reasonable return policies. If you can afford it, buy what you think is bet and try it. If there is no change (or a minor one), you can generally return it. If it boosts it a lot, you'll probably want to hang on to it. I had very good luck with BetterCables with returns for cables that I didn't need (I ordered an Svideo, Component and Composite and later determined I really didn't need/want a composite run to my projector).
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Horta
Hey one more quick question. My wires going to the projector are passing right next to my Sunfire Sub. This sub is NOT sheilded and has somthing like a 48 lb magnet. I cant get it within 3 feet of my big screen or it screws up the picture big time. Could magnetet interfierence cause this ghosting??


Thanks

Jerry
That could be a factor, depending on what "right next to" means in distance from the sub's magnet and electronics. My component cables pass about 1 foot from the back of my Revel sub (110 pounds of box and magnet!) and I see no ill effects, but your situation may be different. You can easily experiment by disconnecting and moving the sub away from your cables while you view the screen. It'll either make a difference or won't. If it does make a difference, you may not have to move the sub very far, since I think the magnetic field strength decreaes as the cube of the distance.


Again, good cables with impeccable shielding may well reduce any interference danger from the sub.

-H.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well I looked at the cables and wow they are pricy. I going to try to move my sub tonight. The cables are now passing right over it and touching my Sunfire. I have not yet pulled my wallunit forward and cleanly run all my new wires.


I just put my sub on the left side of the wall unit some months ago so worse case I can move it back on the other side. I no longer have any VHS tape so it not being sheilded is not an issue.


I do think the magnet may be an issue because I have noticed on several occasions that when the bass pounds really hard I see screen full of horizontal lines on the screen. They are very faint and only apperar when theres a big explosion or somthing. I'm truly hoping it Magnetic interfeirence. Other than this cable ghosting thing I could not ask for a better picture!!


Jerry
 

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This is an issue with the DVD itself, not your setup. I'm running my Radeon 7500-based HTPC to my Sharp 12K via DVI at 1280x720 and see the exact same thing on DVE and Avia, while PC-generated test patterns are perfectly clear.


While I've noticed a bit of ringing on the Sharp when I switch the input mode from PC to video, using PC mode results in a clean, ring-free image.


I wouldn't bother with the expensive cables.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Horta
Well I looked at the cables and wow they are pricy.
Yeah, but remember that if they don't solve the problem, you can return them.


If you move the cables and that doesn't solve the problem, I'd strongly suggest considering it. Worst case, you'll be out shipping and confirm that it's not your cable run. Best case your picture will undergo a big improvement (and then your stuck trying to decide if it makes more sense to keep them).


Seriously, with component/HDTV video cables and runs over 2m, the quality of the cable can matter a lot. And unlike high end speakers where you need an oscope to see any difference, this is something that will be very, very obvious to you (if it is really fixing your problem). There is no subtlety to it. If you try a highend cable and do not see a very obvious change, then it's probably not your cabling and you can return the high end cable.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by thirdkind
Last I checked, expensive cables don't fix problems with the source.
Well, I agree and never beleive I suggested otherwise.


The only reason I've been posting about this is I had nearly the exact same thing happen to me when I converted over to my 10k. In my case, it turned out to be cables and the change was dramatic. So I'm offering that up as an option.


I've not seen anything in this thread that indicates Horta suspects a source issue, so I'm not quite sure why you posted this. But the point is valid - you have to rule out each part of the chain. Good (not necessarily expensive) cables are a way to rule out one part of it (if you don't have any other way to figure it out).
 

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At the risk of being a nag...


Horta, try the experiment I suggested earlier: Move your DVD as close to your projector as possible and connect it with short (

-H.


PS: I, too, had problems very similar to your pictures and, like duprey, it turned out to be in my cable--a loose connection in a good cable in my case. Hence my advice.
 

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gduprey, sorry if my post was inflammatory.


Seriously, I doubt this is a cable issue. Having used VE and DVE on my HTPC and LG DVD player--both connected to my 12K via a high quality 6' DVI cable and set to 1:1 pixel mapping at 1280x720--I can tell you that the source is the culprit. DVI can fall victim to certain digital artifacts, especially over long cable runs, but it certainly isn't susceptible to ghosting or ringing when set to the native rate of the display device and the display device truly passes the signal unprocessed.


When connecting analog sources, the Sharp does employ edge enhancement to a degree, but this can be mitigated with the sharpness control. Since Horta has already tried that and it didn't fix the problem, I'm convinced that this is just the poor quality of the test pattern being revealed by a high quality display. As he said, the same pattern in Avia looks better. No reason for the same test pattern to look better unless there's a difference between the quality of the program material itself.


If he can return the new cables at no cost, he can certainly try them out. I don't think he'll find that it fixes the issue.


Honestly Horta, I think you should invest in a cheap DVI player capable of upscaling to 720p along with a decent 6' DVI cable. It's not a 300 disc changer, but if you spend that much on a projector, you should pair it up with a source of similar capability. Just don't be surprised when you see the same issues :)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Hey All


Well I have been playing around with my 10k. I must say yes this ghosting thing is weird but I have an Amazing Picture when watching a regular movie and not using test patterns. I have notice the ghosting lines do become more or less obvious depending if I am using VE or DVE or Avia. Sometime more prevalent sometimes not. I do also see them when I pull up the THX Optimode test. I do believe this issue has to be impeding my PQ somewhat but like I said when watching a movie PQ is awesome.


I did find out my Sunfire Sub was totally the cause for the full screen with of faint horizontal lines on my screen. I was noticing the lines but then realized it was ONLY when the sub really hit. SO last night I just pulled the cables Off and away from the sub and the little faint line were no longer there when I played back the same scene. Very cool. This weekend I will relocated my Sub to the other side of the wall unit. No I'm wondering if the magnetic interference could be the cause of some of the weird ghosting I'm seeing.


I 'll now more this weekend.


Thank you all so far for your ideas and suggestions. AVS is a true asset to this crazy, expensive, time consuming hobby of ours!


Jerry
 
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