Yes, you can get all that for $2k. Go for it if you don't mind a little front-end setup work.
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Should I go back to crt?
About four years age, I bought a Sony crt rptv (57 inch hdtv widescreen). I had a blast calibrating it on my own. I once completely messed up the geometry, but somehow, with dental floss taped across the screen, was able to get the geometry to be better than ever. I also marveled at the black level. It was somehow blacker than the darkness of my livingroom. Movies like The Lord of the Rings were amazing.
Then last year, I extended my living room, so that my once 10 foot viewing distance became 16 feet and my 57 inch crt tv looked tiny. I previously compared my crt tv to a dlp tv, side by side, in my living room. The dlp went back to Costco the next day. But now I felt that I had no choice but to get a digital projector, the Benq pe7700, in order to get the same perceived size from my new viewing distance. I presently have a 92 inch diagonal da-lite hcmw and a 106" diag graywolf.
No matter how much I try to like this projector, I just cannot due to the poor black level. It just ruins the whole effect of many of the movies I once enjoyed so much on my crt rptv.
Why did I never consider a crt projector? I thought they were way too expensive. But today, I scan this forum section and read about CurtPalme. Those prices for projectors seemed very reasonable. Now what do I do?
Sell my pe7700 and buy crt projector?
Could I get a crt projector to do the following for less than $2k?
1.display 720p and 1080i
2.hdcp compliant( I think I'll need some card to do this?)
3. as close to 10,000 hours left on the tubes as possible
4.16x9 aspect ratio
5.600 to 800 lumens
Seems like the Marquee 8500, Sony g70, and the Barco 808 are pretty popular.
Help please. If this is really possible, you don't know(maybe you do) how happy this would make me!
I know that digital razor sharpness of dlp won't be there in crt's, but are there any other differences that could affect my decesion?
Thank you for you attention.
Then last year, I extended my living room, so that my once 10 foot viewing distance became 16 feet and my 57 inch crt tv looked tiny. I previously compared my crt tv to a dlp tv, side by side, in my living room. The dlp went back to Costco the next day. But now I felt that I had no choice but to get a digital projector, the Benq pe7700, in order to get the same perceived size from my new viewing distance. I presently have a 92 inch diagonal da-lite hcmw and a 106" diag graywolf.
No matter how much I try to like this projector, I just cannot due to the poor black level. It just ruins the whole effect of many of the movies I once enjoyed so much on my crt rptv.
Why did I never consider a crt projector? I thought they were way too expensive. But today, I scan this forum section and read about CurtPalme. Those prices for projectors seemed very reasonable. Now what do I do?
Sell my pe7700 and buy crt projector?
Could I get a crt projector to do the following for less than $2k?
1.display 720p and 1080i
2.hdcp compliant( I think I'll need some card to do this?)
3. as close to 10,000 hours left on the tubes as possible
4.16x9 aspect ratio
5.600 to 800 lumens
Seems like the Marquee 8500, Sony g70, and the Barco 808 are pretty popular.
Help please. If this is really possible, you don't know(maybe you do) how happy this would make me!
I know that digital razor sharpness of dlp won't be there in crt's, but are there any other differences that could affect my decesion?
Thank you for you attention.
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I think you would have trouble getting 600 to 800 lumens, the brightest I know of crt wise is 500 lumens maybe but you'll have to spend 3 t 4 times that to get a crt that bright.
Otherwise, go crt!!
Otherwise, go crt!!
Quote:
1. yes
2. maybe but guess you will have to buy from different person to PJ
3.
if you are lucky
4. YES
5. Oh! STOP thinking DIGITAL!!!! brightness is NOT picture quality..........
| Originally Posted by johnsmith808 1.display 720p and 1080i 2.hdcp compliant( I think I'll need some card to do this?) 3. as close to 10,000 hours left on the tubes as possible 4.16x9 aspect ratio 5.600 to 800 lumens |
2. maybe but guess you will have to buy from different person to PJ
3.
if you are lucky4. YES
5. Oh! STOP thinking DIGITAL!!!! brightness is NOT picture quality..........
Quote:
That is a major benefit of RPTV, which you will not have with a FP system! The darkest black you will ever have is the "black" of your screen in your viewing environment.
If you do not have complete light control, ie when looking at the screen with the projector off, you can't see the screen, you will not have full fade to black.
If you are looking for a pj that will give you RPTV black level in an ambient light environment, CRT FP is not it!
| Originally Posted by johnsmith808 It was somehow blacker than the darkness of my livingroom. |
If you do not have complete light control, ie when looking at the screen with the projector off, you can't see the screen, you will not have full fade to black.
If you are looking for a pj that will give you RPTV black level in an ambient light environment, CRT FP is not it!
For what's it worth here's my take. Spend the extra money it takes to get a CRT front projector with new or very, very good tubes and make that a condition of your contract. If there is some burn (burned in line or image even if subtle) it will be distracting on white scenes.
