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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone,

I've been reading this forum voraciously for the past eight months or so learning about FP and the different options out there. After researching many models I thought I had found the best projector for me: The Sharp XVZ-9000U. I even managed to demo one locally and thought it was great...


but upon learning of the new sales policy that prevents internet sales and forces consumers to go to local dealers, I think I will look elsewhere for my ideal projector or wait for the Next Big Thing. Nevermind the fact that boutique HT shops are almost always more expensive than internet dealers, it's just the principle of the matter! I would at least like the choice to use an internet seller such as AVS or any other since there are so few local area retail establishments that are competent in the HT front projection market! I'm sure that's true for many of us outside of the major metropolitan areas...


BTW, this is a fantastic forum. Thanks to everyone for how much I've been able to learn here.


:KenCave
 

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Sharp is making enemies with this policy. By next summer there will be several new projectors with the 720P TI chip used by the Sharp, but I doubt that Infocus and others will be as asinine in marketing their products. They will also have a chance to analyze the pluses and minuses of the Sharp and tweak their products to match or surpass it, at a street price probably thousands less.


Mike
 

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For anyone that is ready to buy now, check these listings:
Sharp 9000
 

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Here in Switzerland the situation is the same!

Sharp won't be shipping the XVZ-9000E to dealers that don't respect their price policy.


There is a workaround for customers willing to buy additional stuff like screens,dvd-player ............with the same dealer.


Although I didn't get a good pricing for the Sharp, I'm getting back the money with discounts on the other products.


But this is definitely not the right approach....... :mad:



Anthony
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by KenCave
I even managed to demo one locally and thought it was great...
Ben,


people who "audition stuff locally" (i.e. cause expenses) and then buy them from the Internet (i.e. don't pay for the expenses) is probably just the reason Sharp is doing things like this to protect it's reseller chain.


Think about it. Do you really think it is fair to use somebody's resources and then say adios and buy them from some shop that has no storefront, no storage, no staff, no support and minimal expenses?


I don't mean to offend so please don't take this the wrong way - I also find it abominable that the price here in Finland is so steep, but at least I can demo it locally :)


sincerely,

Halcy


PS If companies didn't protect brick & mortar stores pretty soon we'd be buying all our stuff on the Internet and nobody would be able to demo anything locally :)
 

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I agree with Halcy. I bought my 9000 from my local dealer - Sound Forum in Algonquin, IL. I have purchased the majority of my HT equipment from them. Over the years I have built a relationship with the owner and get both the benefit of his knowledge/experience and a fair price on everything I buy from him. The prices are not as good as I might get elsewhere. I prefer to do business with someone I trust when it comes to complex products like HT gear. I have written off other B&Ms for poor customer support or hardline prices. Having found a reputable business, I prefer to continue to purchase from them as long as they provide a good service and a fair price. They go through expense to have the equipment and location to perform a demo. Sharp does not pay them to demo their product. They sell them a product to resell at a profit. Instead of going to a business you despise solely to demo a product, try to find one you can cultivate a relationship with over time.
 

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Nice point about traditional store sales however I went to 6th Ave. Electronics the other day and saw the Sony 10HT in action. When I asked the sales person about the price I expected to hear $5500 dollars but nearly hit the floor when he said $8000.


Also, you would expect the sales person to have some expert knowledge but I found that my knowledge about projectors in general was better than his. These stores need to at least get into the ballpark with their prices especially on an outdated projector like the 10HT and have knowledgeable sales people who provide a value added service for the additional cost.
 

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While I understand the concern for the bricks and mortar suppliers, I think companies like Sharp, Sony and Sanyo need to realize that if they want their customers to agree to use these guys then major changes are needed. Dealers like the kind Bruce talks about are rare in my opinion.


