AVS Forum banner
1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey everyone! I'll start off with my current room setup:

PS4 Pro, XboX One S and PS3 connected to AV receiver - because every time I game/watch bluray, I want 5.1 surround sound

By the way, the AV receiver is an Onkyo HT-R393 which is part of my home theatre system, Onkyo HTS3700.

The AV receiver is then connected to the TV - LG 42LW5700.

Apple TV 4th gen connected directly to the TV, because TV speakers are fine. If I want to watch Netflix or other things via 5.1 in the Apple TV, I just turn on the receiver and the audio is passed to it via ARC (right?)

So that's my current setup.

I am looking to replace my current TV with a 4K one. However, I checked with Onkyo and they said that my current receiver is not capable of 4K HDR pass through. That would be a problem if I play 4k movies and games on my consoles.

Would there by any difference in audio/video if I just connect all devices directly to the TV, then just process the audio via ARC from TV to receiver? So I don't need to buy a new receiver that has 4K HDR pass through.

Or is it still better to connect devices directly to the receiver?

Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
347 Posts
Connecting any blu ray player directly to the TV will result in not getting HD sound (Dolby HD/DTS Master Audio). Most standalone 4K blu ray players come with 2 HDMI out...one for connection directly to your 4K TV and one to the receiver for sound decoding (just in case you have older gear that can't pass a 4K signal).

Unfortunately for you, I think the Xbox One S and PS4/PS3 only have 1 HDMI out.

If you value HD sound for movies, then you will either have to buy a standalone 4K player with 2 HDMI outs, or buy a new receiver with 4K/HDR/Dolby Vision pass through and keep your current gear. If you want HD sound for gaming (xbox/PS4), then you will need a new receiver.

Video wise, you shouldn't see a difference whether the gaming consoles are connected directly to the TV or through the receiver (as long as your receiver is used just as a pass through).

It's all about the sound though....how important is HD sound to you?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
"Connecting any blu ray player directly to the TV will result in not getting HD sound (Dolby HD/DTS Master Audio)."

Yes I understand this but won't the ARC thing pass the sound to the receiver, then the receiver processes it into HD sound? What I noticed is that when I want to play movies from Netflix with HD sound from my Apple TV, I turn on the receiver then there's like a red dolby digital symbol that lights up on the receiver. If the content is not 5.1, a different symbol lights up on the receiver - can't exactly remember what it is now, have to check when I get home later.

"Most standalone 4K blu ray players come with 2 HDMI out...one for connection directly to your 4K TV and one to the receiver for sound decoding (just in case you have older gear that can't pass a 4K signal)."

I did not know that 4K players had 2 HDMI outs. Thanks for this. Never actually bothered to look for 4K players yet since I most likely would be using 4K from Netflix and PS4 Pro gaming.

"Unfortunately for you, I think the Xbox One S and PS4/PS3 only have 1 HDMI out.

If you value HD sound for movies, then you will either have to buy a standalone 4K player with 2 HDMI outs, or buy a new receiver with 4K/HDR/Dolby Vision pass through and keep your current gear. If you want HD sound for gaming (xbox/PS4), then you will need a new receiver.?"

But my gaming auto settings state that I am outputting 5.1 surround sound. Like I hear ambient noise and sound effects coming from separate speakers. Same thing for my current non 4K blurays. If that's not HD sound, I sure am confused now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
347 Posts
"Connecting any blu ray player directly to the TV will result in not getting HD sound (Dolby HD/DTS Master Audio)."

Yes I understand this but won't the ARC thing pass the sound to the receiver, then the receiver processes it into HD sound? What I noticed is that when I want to play movies from Netflix with HD sound from my Apple TV, I turn on the receiver then there's like a red dolby digital symbol that lights up on the receiver. If the content is not 5.1, a different symbol lights up on the receiver - can't exactly remember what it is now, have to check when I get home later.

"Most standalone 4K blu ray players come with 2 HDMI out...one for connection directly to your 4K TV and one to the receiver for sound decoding (just in case you have older gear that can't pass a 4K signal)."

I did not know that 4K players had 2 HDMI outs. Thanks for this. Never actually bothered to look for 4K players yet since I most likely would be using 4K from Netflix and PS4 Pro gaming.

"Unfortunately for you, I think the Xbox One S and PS4/PS3 only have 1 HDMI out.

If you value HD sound for movies, then you will either have to buy a standalone 4K player with 2 HDMI outs, or buy a new receiver with 4K/HDR/Dolby Vision pass through and keep your current gear. If you want HD sound for gaming (xbox/PS4), then you will need a new receiver.?"

But my gaming auto settings state that I am outputting 5.1 surround sound. Like I hear ambient noise and sound effects coming from separate speakers. Same thing for my current non 4K blurays. If that's not HD sound, I sure am confused now.
Just because you are getting dolby digital and 5.1 sound doesn't mean it's HD sound. I was getting 5.1 sound way back before anything HD came out when my hookups were with digital optical cables. ARC does not pass Dolby HD or DTS Master Audio. When playing a game or movie, hit the info button on your receiver's remote. That should tell you what kind of sound is being processed. Dolby Digital is not the same as Dolby HD. Also, if you're streaming 4k netflix, odds are its not HD sound, but Dolby Digital instead. Not many streaming options offer HD sound. Check a 4K title in Netflix and see what kind of sound it offers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Just because you are getting dolby digital and 5.1 sound doesn't mean it's HD sound. I was getting 5.1 sound way back before anything HD came out when my hookups were with digital optical cables. ARC does not pass Dolby HD or DTS Master Audio. When playing a game or movie, hit the info button on your receiver's remote. That should tell you what kind of sound is being processed. Dolby Digital is not the same as Dolby HD. Also, if you're streaming 4k netflix, odds are its not HD sound, but Dolby Digital instead. Not many streaming options offer HD sound. Check a 4K title in Netflix and see what kind of sound it offers.
5.1 does not mean HD?! Mind blown. Like seriously, I did not know this. So how do I know what's HD from not HD?

