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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've seen various numbers spec'd, quoted, and thrown around in the forums and in various reviews. Pjcentral lists I believe 500 lumens. Elsewhere I've seen this range anywhere from ~500 to ~750 lumens. Can anyone end my frustration and confusion by pointing me to some definitive reference, or, perhaps even better, some confirmed measured results?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
That bright, huh? Are batteries included? :D
 

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I saw the z10000, it is not a bright pj. I saw one paired with a 110" diagonal firehawk. It looked dark. It looked better on another room with a 110" diagonal studiotek.
 

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I don't have exact numbers, but I measured mine against my HT1000+Panamorph and the 10k was brighter. I've actually been surprised at how bright it is on my 116" wide Hi-Power and when I showed a big movie outside. On my 110" (96" wide) Firehawk with the iris closed and the lamp on high in my light controlled room I mostly think it is bright enough, but if I've just watched it on a Hi-Power screen it might not seem bright enough.


Just based on what I've seen I think the 800 lumen spec I've seen is reasonable in comparison to other specs. My 10k is brighter than my 2000 lumen M20 D-ILA was, but that was after that one had been calibrated and with using 2 different filters to up CR.


Not sure if any of that helps.


--Darin
 

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I had the impression that the Sharp was one of the brighter HD2'd (7200 excepted of course)...


I thought they ran approx


Sim


Yamaha

Marantz - - - All very Close

Sharp


Infocus


Anyone care to commenton that impression... Also how the Benq / Runco / H76 should drop into the list ??
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So the spec is 800 lumens? Man, I'm confused. I can't even figure out what Sharp actually claims the output is, much less how it measures. :(
 

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speaking of brigthness

Widescreenreview measured 1473:1 (twice of the best HD1, who dares to say there is no improvement ??) and 851ansi in high brigthness

in high contrast and power save mode on, 1834:1 and 462 ansi (16.7ftl).

If my memory is correct. quite close to Sharp claims. (better in high brigthness). absolute black level was an excellent 0.009FTL

screen was 85inch 16/9 1.3 gain

the nec HT1000 was clocked at 240ansi lumens by German mag I think.

For large screens, like 120", I would recommend using a scope format.

You would need 471ansi to yield 16FTL with an isco and a gain of 1.3, and be in the high contrast mode.

Remember one thing: in high brigthness mode, hou already have TWICE the contrast ratio of the Z9000 and the other HD1.

So, there IS some very interesting room for maneuvering here... A 3.5meter (137") wide scope screen would be my prefered choice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Man, you've certainly piqued my interest here. :)


Indeed, my application is going to call for a 2.35:1 constant height/anamorphic lens setup with a screen width between 126" and 130"... right in line with your suggestion. Spot on, in fact, except for the screen - I'll probably start with a screen w/ ~1.0 gain (Dazian... need acoustically transparent, and the $$ a Stewart microperf would cost needs to be spent elsewhere at first, like on the pj! :D).


@ 130" 2.35:1, that's right at 50 sq. ft. For the recommended ~16 ft. lamberts, that's gonna require ~800 lumens. I was a bit worried if the 10000 was only ~500 lumens, but I can probably live with the contrast of high brightness mode (and, with a completely light controlled environment, maybe 500 lumens would work just fine as well).


The kicker is that my throw is gonna be right about 27' (+/- a few inches). The only two pj's that seem to come anywhere close are the Sharp 10000/12000, and the Marantz S2/S3. Going with the HD2 generation, the S2 even used would run around $10000 after adding the long throw lens. The Sharp is roughly half that. :)


Looks like the Sharp + panamorph lens (can't use ISCO, need the screen width to stay constant because of my long throw requirements) will probably fill the bill. Now I just need to see one in action to make sure it actually looks good (I like the S2, from what I have read the Sharp should be close).


Wonder why pjcentral lists the ansi lumens so low (500)? Must be high contrast economy mode they are referencing.
 

