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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As per the recommendations of a few AVSForum members, I believe I have decided to purchase the M10S. The question that I pose to those who have experience with this projector is how I should set up the screen size. I estimate that I will have about a 13' throw distance to the proposed screen. I would like to have about an 8' wide image. I've read some posts regarding having a fixed height and then zooming in or out to compensate for different aspect ratios. Can the M10S do this? Or does it have memory settings that I can setup so that it knows what to do depending upon the ratio?


I apologize if I seem dense about this topic, but I have never had any experience with FPTV. And, unfortunately my area sucks for trying to find knowledgable people to talk to about such issues.


Any help that someone may be able to give would be greatly appreciated.


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Greg Jones
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The M10S has a fixed-focus lens, meaning that the size of the image depends on the distance from the projector to the screen. There is no zoom to fine tune this, so placement will be critical.


I would project on the wall for about a week or so if possible, experimenting with different screen sizes. Watch a few movies and see how large you want it to be.


The M10S has a mode which will *almost* put 4:3 material in the center of a 16:9 frame. It will actually overscan the 16:9 frame by about 3% top and bottom, but it will be centered horizontally. If I were buying this projector, I would get a 16:9 frame and just live with the overscan on 4:3 material. For an 8' wide screen, this would give you a 4:3 size of 90" diagonal and a 16:9 size of 110" diagonal. This works well especially since 16:9 sources are higher quality (HDTV,DVD) than most 4:3 (DSS,VHS,Cable), so keeping the 4:3 smaller helps minimize the impact of the lower quality source.


When I evaluated this projector, I found it to be very soft focused through the s-video inputs (it was really blurry). The menus were sharp however, so it probably wasn't the lens. Other posts have indicated that an external scaler, such as the iScan, help greatly in sharpening the picture on this unit. I would not want to own it without a scaler (unfortunately, I didn't have one to try at my demo).


**SHAMELESS PLUG ALERT**


I happen to have an iScan available in the classified forum. Just wanted full disclosure since I am recommending that you purchase one.

 

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13 feet will give you an 8 foot wide image.


Jungle is right in that you will need an iScan as the S-Video input is kind of sucky.


Steve


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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Do you still think that I would need a scaler if I purchase a progressive scan DVD player? I currently have a Panasonic C220, but am seriously considering the option of selling it and purchasing a progressive player.


Also, my watching habits are 95% DVD, 3%VHS (I have a slideshow trivia presentation setup for my HT), and 2% Dish500. I can't say that I watch nothing but DVD, but it's pretty darn close.


I realize that I would benefit greatly from a scaler, but based upon my viewing habits and the possibility of purchasing a progressive scan DVD player, is a scaler something that I could live without initially and budget in as funds allow?


As for the overscan, I plan to build a faux wall that will hold the DIY screen and plan to have it completely black. I thought about covering the entire wall with Duvetyne or black velvet, but I have four cats and I don't want to be vacuuming every day to keep the hair off of the fabric (it's their favorite room in the house). Could I paint the wall black and put a border of black velvet around the screen to help absorb the overscan?


I also intend to make a vertical masking system for different aspects. Will I need to think about doing a horizontal masking system for 1.85:1 and 2.35:1 movies, or is the black level good enough on the M10S to not necessitate this added step?


Man, I've got some questions! Thank God this forum is here.


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Greg Jones
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Glad to be of help. I know I spent many, many, many hours here reading and asking questions before I bought my projector. Now I guess I get to return the favor!


If your viewing is 95% DVD, then you could get by with a progressive scan DVD player. The only problem could be your VHS Trivia stuff. When I had the M10S, the biggest problem through S-video and composite inputs was it was very blurry, for example when reading credits or sports scores. I imagine the same thing will happen to your VHS Trivia. The advantage of a scaler over a progressive DVD is that it will work for all of your sources. The iScan can be picked up used for $300 or so, about the price of progressive DVD. You can always check it out for youself and then get the scaler later if things are too blurry.


