[eric ace]

G,day This is my first post to this forum.


I am keen on getting the r-965 but I am not sure if it will have enough juice to power my paradigm studio 20s v2 all way around in a 7.1 setup. The speakers will be crossed over at 80hz to the SVS powered sub, the room dimensions are at 21 feet x 14 feet. We also like to listen to music and movies at 85 - 90dB.


Also I was wondering if there is any sonic differences between the r-965 to the a-965/p-965 combo as it is impossible to get a demo anywhere in

Melbourne Australia.


PS: dazbug, when you finally get your receiver setup please let us know

how it sounds.

 

[Bondmanp]

eric: You should have no problem acheiving the levels you desire with the R-965 in your room.


The pre-pro sectoion of the R-965 and the P-965 are identical. If there were any difference in sonics, it would be a result of the amplifier or cables used to connect the pre-pro and amplifier.

 

[eric ace]

Thanks for your reply Bondmanp.


Because at the moment I am able to purchase the R-965 cheaper than

the P-965 and the fact that you have stated that the pre pro section

between the two are identical, I suppose there is no point of having sepperates.


I probably could always add a power amp later if needed.

 

[dazbug]

Quote:

Originally posted by eric ace PS: dazbug, when you finally get your receiver setup please let us know how it sounds.

One Word :AWSOME.


The sound is incredibly detailed. I auditioned the HK 630/Denon 3805/Yahama 2400 and listened to the RX-z9.


Other than the RX-Z9 the R965 absolutelyblew the other receivers away. Now I have the R965 set up, it is pure magic. It sounds like im listening to the Z9 !! I have never heard some the the sounds in my dvd collection before (previously owned Denon 1803/2803 Marantz 7400.


I could not recommend the R965 more than enough. Although Australia distrubutors (Welling) are useless, with the help of Stereojeff (from Sherwoodamerica) I was able ot download the new firmware via USB cable and they just sent me out the preamp and mic for auto set up. SHerwoodamerica's customer service is second to none. I was going to buy HK 630, (due to lack of service from welling) but thanks to stereojeff i bought the R-965 as i was worried about the upgrades for the Australaian model, but they are all compatible.


Get the R-965, it is an awsome machine and under the Yamaha RX-Z9, I beieve is the best AV reciever out there sound wise and now (with upgrades) feature wise. It has so much power and clarity i was amazed and still am. It weighs 27 kgs !!! and just looks and smells of pure quality as they only use the best parts.


Get one now. How much are you paying?? I got mine for AU $2150. (RRP $2999) If you cant get it that cheap drop me a pm and ill tell you where.

 

[Spoonfed]

hmmm sound good daz.


would like to do a head to head wif my little panny. I have "similar" opinion of it vs teh Denon/HK etc you list..... though not in out right power terms.


had you have got your's earlier and posted such.... and i hadn't made my choice i think i would have been a BIG consideration!


Your only in Melbourne......... so anytime you wish to just "pop in" and give us a demo, is fine by me


Oh im southside of brisbane so definately closer than them CBD dwellers


bahaha

 

[cschang]

since your Panny is much lighter...you should you should take it to daz's.

 

[Spoonfed]

hmmmm yes


but given i sort of "broke it" well the coax digital in (800000000 cable swaps in some A/B coax connect testing and a little "zap" felt and dead coax input ) hopefully get it back from warrenty repair next week (takes foreva!)


damn HTPC's and their static cases haha

 

[eric ace]

Hey Dazbug thanks for your reply.


You just made my mind up and I will be buying the receiver next week,

by the way the receiver will cost about $2,000 ,heaps cheaper than the

P-965 which I find is a little strange because the internals are suppose to

be identical minus the power supply.


I spoke to a bloke named Micheal from welling about the updates and

the mic for auto set up and he said after I purchase the receiver take

the receiver to welling in Croydon and they will install all the updates

plus the preamp for the mic. He said this will not cost anything but may

take a couple of weeks as they have to order it in.


