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I'm been looking around at the NAD T752 in the local shops and online. Locally I can not get them to go below $840 (they are an Authorized Dealer). A search on yahoo finds several places below $750, but none of them are an Authorized Dealer. Should I be leery buying from them? Will NAD not honor the warrantee?


Thanks again,

Levin
 

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Youhit the nail on the head. Most of the places that are not authorized. NAD (or any manufacture for that matter) will NOT honor any warranty claims. So that leaves you high and dry if it ever fails.Spend the extra and have that warranty for that "just nicase" that you get stuck with the statistical dud ;)
 

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With that difference in price, I think that I would definately go with the local dealer. Even if the online place did have good customer service, you could be looking at up to 50 bucks just to ship the thing back to them if you ever had a problem, so that eats up most of your savings right there...


I think that the topic is a good one though, as I have been in the market for a new receiver, and you can really start to see a substantial difference in some cases. For instance, one can get the Denon 4802 at a number of places online for between 1600 and 1700, but an authorized dealer won't budge much from the 2499 MSRP. And, even if you got your local dealer to give you a 15% discount (which may be unlikely - depending) then you are still talking about a difference of 400-500 dollars! That's a HUGE disparity!


I want to buy local whenever I can, but give me a break! In my opinion, an authorized dealer with a valid warranty doesn't justify an $800 price tag (which is the difference between online and B&M stores).


Am I missing something?


David
 

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I just bought an Pioneer Elite 45TX online for $860 with shipping. The lowest I got a Brick & Morter to go was $1200... I'm sorry but that different is just too good to pass up. BTW, I called all the dealers as I didn't want to waste their time demo'ing the equipment if I was just going to buy online. I pretty much bought that amp sight unseen based on reviews (and the 30 day return policy :) ). I have no problem paying $100 - $150 more to be able to demo the unit and take it home with me RIGHT NOW, but approaching $400 it just doesn't seem worth it.
 

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Please note that the Magnuson-Moss Act does offer consumers some protections even if you purchase from a "unauthorized" dealer. Of course, if it comes to that, the time and expense of getting a lawyer or suing for coverage is going to be a lot more than the extra cost from an authorized dealer. The hope is that they back down and service your equipment if you mention the act and familiarity with the details of it....


The fine print is here:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/...s/warranty.htm


I'm not a lawyer, so do your own research:)
 

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Quote:
Please note that the Magnuson-Moss Act does offer consumers some protections even if you purchase from a "unauthorized" dealer.
You've brought up a good point. I wonder if manufacturers - because they're not always based in the U.S. are feeling like they are exempt from the act?


Also, I wonder why agencies such as the FTC haven't been successful at getting companies like Denon to pull the warranty message off of their Web site? Is it because the FTC isn't aware of the practice? Or, because the FTC would rather ignore the issue until it gets big enough for them to get involved? Clearly, a few hundred cases of warranty disputes each year may not be enough to get their attention on matters such as this because they're too busy watching over corporate mergers and takeovers.
 

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Darren_C


This is NOT advise, opinions or any legal advise.


Nice try :) But if you read the little manual that comes with the equipement. They specifically state the condition of the warranty. Now what is a reasonable time. A court of law will probably say around 30 days no more (the cash back period). Anything further than that and the warranty becomes non exsistance as it was stated in the contract.


Consult with a local lawyer to find out the laws of your area.


Hank


All i know is. Hope that receiver never breaks ;)... Remember. Murphy is always watching.
 

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To repeat and maybe sum up...


No warranty.


The risk - equipment failure. I generally think in terms of overall costs and probability of failure. IF I was looking to make significant HT purchases, I would look at the overall savings and determine if I could now become 'self insured' on equipment failure. In this case you are thinking more like you are in the used market instead of the new market - if one component fails you can afford to replace it under the same cost structure as authorized retailer (two failures is where your costs becomes greater, etc.).


When I purchase 'non-authorized' I treat it as a used purchase and take my chances. On single, long term items (other than speakers) I generally go authorized dealer.
 

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I would think that the following cluase from the Magnuson-Moss act says it all:


"As a warrantor or a seller, you must ensure that warranties are available where your warranted consumer products are sold so that consumers can read them before buying."


So, if a seller allows their product to be sold through any company, on-line or B&M, then they clearly have a legal obligation to provide warranty information through those sites. That information must clearly state that purchase from that site voids the warranty. Providing this information on their own sites does not meet the criteria of the law, which is that it must be provided where the products are sold. If they don't, they are in violation.
 

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I find companies like Denon to be two-faced in nature. On one hand, they actively allow non-B&M channels to acquire product for resale and then claim they have no liability for their product's quality. How does the method of sale for a NIB product lose its ability to perform as it leaves its factory?


It simply comes down to the fact that Denon, and other companies, see additional revenues they can bolster by distributing non-warranty products to non-B&M channels and at the same time not get into too much heat from their B&M dealers that must honor the manufacturer's warranty as a meant to justify the additional pricing.


Now, do the B&M businesses pay the same thing that the non-B&M businesses do? Well, I do not know, nor do I know someone that can answer that question. I would imagine that any dealer buying a larger number of units than a dealer buying 1 or 2 would most certainly get a lower $/unit manufacturer contract, which in turn keeps a required higher resale price to the consumer.