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Bigus

glad I could help. I truely think Greg Rogers's reviews (widescreenreview) are best in the industry.

as for screens, you can find some excellent material here, at excellent prices. check the pdf files for each material. the MPS 140 would be a good choice imho. it's microperforated and gives a decent but not excessive (not like those 2 or 3 gains !!) gain, adding 30% let's say, without reducing too much the field of view. http://www.harknesshall.com/ds/ds-032_1.pdf
https://secure.room2.co.uk/harknesshall/

bear in mind, when using microperforated screens, stick with larger than 92" screens to avoid moiré.

you can order them either fixed frames or fixed curved frames ( nice!, especially for scope formats. just a tiny curve of course).
 

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"but I measured mine against my HT1000+Panamorph and the 10k was brighter."


Kevin Millers test of the Z10000 stated at just +3 contrast the whites were crushed and light output was a whopping 30 to 40ftl's. Ofcourse you'll measure higher if the white level is crushing out.


After calibration he had to lower the Sharpness to -30 & Contrast to -8 to significantly lower the noise level. Although HD still exhibited a fair amount of low noise level.


Interesting a guest that was demoing my HT1000 said he just saw the Sharp Z10000 and it was grainy compared to the HT1000.


Miller has tested both the Sharp and the HT1000 and results after calibration on a 1.3 gain screen were -


15.7ftl's for the HT1000

15ftl's for the Z10000


He didn't mention black level for the Sharp but the HT1000 measured out at 0.003ftl.


He uses the Sencore CP5000 and Milori CF-6000 spectroradiometer.


Like I said before measurments are all over the board. No wonder the companys specs are all out of whack also.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by guitarman
"but I measured mine against my HT1000+Panamorph and the 10k was brighter."


Kevin Millers test of the Z10000 stated at just +3 contrast the whites were crushed and light output was a whopping 30 to 40ftl's. Ofcourse you'll measure higher if the white level is crushing out.
I still don't understand why he needed to adjust the contrast setting. I calibrated mine with ColorFacts and I felt that using the individual RGB values made a lot more sense. I did have to bring things down a little bit as the red was crushing near 95 IRE, though.


--Darin
 

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The Marantz isn't 800 lumens...although I wish it were (i had one). If I was a betting man, 500 lumens would be where I would put both Sharp and Marantz, with the Sharp a hair brighter. The NEC probably falls in the same camp when properly calibrated.


Now, that said, the S3/12k are supposed to both be brighter than the HD2 versions.
 

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Hi Darin,

Miller said he put the Z10000 through a full ISF calibration and using a high average picture level (APL) PLUGE pattern from the AVIA test DVD he then observed white crush or clipping at contrast settings above +3. Then according to measurments taken with Sencore and CF's, light output was a 30 to 40ftl's. He then lowered the contrast to -8.


Didn't you have a problem getting the black level and mirrors turn off in the black bars. I was thinking it might be best to start with the user contrast setting at -8 and then use colorfacts with the RGB's.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by guitarman
Didn't you have a problem getting the black level and mirrors turn off in the black bars. I was thinking it might be best to start with the user contrast setting at -8 and then use colorfacts with the RGB's.
The only place I had that problem was with the D1. I did all my calibrating for CR, etc. from my PC with DVI and it doesn't have the same issues with black level shift.


--Darin
 

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I guess you can't recommend the D1 with the Sharp then? It' a shame because you'll be missing out on all those freeze ups. ;)


Actually they're rare and rebootable.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by guitarman
I guess you can't recommend the D1 with the Sharp then? It' a shame because you'll be missing out on all those freeze ups. ;)


Actually they're rare and rebootable.
Actually, I use my V880 and found some settings that work with that. However, it could just be that I hadn't tried enough combinations with the D1. I still haven't tried ColorFacts with the V880 to see how the high end looks. I spend most of my time watching HD, so calibrating with my 30k with the DVI 1080i tape is next on my list. The truth is that most of this stuff looks good enough to me that I haven't worried about tweaking the last little bit out with ColorFacts. With the PC it is quicker, so I've done that one.


Also, you could be right about more image noise on the 10k than the HT1000. I didn't compare them head to head long enough to get a good feel for it. I thought the S3 at CEDIA showed less noise than the 12k there, but the S3 demo also didn't include anything other than really clean 720p material.


--Darin
 
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