Well it looks like Welling have actually pulled their finger out and might

be offering some proper service.

 

[tubeguy44]

so the R-965 is rated at 120 watts per channel and the separate power amp (A-965) is rated at 100 watts per channel......


i know that the P-965 pre-amp is an excellent device..... but i am a little concerned about those small numbers for the power amps.....


when determining the amount of power you will need - the big key is to have enough headroom for the very fast transient peaks which can suddenly exceed your average listening levels by 10 to 15 times...


so if you are listening at 10 watts of average power.... a peak can suddenly demand 150 watts from your amp......


some inefficient speakers or very large rooms have the average power levels running about 20 to 25 watts..... you can see by doing the math why they might require more power...... (25 X 15 = 375 watts!!)...


if you don't have enough power for the peaks the signal will clip... causing distortion and possible speaker damage....


personally, in a room your size i would get the P-965 pre/pro and a more powerful outboard amp..... just my opinion.....



cheers!

 

[Enigma]

There's really no downside to going with the "r" vs. the "p", as the pre/pro version has no added features (such as balanced outs, for example). So you haven't lost anything as long as the price is the same (or cheaper). The P-965 sells for 1500 US (msrp), and can typically be found at a discount to that, while the R-965 is (approx) 2K, IIRC.


As far as the difference in amps, my understanding from StereoJeff is that the A-965 has a much beefier power supply, for an "all channels driven" spec that is higher, plus more headroom for low impedance speakers (higher current capability).


Seems like in your situation you could get the R-965; then decide if you want outboard amps; you may want a higher powered amp, or you may just want a 2 channel amp, using the receivers amps for surrounds. In any case it gives you more options.


I usually don't like using a receiver as a pre/pro (personal preference), but in this case it seems like the reasonable choice.

 

[Stereojeff]

Here are some simple thoughts:


The power ratings for the A-965 are full bandwidth with all 7 channels driven. Those of the R-965 are full bandwidth with only 2 channels driven.


The A-965 is designed specifically for low impedance loads.


The A-965 is one of the few amps available with an FTC-legal power rating for operation into 4 ohms. With all 7 channels driven at any combination of freqencies from 20 Hz to 20 kHZ into 4 ohms with no more than 0.09% THD, it will deliver a minimum of 160 watts RMS per channel.


The volume of the aluminum heat sinks for the A-965 is 3 1/2 times greater than than the heat sink volume of the R-965.


The A-965 uses two toroidal transformers in its power supply. The R-965 has only one.


Although there is little diffence in power output and, in my opinion, sound quality between the R-965 and the P/A-965 combo when driving 8 ohms loads, the A-965 has significant advantages as the impedance of the load drops.



Jeff

 

[tubeguy44]

Quote:

...The A-965 is one of the few amps available with an FTC-legal power rating for operation into 4 ohms. With all 7 channels driven at any combination of freqencies from 20 Hz to 20 kHZ into 4 ohms with no more than 0.09% THD, it will deliver a minimum of 160 watts RMS per channel.....

really?


so sunfire, gemstone, sherbourn, lexicon, plinius, anthem, aragon, theta, ATI, bel canto, bryston, and ALL the professional amps that you can buy are not "FTC-legal" when it comes to their 4 ohm power rating?????


and many of the amps that i just listed will "double down" - that is double their output when going from 8 ohms to 4 ohms....


not just going from 100 watts to 160 watts!!!!


the A-965 may indeed be a good amplifier - but there are many other brands that are "FTC-legal" (as you put it) that will provide much more power with much more dynamic headroom than the A-965......


examples for you...


sunfire cinema grand~seven
Quote:

200 watts rms continuous per channel, all channels driven into eight ohms from 20Hz to 20kHz with no more than 0.5% T.H.D. 400 watts rms per channel into four ohms 800 watts rms per channel into two ohms - time- limited basis

http://www.sunfire.com/200SevenFrontPR.htm


gemstone 7 channel
Quote:

Power Output at 8 Ù 200 Watts Power Output at 4 Ù 400 Watts (Doubles Down) Frequency Response 10Hz - 90kHz +0/-3dB

http://www.gemstoneaudio.com/amplifi...ue_diamond.php


i could cut and paste all day here...but you get the idea.....



cheers!