Played games on PS4 Pro and PS3 directly connected to the receiver and the receiver showed PCM. Played normal YouTube videos from Apple TV and sound via ARC from TV to receiver and the receiver showed PCM plus the audio setting in the receiver I chose, which was (the dolby digital symbol) PLII. Played Netflix from Apple TV and sound via ARC from TV and receiver showed (the dolby digital symbol in RED). Played a bluray and 3d bluray connected to the receiver and the receiver showed PCM.

Please take note that when I say the receiver showed (this), it's just showing on the receiver's LCD screen. My receiver does not have any info button on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,129 Posts
@Fizban19 speaks the truth; I suggest you do some reading (plenty on this forum, but you can try Dolby's website) to learn about "lossless vs lossy" audio formats. In addition, ARC is problematic and does not pass HD audio.
I think you're looking at an "end-to-end" upgrade if you want 4k. I did it a couple of years ago when HDMI 2.0a / HDMI 2.2 became widely available.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
179 Posts
5.1 does not mean HD?! Mind blown. Like seriously, I did not know this. So how do I know what's HD from not HD?
HD sound will be represented as Dolby TrueHD / Atmos, and DTS HD-MA / DTS:X. Older lossy formats passable over optical/coax and most ARC are Dolby Digital/DTS.

A quick check shows that your AVR supports the HD audio, but does appear like the immersive formats are covered (Atmos/DTS:X). As long as you are sending audio to the AVR over a capable link (read: HDMI) then you can get the lossless HD audio. ARC from the TV will likely result in the core stream (Lossy) audio being delivered to the AVR.

If you are getting a 4K TV and the budget allows, then get a updated AVR also.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,957 Posts
You can run HDMI to the TV and toslink to the receiver. You won't be able to get the optimum sound codec in some instances, but in reality, you probably won't notice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
803 Posts
Basic progression of Dolby sound would be:

Dolby Noise Reduction - Analog cassette tapes (remember those?)
Dolby Surround (Pro Logic) - VHS/Betamax, Laserdisc and some DVD's
Dolby Digital (lossy digital format)- Laserdisc, DVD, HD-DVD and some Bluray's, streaming services
Dolby Digital Plus (a little less lossy digital format) - HD-DVD, Bluray and some streaming services (namely VUDU I think)
Dolby TrueHD (only Dolby Lossless format) - HD-DVD, Bluray and 4K UHD Bluray and Kaleidescape service (only usable with Kaleidescape hardware). I am not sure if any other streaming format actually offers Dolby TrueHD but I don't think so at this time.
Dolby Atmos - an extension of both Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby TrueHD that has the ability to add overhead (height) channels to give you a more immersive listening experience. I can be both lossy or lossless depending on the source material. The Dolby Digital Plus w/Atmos is mostly used by streaming services (VUDU and not sure about Netflix) because it takes up less bandwidth (hence, lossy), whereas the Dolby TrueHD w/Atmos is used by Bluray and 4K UHD Bluray (HD-DVD died long before this even existed).

DTS will have a somewhat similar hierarchy (except the analog stuff since the 'D' in DTS stands for digital) with DTS HD Master Audio (MA) being the only lossless DTS format. There is also DTS HD High Resolution which is pretty much DTS's version of Dolby Digital Plus. It's higher resolution than plain ol' DTS but it is not lossless like DTS HD MA. A little misleading.

There is more to it, but that is the quick and dirty version. Hopefully that helps. Here is more information to look at if you care:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=41820
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,083 Posts
5.1 does not mean HD?! Mind blown. Like seriously, I did not know this. So how do I know what's HD from not HD?

Played games on PS4 Pro and PS3 directly connected to the receiver and the receiver showed PCM. Played normal YouTube videos from Apple TV and sound via ARC from TV to receiver and the receiver showed PCM
PCM over ARC is only stereo (2 channels of sound). ARC can provide 2.0 PCM and/or 5.1 (lossy) Dolby Digital depending on the design of the TV.
plus the audio setting in the receiver I chose, which was (the dolby digital symbol) PLII.
That means that your receiver is processing the 2.0 stereo PCM audio, "upmixing" it to make use of your additional speakers.
Played Netflix from Apple TV and sound via ARC from TV and receiver showed (the dolby digital symbol in RED).
That means that Netflix audio was coming from the Apple TV as lossy 5.1 Dolby Digital audio.
Played a bluray and 3d bluray connected to the receiver and the receiver showed PCM.
PCM over HDMI can be anything from monaural up to 7.1 multichannel audio, but when the receiver reports that it's receiving PCM, it means that your Blu-ray player (game machine) is decoding the audio that's coming off the disc, translating the original Dolby or DTS soundtrack into PCM. If the soundtrack on the disc is one of the lossless formats, then you'll get the same quality of lossless audio in the decoded (PCM) audio.

Please take note that when I say the receiver showed (this), it's just showing on the receiver's LCD screen. My receiver does not have any info button on it.
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top