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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
 http://www.htprojectors.com/htprojec...09716_b_bb.jpg

SIM2 Domino 20, 1024 x 576 Matterhorn 12° tilt DMD

http://www.htprojectors.com/htprojec...sc07567_bb.jpg

NEC HT1000, 1024 x 768 12° tilt DMD



The mother of all shoot outs hasn’t come to an end yet: we had to split it in several parts, due to the huge amount of data and shots that were shown inside it.


But… here we are again! I thought that new models like the Matterhorn-equipped DLPs that are now appearing on the market could be of some interest for all of us HT buffs. Maybe this is truer for the European market: let’s keep in mind that Matterhorn resolution is 1024 x 576, i.e. the 576i that characterizes the PAL system.


If this chip cannot be directly compared to the 1280 x 720 DMDs that are now top of the TI HT series, they have some close references to the XGA matrices that are used so far in well known and respected units.


Like the NEC HT1000, for example! Since the Italian distributor still gently leaves in my hands the sample we used for testing, I have the opportunity to perform another shoot out. A scaled version, it’s trivial to say: I still have to recover from the workload I had to accomplish to bring the MOAS to an end!


But I think these reviews must be of some interest: they’re shorter than HTProjectors’ usual standard, but maybe… the standard is too large!

So, sparing forces and giving you some topics for discussing might be a profitable issue.


The scheme will always be the same: some few data about the projectors, measures and screen shots.


Once again, about screen shots: they are a way to compare 2 projectors performing under same conditions. Period. You can’t derive, infer or draw absolute conclusions from a screen shot: exposure is an average of (sometimes very) different levels of illumination, colors are passing under my digital camera, jpeg compression and your monitor’s gates: not a warranty of top notch quality, the overall chain, uh? So, please: take them for what they are: a medium that helps us in evaluating 2 projectors performing side by side, not an absolute judgment for their actual value!


Additional info. This is a not typical review: I decided to leave free access to it on HTProjector’s site, and posting it on AVSForum before publishing on our website. To be honest, as I always am: I hope this can contribute to widen our readers’ number. We are HT fanatics, here at HTProjectors, but we do need to know if our adventure has some degree of followers: this measure for us is the number of subscribers.

In the meanwhile, this could be an option to rise a different model: a review that is made with the contribution of what is the world largest den of HT addicted, AVSForum, growing with their help and ideas: I think no magazine until now has tried such a scheme!


My idea is posting one additional part per day, and during the day itself gathering what you would like to post as opinions, idea and other (insults? ;) ).


I have finished the whole shoot out and need only to write it down, that's rather easy. But I can change my course if necessary...


So, once again, let’s start with


Shoot out rules


• Projectors at this shoot out are 2 units featuring a 12° tilt, 1024 x 768 (NEC HT1000) and 1024 x 576 Matterhorn (SIM2 Domino 20)


• Connections are component for DVD and D-VHS HD signals.


• Projection screen is a Stewart StudioTek 1.3 gain, 96†wide (244 cm.), divided in two areas, each of approximately 63†wide (160 cm.), with the two DLPs simultaneously projecting on it.


• The measurements have been taken in default conditions (as established by the manufacturers) and after a calibration with Colorfacts.


• The available time for the calibration of each projector cannot exceed 2 hours.


• When the size changes, the projector’s evaluation changes significantly. The same product might easily fail because we are asking too much from it, on a surface which it cannot adequately cover. The 3D effect is better when the size is smaller. So, absolute ratings are not the objective of this shoot out.


• We are going to examine differences in the chromatic behavior and overall picture rendering, in the black level and in the linearity of the grayscale, in the control of light spill outside the picture and how much the image we see on screen appears natural.


• Screenshots must always be integrated with their written comment for a correct evaluation. The differences emerging from an actual vision cannot be accurately reproduced in a screenshot: the written comment included with each screenshot is necessary.


• Rainbow effect. I am completely immune to it, so unfortunately I cannot provide any relevant info about this important problem afflicting many viewers.


To be continued… ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Nope...:eek: :eek: :eek: I'm sorry!

But tomorrow I have scheduled an optician consult ... ;)
 

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Andrea, you know me...I am very appreciative of your efforts...but I am not sure about this comparison. The HT1000 would surely produce a better image with the DVI fed material then with the component. Why penalize (or downgrade its capability) just because the Domino does not have that feature? In my opinion, both projectors should be used to the fullest of their potential.

What do you think?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
shumi_9, you know me... ;) I would like the Domino with a DVI input.

It lacks. Not my decision. What else can we compare it to? Almost every pj has (now and today) DVI. So what? We'll compare the Domino to... none? A class on its own? Not really...