I didn't realize that you are making your own screen. In that case, what I would do is this. I'll assume that you are making it out of a 54" wide fabric, such as blackout cloth.


I would make my screen 54" X 90", which would best fit all of the aspect ratios:


4:3 - 54" X 72" (9" black bars on sides)

16:9 - 50.625" X 90" (1.7" black bars top and bottom)


By building your screen a little "taller" than a 16:9 screen, you won't have the overscan of the 4:3 mode (480 pixels in 4:3 vs. 450 in 16:9) falling on the border, but it will be on the screen. The tradeoff is 6 inches in screen width, but I don't think that will be that noticable.


I thought the black level was pretty good on this machine, you may not need the masking. I'd get it in and check for yourself, though, as we may have different opinions of good blacks.
 

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Hi guys,

I am also about to but the PG-M10s so will look forward to finding out these questions myself. I must say, on paper it seems to have one of the best contrast/black levels for a dlp projector out there (under 10k anyway). My main concern is how bad/or good the rainbow effect is with this projector. I do plan on running HTPC at 85hz which should help. I also believe it has a small clear section in the color wheel which should also help. Hence the good contrast levels and only 800 ansi lumen. Thanks Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
i'm not too worried about the trivia stuff. The only reason I have it on VHS is because the C220 will not accept any type of recordable media, thus not letting me drop it onto a VCD. If I upgrade to a progressive DVD player, chances are pretty great that it will also play CD-R/W media, then allowing me to place the slide show on VCD.


I was actually planning to use blackout fabric for the screen material. I've done a lot of reading over on the screens forum and this seems to be the most viable solution to a good DIY screen. When you talk about the 1.7" black bars on top and bottom, you are referring directly to a 16:9 image, such as HD, right? How will this work for a 1.85 or 2.35 image? Will I have a constant width/variable height setup, or a constant height/variable width setup? Or is it either, considering that the projector doesn't have any zooming capability? I ask this for no other reason than to figure out whether I will have a complex masking system (both horiz and vert).


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"Can I refill your eggnog, Eddie? Take you out in the middle of nowhere and leave you for dead?"


Greg Jones
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Sounds like progressive DVD is the way to go for you.


As far as the screen, the 1.7" black bars would be for actual 16:9 material. For 1.85:1 movies, they would be about 2.7", for 2.35:1 they would be about 7.9". I don't think I would bother masking the vertical bars for 4:3, especially since you say you will watch it so rarely.


As an alternative, you could build a 1.85:1 screen (52" x 96"). This would have the following:


4:3 material - 1.75" overscan on border (top and bottom)

16:9 material - 1" overscan on border (top and bottom)

1.85:1 material - perfect fit

2.35:1 material - 5.5" black bars (top and bottom)


This would simplify your masking (it would only be needed for 2.35:1 - only one size). Also, there are very few movies that are 4:3 or 16:9, so you probably can live with the slight overscan on those few that are. If it were me, and I had your viewing habits, this would probably be the way I would go. YMMV.

 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I believe that I will go ahead and do a 1.85:1 screen. And, am I to assume that based on the dimensions that you give for a 2.35:1 image, that I will be using a constant width/variable height setup?


Sounds like I have a plan. As for the makeup of the new wall, what would you recommend me doing as a covering? Like I said earlier, I considered covering the entire wall in black velvet, but cats make that issue too labor intensive. Could I use a flat black paint to finish off the wall, and put a black velvet border around the screen to absorb any overscan?


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"Can I refill your eggnog, Eddie? Take you out in the middle of nowhere and leave you for dead?"


Greg Jones
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As there is no zoom on this thing, to do a constant height-variable width setup, you would need to move the projector to a different spot for each aspect ratio. So, yes, this is a constant width-variable height setup that I was talking about.
 

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As far as the covering goes, you would probably be fine with just a 3" black border around the screen (enough to pick up the overscan in 4:3 and 16:9 modes). I have heard that black velvet is the way to go for the border, as it really sucks up the light.


