[HsuDreamTheater]

Hey guys, been getting back into my audio listening since I have time and wanting to further educate myself on these forums on all the questions non of my friends or local electronic dealers rolleyes can provide. I've tried one SHM-SACD sampler on the green disc, and noticed no difference. Is this merely a marketing scam where they're claiming all digital data the same, the composition of the disc itself will make a difference? They charge such outrageous prices for the few out there it makes it harder for me to get more and try (Brothers in Arms, which I know originally to be a superior recording...could this REALLY further enhance that?!). Any input or your thoughts on SHM-SACDs stereo listening appreciated.

 

[glangford]

Way too expensive. Try the high Rez thread in the surround music format area. Many there by them. In many cases you can get the same thing cheaper as a high res flab download from hdtracks or now Pono.

 

[mcallister]

Not an SACD shm but a friend has the Beck Mutations SHM disc and you can clearly here a distinct difference for the better with the SHM disc. On both our systems. This is doing blind listening tests.

This is a very well recorded album to start with and both are HDCD decoded, but the SHM takes it up a level.

 

[acebreathe]

Hey guys, been getting back into my audio listening since I have time and wanting to further educate myself on these forums on all the questions non of my friends or local electronic dealers rolleyes can provide. I've tried one SHM-SACD sampler on the green disc, and noticed no difference. Is this merely a marketing scam where they're claiming all digital data the same, the composition of the disc itself will make a difference? They charge such outrageous prices for the few out there it makes it harder for me to get more and try (Brothers in Arms, which I know originally to be a superior recording...could this REALLY further enhance that?!). Any input or your thoughts on SHM-SACDs stereo listening appreciated.

I have a few SHM SACD's and while I like them quite a bit I can't say that they are night and day better than their redbook counterparts, but they do sound better. There is depth and a wider soundstage , a more robust sound to the best sounding discs that I have.There is also a theory that the discs get better the more they are played. Would you be better off with a hi rez download? Only you can answer that. I don't have Brothers in Arms on SACD but I do have it on DVD-A. On that format it's a multi channel release and it sounds great. For more info you should check out SACD.net. There are plenty of reviews there, and also check out the surround sound thread in this forum. There is a lot of info on the SHM discs in the recent purchase thread. You just need to do a search. The Steve Hoffman forums are also a good place for info.

 

[HsuDreamTheater]

Yea I have a good amount of HDCDs and SACD/DVD-As but was always just curious if the mix/mastering source being constant...would that same album say in SACD stereo sound less than the SHM SACD stereo version, all other variables being exact. That's interesting that theory Ace on playing actually makes them better, like a breaking in period! If you happen to come across that link could you share it please I'd love to read. Pretty much only other place in the world I can hear about SACDs is that SACD.net....I am the only person among all my friends and family who not only has heard of them, but even owns them lol!

 

[FMW]

Yea I have a good amount of HDCDs and SACD/DVD-As but was always just curious if the mix/mastering source being constant...would that same album say in SACD stereo sound less than the SHM SACD stereo version, all other variables being exact. That's interesting that theory Ace on playing actually makes them better, like a breaking in period! If you happen to come across that link could you share it please I'd love to read. Pretty much only other place in the world I can hear about SACDs is that SACD.net....I am the only person among all my friends and family who not only has heard of them, but even owns them lol!

If the master is the same, then they will sound the same. Any comment to the contrary is caused by expectation bias.

It flies in the face of the laws of physics that the "numeric" value of the data burned into a CD can change because of aging or playing the disc. Aging can cause problems with the coating on the disk which could cause errors. Those errors would be things like skips or failure to boot. They wouldn't be manifested in better sound. Again, just hearing bias.

 

[JWhip]

I must say that this is the first time I have ever heard anyone claim that the discs sound better the more times they are played. I don't see how that is possible. Sounds like more audiophile nonsense and I consider myself to be an audiophile.

 

[HsuDreamTheater]

I must say that this is the first time I have ever heard anyone claim that the discs sound better the more times they are played. I don't see how that is possible. Sounds like more audiophile nonsense and I consider myself to be an audiophile.

Yea I cant think of any scientific scenario how that may be possible, although it would be fun if that were true

 

[Iain-]

Yea I have a good amount of HDCDs and SACD/DVD-As but was always just curious if the mix/mastering source being constant...would that same album say in SACD stereo sound less than the SHM SACD stereo version, all other variables being exact. That's interesting that theory Ace on playing actually makes them better, like a breaking in period! If you happen to come across that link could you share it please I'd love to read. Pretty much only other place in the world I can hear about SACDs is that SACD.net....I am the only person among all my friends and family who not only has heard of them, but even owns them lol!

If the master is the same, then they will sound the same. Any comment to the contrary is caused by expectation bias.

It flies in the face of the laws of physics that the "numeric" value of the data burned into a CD can change because of aging or playing the disc. Aging can cause problems with the coating on the disk which could cause errors. Those errors would be things like skips or failure to boot. They wouldn't be manifested in better sound. Again, just hearing bias.

Indeed!

I post at SA-CD.net and never could understand why otherwise sane people would allow themselves to get caught up in the hysteria of this rubbish over there.

I have quite a few SA-CD, but none are of that type.

 

[HsuDreamTheater]

All good advice men

 

[Wildcat445]

I never bought the "SHM is better" shtick myself either. Thing is, I can't think of a title that was released on a non-SHM disc vs. an SHM disc that had identical mastering (or better yet, two that were bit-identical, the only difference being SHM/not SHM). SHM is Super High Material or in essence, just a different type of plastic used to manufacture the disc.