I'm a DVI addicted, no question: but of the product lacks this connection, I think it's correct using it as (maybe) the majority of people will use it: component, maybe interlaced to get full potential from Faroudja.


And believe me, what you'll see is not so bad... ;)
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by shumi_9
Andrea, you know me...I am very appreciative of your efforts...but I am not sure about this comparison. The HT1000 would surely produce a better image with the DVI fed material then with the component. Why penalize (or downgrade its capability) just because the Domino does not have that feature? In my opinion, both projectors should be used to the fullest of their potential.

What do you think?
I would also humbly add, a contemporary projector without a DVI input, would never be on my shopping list in the first place. Perhaps DVI is not a compelling an issue at the moment, but as HD-DVD becomes available a digital input will be manditory. IMHO, a DVI input should be manditory now.
 

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I have a problem with this:
Quote:
Projection screen is a Stewart StudioTek 1.3 gain, 96? wide (244 cm.), divided in two areas, each of approximately 63? wide (160 cm.), with the two DLPs simultaneously projecting on it.
When you are attempting this:
Quote:
We are going to examine differences in the chromatic behavior and overall picture rendering, in the black level and in the linearity of the grayscale, in the control of light spill outside the picture and how much the image we see on screen appears natural.
If you are firing both projectors simultaneously this is going to be difficult unless you have some way of shielding the Left/Right halves of the Studiotek from light coming from the other half, right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Bytehoven
I would also humbly add, a contemporary projector without a DVI input, would never be on my shopping list in the first place. Perhaps DVI is not a compelling an issue at the moment, but as HD-DVD becomes available a digital input will be manditory. IMHO, a DVI input should be manditory now.


Bytehoven,

I personally agree. But we must keep in mind that there are a lot of people who use only video... bleah! how do you call that s..t coming from one yellow cable? ;) So, if you don't have a DVI output, component is still an acceptable way to go.

I guess it's more a product positioning rather than a cost control choice, since a DVI input will not move the overall accounts by far...
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by WanMan
I have a problem with this:


When you are attempting this:



If you are firing both projectors simultaneously this is going to be difficult unless you have some way of shielding the Left/Right halves of the Studiotek from light coming from the other half, right?


I wouldn't say so.


There are units where light spill is an issue (I had trouble with both the InFocus 7200 and DreamVision CinemaTen Pro), but generally light control has become serious and doesn't affect the other pj's image.


This is one of the brightest image I looked at, from Gladiator:

http://www.htprojectors.com/htprojec...09704_b_bb.JPG


As you can see, the overall balance isn't affected (obviously not in an absolute way, only in an acceptable manner) by the presence of the other projector.


It stands for clear that if you have a great light output, watching one projector while others are projecting is nearly impossible: the last shoot out I saw at the InfoComm has exactly this situation, where large venue LCDs, with tons of lumens on the screen, heavily affected the other pjs 15 meters away... But that's NOT HT, it's large venue!
 

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May I ask what 2 FP's were used in the above images?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Sure, Threecard, why "may I"?


It's an actual image (you can see my Sonus faber center channel on the left) with both the NEC and SIM2 we are talking about.
 

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*lol* I didn't want to interrupt the thread incase it wasn't the 2 you were speaking of, as you mentioned the IF7200 and another above.:) so the NEC top right, sim bottom left or visa versa? Thanks! 3C
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Threecard,

you don't know me, but I always try, doing my best, to talk only about things I can demonstrate... so if we're talking about NEC and SIM2, the images MUST come from the two!!! ;)


Anyhow, let me "shuffle cards" (ih, ih... :D :D :D ) a little bit and be patient: you'll know which one is which when making comments about the shots!


So your guess is:


NEC above right

SIM2 below left


Right?

We could start a poll... ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
P.S.: the size I'm showing here is 640 x 480.

I have 800 x 600 and 2048 x 1536.

Which one do you think could be accurate enough to see differences?

At HTProjectors we decided for a 800 x 600, even taking into account an average loading time for those who don't have xDSL, cable or fiber, but a simple modem.

Open to suggestions...
 

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I'd say 800x600 would be fine...The thing is you can't gauge the picture too much with any camera shot... If I were doing something like this, I would personal pick the photos that I totally agreed with "in person" meaning I saw that the black levels were at a different level between the 2, and this picture shows the comparison rather well etc...I like this thread...it gets good attention and is a learning tool...thanks for the reading/pics...now which is which:) lol From the shot, I'd say the lower left performs better on this screen...then again, a lower gain screen can do some wonders too...
 

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Is that screen door I see in that shot? From both projectors! Seriously, somebody tell me I'm mistaken.
 
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