 

[Randybes]

Tubeguy,


Will see how common it is for Amps to be presented to the FTC for 4 ohm ratings-I just posted for a response to Dennis Murphy on the Madisound forum. See the link here to the FTC posting and Dennis's name. For those not familiar, Dennis is an avid amateur speaker builder (specializing in crossovers)

http://www.ftc.gov/os/2000/12/amplifierrulenotice.pdf

 

[Bondmanp]

tubeguy44: You make a valid point, but no need to jump down Stereojeff's throat here. He may have said "few", but he didn't say the A-965 was the "only" amp with honest power ratings at 4 ohms. I am glad you pointed out a few examples of other amps and brought up the "double-down" issue, but IMHO, I think you came down a bit hard on Stereojeff. I mean, even if there were four more amps besides your examples with honest 7 channel 4-ohm ratings, IMO that's still only a "few". Even if there were 100, Stereojeff's main point was to contrast the A-965 with the amp section of the R-965. How many manufacturer's reps would point out the shortcomings of its own power ratings on an open web forum?


I am greatful for all of your informative posts, and you usually only go on the attack when you are attacked first, but I didn't see Stereojeff's comment as a gross exaggeration.


Stereojeff is a valued contributer to AVSForum, as are representatives from any gear manufacturer. Naturally we want to challenge the claims they make, but I think we want to encourage manufacturers to post here.

 

[tubeguy44]

sorry if you read it that way....


i was not attacking jeff at all...... his statement just seemed pretty outrageous to me....


no offense intended....

 

[Cliff Watson]

I wonder if the A-965 can reach the “double down†wattage into 4 ohms if driven to the 5 ½ times higher THD of the Sunfire?

 

[tubeguy44]

as was pointed out on another thread... the THD of the sunfire is at maximum output.... so the 0.5% distortion is at 400 watts at 4 ohms....


i kind of think that the distortion level on the P-965 would be a bit higher at 400 watts at 4 ohms....

 

[Cliff Watson]

Quote:

Originally posted by tubeguy44 as was pointed out on another thread... the THD of the sunfire is at maximum output.... so the 0.5% distortion is at 400 watts at 4 ohms.... i kind of think that the distortion level on the P-965 would be a bit higher at 400 watts at 4 ohms....

Tubeguy,


"Double Down" for the A-965 would be 200 watts. Of course you knew that, you're just try to play "hide the facts".


If the 200 watt (@ 8ohm) Sunfire were tested to 0.09 THD at 4 ohm it may only be 300 watts.

 

[tubeguy44]

cliff,


the P-965 may or may not be able to double down..... without measuring it we are only guessing at what distortion levels would be present.....


the sunfire can and does double down 200 to 400 and does it again (for brief periods) from 400 to 800 watts in to 2 ohms.... somewhere i have read that the actual measured THD of the sunfire is much lower but Bob Carver rates all his amps at that distortion level...(i will try to find it and post it here)....


i did say the the P-965 is a good amp..... just that some other amps will provide more dynamic headroom......


the main purpose of my post was to address the "FTC-legal" comment that jeff posted.....



cheers!

 

[Cliff Watson]

"the P-965 may or may not be able to double down..... without measuring it we are only guessing at what distortion levels would be present....."


Well of course. That is why I said "I wonder". You as well as I know that distortion levels change with increased power output and your original comment was that A-965 can't do "double down" and then used an amp with 5 1/2 times the amount of THD at DD to prove your point.