I think some of it, too, is marketing--I have seen it whip collectors into a frenzy because it's a new release with an alleged benefit. Granted, any material that can make it easier for the laser to read pits and lands is good. But I think some of the major labels are using SHM as a way to churn up sales of back catalog.

Some of the worst remasters I've ever heard happened to be released on SHM discs in Japan. Enough said. It's the mastering that is more important. The remaster labels like Analogue Productions, Mobile Fidelity, etc. aren't using SHM plastic, so take that for what it's worth also...

 

[Iain-]

There's a good thread of this subject at SA-CD.net:
http://www.sa-cd.net/showthread/122934//y?page=3

Please note my comments on the first two posts at the beginning of that page.

 

[hogger129]

Hey guys, been getting back into my audio listening since I have time and wanting to further educate myself on these forums on all the questions non of my friends or local electronic dealers rolleyes can provide. I've tried one SHM-SACD sampler on the green disc, and noticed no difference. Is this merely a marketing scam where they're claiming all digital data the same, the composition of the disc itself will make a difference? They charge such outrageous prices for the few out there it makes it harder for me to get more and try (Brothers in Arms, which I know originally to be a superior recording...could this REALLY further enhance that?!). Any input or your thoughts on SHM-SACDs stereo listening appreciated.

I have a few of these SHM Platinum CDs of The Rolling Stones. I have Sticky Fingers, Goats Head Soup, It's Only Rock 'N Roll, Black and Blue, Some Girls and Emotional Rescue. They sound great. The older Virgin discs are pretty good, but not quite as clear most of the time. But it has nothing to do with the material the disc is made of - it's all mastering. I don't know why they can't do these kinds of releases here in the US instead of saving them for Japan.

 

[Iain-]

I have a few of these SHM Platinum CDs of The Rolling Stones. I have Sticky Fingers, Goats Head Soup, It's Only Rock 'N Roll, Black and Blue, Some Girls and Emotional Rescue. They sound great. The older Virgin discs are pretty good, but not quite as clear most of the time. But it has nothing to do with the material the disc is made of - it's all mastering. I don't know why they can't do these kinds of releases here in the US instead of saving them for Japan.

Actually, there are some quite excellent boutique remaster companies in the US. This is one of several:
http://store.acousticsounds.com/cat/4/SACD

I imported their most popular title, Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here", shortly after it's release and remain amazed by it every time it's played. I also have Dave Brubeck's "Time Out", "Getz/Gilberto" and others, as well.

 

[hogger129]

Actually, there are some quite excellent boutique remaster companies in the US. This is one of several:
http://store.acousticsounds.com/cat/4/SACD

I imported their most popular title, Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here", shortly after it's release and remain amazed by it every time it's played. I also have Dave Brubeck's "Time Out", "Getz/Gilberto" and others, as well.

Yep there's Analog Productions (who actually made that SACD of Wish You Were Here), Mobile Fidelity and Audio Fidelity. DCC used to make audiophile CDs too but the company isn't in business anymore.

 

[BillP]

Actually, there are some quite excellent boutique remaster companies in the US. This is one of several:
http://store.acousticsounds.com/cat/4/SACD

I imported their most popular title, Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here", shortly after it's release and remain amazed by it every time it's played. I also have Dave Brubeck's "Time Out", "Getz/Gilberto" and others, as well.

There are several Beach Boys Hybrid SACDs on that web site (and I can't find them on other websites). When were they made? Has anyone heard them? I was disappointed in the remastered CD versions from 2012.

 

[Iain-]

There are several Beach Boys Hybrid SACDs on that web site (and I can't find them on other websites). When were they made? Has anyone heard them? I was disappointed in the remastered CD versions from 2012.

Some were released < 2 months ago and some haven't been released yet as you will see:
http://www.sa-cd.net/titles/0/51/date/100/1

 

[hogger129]

Useless to me as they're single-layer. As for the Platinum CDs, I bought Derek & The Dominos - Layla, and all The Rolling Stones titles from Sticky Fingers up to Emotional Rescue. I thought that these were hands down the best versions I've heard of these albums. It has nothing to do with the material the disc is made out of. It's all mastering. I would suppose though that the benefit to the platinum surface is that it won't bronze or 'rot' like the old JVC discs were notorious for. Same as gold discs that the audiophile labels used to use.

 

[hogger129]

Actually, there are some quite excellent boutique remaster companies in the US. This is one of several:
http://store.acousticsounds.com/cat/4/SACD

I imported their most popular title, Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here", shortly after it's release and remain amazed by it every time it's played. I also have Dave Brubeck's "Time Out", "Getz/Gilberto" and others, as well.

I have that Analogue Productions SACD of Wish You Were Here. It does sound great to my ears. I still enjoy listening to my old Columbia CK 33453 disc as well. A lot of people rave about the old Japanese 2-track and the Sony Mastersound gold disc, but I can't bring myself to dumb ridiculous amounts of money on either of them.

 

[eljr]

I must say that this is the first time I have ever heard anyone claim that the discs sound better the more times they are played. I don't see how that is possible. Sounds like more audiophile nonsense and I consider myself to be an audiophile.

Yea I cant think of any scientific scenario how that may be possible, although it would be fun if that were true

there is very "sound" (lol) science behind this.

The more pleasing sound is a product of our evolving familiarity as we listen over and over not from the source material improving.