From my experience most projector dealers do most of their business with corporate customers. They don't have the knowledge or desire to bother with the home user. They will sell to an individual, but usually at or near list price. This results in paying thousands more for a projector. Making matters worse, many of these guys have next to no knowldedge of home theatre. I had to explain to one of their "experts" that progressive scan was not the same as component video input. Their "value add" seems to be issuing warnings that you will have big trouble with warranty support if you don't buy from them. I might agree to pay 10% more for this peace of mind, but not the 30-70% more that I have seen quoted.


IMHO these companies are making a large mistake trying to force a consumer to use a distribution channel that is clearly designed for another type of customer. Home theatre types need and want specialists like AVS or MVS (where I got my 400Q) who provide a fair price and expertise under one roof. The manufacturers need to wake up and come up with a more user friendly distribution model, or I suspect lots of customers will migrate to alternatives who treat the home theatre customer as something more than an afterthought.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Halcy and Bruce,

Your points are well taken. That's why I feel that B&M shops will always have a place. In fact, I've bought over $6000 worth of speakers from the same place that I auditioned the Sharp 9000 so I don't think that I'm really taking advantage of them, but my experiences with FP sales are more like Bulldogs111 and the help I've gotten from this website far exceeds anything a salesman could tell me. I just think the market should be open and not hindered by arbitrary/protectionist policies such as Sharp's. I would take the same position politically with regard to free trade as well :D
 

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Bulldogs111:


If you are talking about the 6th Ave. Electronics store on or about 40th St. and 6th Ave. in NYC, that would be one of the last places where I would go for a good deal. They may have gone reputable by now, but when I was living in NYC they were a step above the "permanently going out of business" store fronts that yell and scream their prices from their windows.


Unfortunately, the other stores I know in NYC may not be that great, as far as price is concerned. I get the feeling that Harvey's sells everything at list. You may do a bit better at Sound by Singer. I have not been to some of the others Lyric Hi-Fi, Stereo Exchange, Park Avenue Audio, and Innovative Audio.


If you are in NYC and happen to visit those other stores I mention, let me know what you think of them.
 

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I recently bought on G15 from an internet dealer, sight unseen. I based my decision mostly on reviews that I read here. I was able to get the projector at thousands of dollars below retail.


Even if I wanted to audition the projector, I probably would have had a hell of time finding a dealer that actually had one set up and set up correctly. Although I'm sure many would have been willing to sell me one at retail, even though they don't carry it in stock.


I've purchased the bulk of my home theater equipment in the same fashion, sight unseen from internet dealers willing to give big discounts, basing my decision on forum member and (less so) magazine reviews. I've made a few bad choices using this approach, but I've saved many thousands of dollars even after having to replace some components.


In fact, the only major equipment I can think of that I bought from a brick and mortar home theater store was my Monitor Audio speakers. Monitor Audio has (or at least had) the same lame policy as Sharp sounds like it's using. So I had no choice but to get the speakers from a dealer. Of course, I couldn't find a single dealer in all of Atlanta where I could audition the speakers or had any in stock. I had to pay up front (close to retail) and wait weeks (actually it ended up months) to receive the speakers.


If brick and mortar stores cannot compete on price, they won't get my business, period.
 

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Roll on the day you pay the dealer for the demo by paying for the demo and not in buying the product.


That way everybody will be happy.


Some time off I suspect but I imagine it's coming....


John
 

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The brick and mortar stores in my area Dallas/Fort Worth seem to size you up as soon as you walk in the door by what you drive ,clothes you wear etc..

I guess your budget seems to be the most important question they have on their mind or so it has seemed to me in the past.

As far as asking questions about screen gain or viewing angle several of the stores referred me to the mfg brochure because they had no idea.That is if they had on on hand.

I think there will always be a market for them with persons with large budgets that want a turn key package. Of course that puts us back to that ever important question of what your budget is.

To be honest with you I think they should have a little more respect for the internet shopper after all without forums like this they would have even less interested shoppers in their store.

If the internet is that much of a drain on their profits they should get involved such as AVS and others have. Just my lower budget opinion. John
 

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I believe strongly in supporting local dealers, especially when they go to the trouble of setting up the projector in a good room and being willing to let you spend time looking at it with your own materials and such.