If you want to paint the wall black, that would probably be great. I personally wouldn't bother with any black fabric covering. Another possibility that people do is to cover the walls with carpet, perhaps a dark grey (which will look near black with the lights out). Check the Theater Construction forum for more info or zip on over to www.hometheaterforum.com where they talk a lot about construction ideas.


Good Luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I think I'll probably cover the wall with carpet. There is a local surplus building supply store that has those 18" square rubber backed carpet sections that are commonly seen in computer rooms. They are of a Berber style looping. I can get 60 sq ft of them for about $30. I actually used the same type of squares on the riser platforms in my HT (see sig. for link). Installation is a snap. I wouldn't think that carpeting the wall would harm my front soundstage. I am getting ready to build the Audax DIY Speaker system at http://www.audax.com/doit/us_ht04.shtml . I will have the three front speakers and my Paradigm PS1000 sub up in front of the new wall. Should be a far cry better than the 9-year-old 61" RPTV and my Klipsch Quintet speakers that I have now.


Thanks so much for the info. I feel a little more confident in my new purchase. Now, I just have to find the best price on the projector.


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Greg Jones
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One last caveat,


Make sure that you buy from a place that will take the projector back if you don't like it. Of course, if you've already seen it this may not be as big of a deal, but if you are buying without seeing first, look for at least a 7-day no-restocking fee return policy.


There are a couple of places that offer this...try www.avmall.com for links to them. They may be $100 more than the next guy, but it would be worth it to me.

 

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Before you jump in, be aware that chances are the Sharp will not accept the output from any progressive DVD player you are likely to buy locally, although it will I believe take an ordinary component input (I haven't tried it).


I have a Skyworth DVD player that has progressive output via VGA and via component. The Sharp is quite happy with the VGA output, but not at all happy with component.


Unless you get the Skyworth, or the Apex A800A or (I think) the Camelot, you may be out of luck.


As I indicated above, an iScan works fine.


Steve




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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Steve,


So what you're saying is that I need to find a progressive DVD player that outputs the 480p signal via VGA, right? Doesn't someone make component-VGA breakout cables? Would this solve the problem?


Of those players that you mentioned, which one would you recommend? I know the Skyworth is generally an HK import, but is there anywhere Stateside that you know of that offers this player? This one seems to be the one to look into, as the Apex players have been problematic from what I have heard (don't know specifically about the 800A, but the others). How does the Faroujda work in the Skyworth? Have you had any problems with jaggies or color problems? I read on one of the other forums that someone experienced some sort of red push type problem on Toy Story with the Skyworth.


I'm going to do some searching around this and the other forums for some more information the Apex and the Skyworth. Your experienced input with these players would be greatly appreciated.


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Greg Jones
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Good catch, Steve. I forgot that the Sharp does not support a progressive component signal.


The VGA-Component breakout cables won't help in this case. The problem is not the cables but the type of signal being carried. To work correctly with the Sharp, you will need something that outputs 480p in RGB mode, not YPrPb mode. Like he said, these are few and far between. Maybe an interlaced player hooked up to an iScan is the way to go. On the back of the iScan you can select RGB or YPrPb mode for the output.

 

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The VGA out from the Skyworth works very nicely with the Sharp. No problems so far.


I don't have Toy Story and hence have't noticed the chroma bug.



Steve


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[This message has been edited by Steve Dodds (edited 06-13-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I'm in the process of reading the long post entitled "The Ultimate DVD Player" here on AVS. Steve, do you notice any scan lines through the M10S with the Skyworth? The more I read, the more anxious I am to drop the $300 and get one of these bad boys!


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"Can I refill your eggnog, Eddie? Take you out in the middle of nowhere and leave you for dead?"


Greg Jones
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I'm in the process of reading the long post entitled "The Ultimate DVD Player" here on AVS. Steve, do you notice any scan lines through the M10S with the Skyworth? The more I read, the more anxious I am to drop the $300 and get one of these bad boys!


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"Can I refill your eggnog, Eddie? Take you out in the middle of nowhere and leave you for dead?"


Greg Jones
The Cellar
 
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