But this is not what is being argued, or asked, here. If the price difference is considerable ($90 is NOT considerable) then play it safe and buy B&M. But the fact remains that there are not sufficient numbers of people complaining to the appropriate target to yield any satisfactory results. These companies can easily close those channels. Someone has to be selling those Internet channels the product, and I would like to think Denon isn't all that helpless and stopping those channels from acquiring product.


But then again, they don't really wish to.
 

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Quote:
All i know is. Hope that receiver never breaks ... Remember. Murphy is always watching.
Me too! But I am considering it more like WanMan states. Its almost like buying it used, warrenty wise. The online retailer assured me that if Pioneer didn't honor their warrenty they would, which from reading that act they would have too since they stated a warrenty on the website. I'm not counting on it though. If the unit makes it though the 30 day return period it will probably be fine. If not, I will try getting it fixed though the online retailer and if thats a no-go then I will pay to get it fixed myself down the road.


It really comes down to money. I can buy this reciever online for the price I did, or I can buy a step down from a store. If a bought from the store I really wouldn't be upgrading... So I guess I am taking my chances, just like if you bought from someone on Ebay or from home theater classifieds. I just wish the different was only $100!
 

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I purchased my Boston 970's a couple of years back from a buddy who worked at Good Guys, at the time I think they were going for the list price of $900 or so each. The employee discount (cost) brought the pair down to just over a grand with tax... So at most of these b&m's you are looking at almost a 100% markup.


In fact, I knew a couple people who would use their employee discount to purchase Home Audio/Car Audio products (as often as allowed) and resell them on Ebay making 25% over what they paid (still quite less than what they sold for at Good Guys). Now if a couple of college kids can pull off that type of enterprise... hell if you were somehow able to get a bunch of equipment at near wholesale cost, you could open up a website (heh or just use ebay) and run it out of your garage and make quite a bit of coin..



Moral, that denon 3803 you just bought at list from Circuit city just covered the lost on the 200 Austin Powers dvds sold at a buck below margin to drive traffic into the store this weekend (probably leaving the same amount of $ the e-tailer makes in profit left over). Doesn't that suck.
 

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WanMan is right - McIntosh closes the door to no authorized dealers - Denon could if they wanted.
 

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I can't say I like these policys of not covering the warranty, but it does make business sense. If they don't have to support the warranty, they can sell the product cheaper, and therefore the online places can offer them cheaper also. (I know it doesn't work exactly like that, but not much difference from a consumer point of view.)


More importantly, as a consumer, I am OK with being able to pick between Receiver and Receiver+Warranty. The fact that McIntosh is not giving me this choice does not necessarily make more sense.
 

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reliableaudiovideo.com. I have ordered from them for years not all products are covered by man. warranty, but if it is not then they cover the product with their warranty. It worked for me.
 

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So - if you go the the manufacturer's website (Harmon Kardon for Example) you can sometimes find a list of Authorized Internet Dealers. I.e. J&R is an authorized dealer for HK online.


Thus you can get the warranty and a better price than local (although never as cheap as an unauthorized dealer). For example, my local circuit city wants $999 for an 525 receiver. J&R will email you a price around $750 which comes out at least $200 cheaper (counting shipping). Of course you DO have to consider the return shipping cost if you have a problem. ...


There are a couple online retailers who are authorized NAD dealers, but I'll bet that the marginal gain for you will be small. The cheapest AUTHORIZED online price I could find for a T752 was $750. Plus about $40 shipping. So total $790 plus you'll have to return ship if there's problem. Not all that different from your local $840 price ...


cd
 

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how does this work with installers? If an AV Installer uses AVAD for their equipment and sells some equipment to a customer and installs the product is the installer considered an authorized dealer? Is AVAD? What about warranty in this situation? Can the installer sale the product cheaper than list to "hook" the customer up?
 

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The old online vs local dealer is a valid question. I make major purchases locally because I want the convenience of any needed service. I have also bought from authorized dealers online. They have been very responsive to my issues. It is easy to send back a defective DVd player but large RPTV is a different matter. Anyway that is a cost/benefit analysis I do with every purchase (Convenience of support vs price). I also take into account the pre-sales service I get. I find it a bit unethical to spend a lot of time picking the brains of local dealers, getting demos and getting educated and then just buy online. But to each there own. Having said that, I *NEVER* buy from an unauthorized dealer. It just isn't worth the risk and hassle. So many products unfortunately need service or software updates that it is false savings to buy unauthorized. my 2 cents.
 

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Eric,


If a custom installer buys a product through proper distribution then yes, the product is warrantied. I doubt that you'll find a custom installer that is willing to discount equipment. There is simply too high a demand for our services to accept discount clients. If someone mentions a lower price I reduce the level of the system or take rooms or functionality away. Regards.
 

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Bill, I guess I should have said more like when an AV installer sells the products to say their aunt or uncle. Sure they want to get at least what they are out on the product but they don't want to make their family members pay full price for the products.. Will this void their warranty if they ever need to get it fixed?
 
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