However, my local dealer happens to be charging LIST PRICE for the projector. I would gladly pay a premium over an internet sale, but I absolutely will not pay list. Frankly, I simply find it disrespectful towards me that they would try to soak me on the price.


Charge a fair price -- higher than an internet reseller with no overhead, but not unreasonable -- and I'll buy from you every time.
 

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Hey, at least, I assume, most of you are older than 25!

You can't imagine what it is like going into high end stores at the age of 21, in a pair of jeans. Boy oh boy do I get disrespected. I have to harass them for a demo of anything. Then I drop the bomb, ask them questions that I know they cannot answer to shame them, and then they leave me alone with the unit to try (after I elighten them about their own products).


To be honest, there are only a few places I would buy things from...however, I don't htink I will every buy something off the internet. To much shipping, and what if something goes wrong, I wonna be able to go to the place I bought it, not be on a UPS marathon.
 

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Maybe Sharp will change their tune when the HT300 starts selling through folks like AVS for the same or less than the 9000.


If Sharp's not careful they could find themselves with the reputation of Runco.
 

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The question is what is a reasonable mark-up for a projector? THe B&M dealer has significant investment in equipment...leaseholds etc..etc...most customers do not want to add a premium for seeing touching and feeling...they just want to save money.


I have a private demo room (by appointment only) I have sound treated walls....beautiful sound system and decor...far superior to most any dealer. I am also available 7 days a week and form 8am to midnight to meet my customers needs...however would you believe that people even from this forum..will come over...ask multiple questions and seek advice...see things they can;t see anywhere else....take up my time....then tell me I need to match an internet price to get their business...I've even let them bring in their own equipment...


Keep in mind my prices are no where near list...but I cannot have 4-5 projectors to view...take up time...then give stuff away.... if a dealer only makes $500 a projector....he has to sell 15 projectors just to pay for his demo projector...(sharp or whatever)


Just telling the other side of the story.....not looking for arguments


Regards,

John
 

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This is not a "NEW " policy of Sonys® This has always been there policy with there pj's. They might be inforcing it more than before, but it's not new. And these dealers have found ways around this poicy, all you need to do is go to Ebay, and many dealers have the 9000 for 6895.00, that seems to be the going rate. A lot of these dealers have store fronts and are Authorized dealers, and your reciept will have the store fronts name on it.
 

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John, I can completely empathize with you and the other B&M gang..


I usually do business with a B&M person, unless they do not sell equipment I want, then I look elsewhere.


-- Cain
 

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I gotta say,


I agree with Halcy, John, etc. We should be supporting our local B&M dealers. The only problem is finding a good dealer, most of the ones around here haven't seen enough projectors or had enough experience to satisfy me (of course, I think all of us here are the vocal minority). I've got no problem parting with money to compensate someone for the time (and money) they've spent on me, the last dealer I bought from let me bring in my own equipment to test and spent quite some time with me. This service, along with better support all around, was worth whatever extra I paid over Internet pricing at the time. The other side of the coin is that the dealer must provide added value that matches the increase in price paid by the consumer, something that doesn't happen enough IMHO.


I think the idea of local dealers is great, but I think there's a shakeout coming and a lot of rather mediocre dealers are going to go out of business. The same thing must have happened with RPTV's and big box stores, the price competition must have put many dealers out of business. I hate to say it but I would almost welcome a shakeout, if you believe economic theory the market will correct itself over time. The intervention of manufacturers (i.e. prohibiting Internet sales) is probably not a good idea, especially for the manufacturer! Restrictions on trade lowers efficiency. I understand Sharp's desire to restrict Internet sales, but I think most of us agree it's wrong.


I applaud Ken for speaking with his dollars. I am sure there will be a competing product in the near future with similar specs that *will* sell on the Internet.


Regards,


Kam Fung
 
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