A properly calibrated CRT FP will not do a complete fade to black in a light controlled room UNLESS you do some gamma correction which means that you need: a) a dvd player that has gamma settings; b) a scaler like the Lumagen; or c) a device like TSE's (do a search).
You might want to try a Da-lite high power screen (2.8 gain, but retro-reflective) for brightness, but to get the most out of it you'll need to hang your pj from the ceiling so its only a foot or two above your head (KBK style) or mount it a foot or two above the floor. Depending where you're sitting there may be some slight colour shift, which isn't noticeable on most material (some projectors like the G90 have settings to correct for this).
Personally I think you'd be better off buying a bigger (65 to 80 inch CRT) RPTV. You'll have to search to find one and you may have to buy used.
Cheers,
Grant
A properly calibrated CRT FP will not do a complete fade to black in a light controlled room UNLESS you do some gamma correction which means that you need: a) a dvd player that has gamma settings; b) a scaler like the Lumagen; or c) a device like TSE's (do a search).
You might want to try a Da-lite high power screen (2.8 gain, but retro-reflective) for brightness, but to get the most out of it you'll need to hang your pj from the ceiling so its only a foot or two above your head (KBK style) or mount it a foot or two above the floor. Depending where you're sitting there may be some slight colour shift, which isn't noticeable on most material (some projectors like the G90 have settings to correct for this).
Personally I think you'd be better off buying a bigger (65 to 80 inch CRT) RPTV. You'll have to search to find one and you may have to buy used.
Cheers,
Grant
some good points made so far, if your running a typical living room set-up with lots of light coming in then CRT is a poor choise. These machines are ideal for dedicated light controled theatre rooms. We need more info from you about your room, and also putting in your location would help .
CRT PJ's shine in a home theater enviroment, get away from that and you will have to make some adjustments.
An ideal HT is with no windows no lights and everything in the theater covered in black velvet. If you do all your watching at night, that is good. Once you start to introduce outside light there are some things you can do to make the image very watchable. You can go with a high gain screen, which rejects outside light, you can go with a smaller screen, you can drive the PJ real hard (just do not tell anyone here you are doing that), put as much light absorbing material in the room as possible (I can leave the lights on in my black velvet theater and still have a great image on the screen).
There are plenty of ways to get to where you want to be with a CRT PJ and the best part is you will be glad you did
Have fun, Deron.
An ideal HT is with no windows no lights and everything in the theater covered in black velvet. If you do all your watching at night, that is good. Once you start to introduce outside light there are some things you can do to make the image very watchable. You can go with a high gain screen, which rejects outside light, you can go with a smaller screen, you can drive the PJ real hard (just do not tell anyone here you are doing that), put as much light absorbing material in the room as possible (I can leave the lights on in my black velvet theater and still have a great image on the screen).
There are plenty of ways to get to where you want to be with a CRT PJ and the best part is you will be glad you did
Have fun, Deron.
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Not including the cost of the DVI/HDCP card, you can actually all those things for less then $500-700USD.
720p (45Khz), and 1080i (35Khz) are not very difficult signals for 90% of CRT projectors to sync to properly. Even most of the entry level PJ's will do this no problems.
They all can do 16x9 or any aspect ratio you want.
All but the very low end CRT projectors do at least 600 lumens. The ones you mention (8500/808) are over 1000 lumens.
Good luck!
Electrohome Marquee's and Barco 808's are both good choices. You would not be unhappy with either. Lots of spare parts to go around too.
Kal
| Originally Posted by johnsmith808 Could I get a crt projector to do the following for less than $2k? 1.display 720p and 1080i 2.hdcp compliant( I think I'll need some card to do this?) 3. as close to 10,000 hours left on the tubes as possible 4.16x9 aspect ratio 5.600 to 800 lumens |
720p (45Khz), and 1080i (35Khz) are not very difficult signals for 90% of CRT projectors to sync to properly. Even most of the entry level PJ's will do this no problems.
They all can do 16x9 or any aspect ratio you want.
All but the very low end CRT projectors do at least 600 lumens. The ones you mention (8500/808) are over 1000 lumens.
Good luck!
Electrohome Marquee's and Barco 808's are both good choices. You would not be unhappy with either. Lots of spare parts to go around too.
Kal
Quote:
Not if the OP is talking about ANSI lumens!
| Originally Posted by kal All but the very low end CRT projectors do at least 600 lumens. The ones you mention (8500/808) are over 1000 lumens. Kal |
Quote:
Only if you count peak lumens, which using will cause colorshift problems on images that are brighter than the smaller amount of white on black that is generally used for that peak lumens test, as well as requiring pushing the tubes hard (and lowering tube life). This is why there are ANSI lumens. While people can get brighter white with a window than full screen white with CRTs, the peak lumens numbers are mostly a marketing thing and I haven't seen anybody get a whole lot more ft-lamberts with a window than full screen white with a properly calibrated CRT. Those who don't mind wearing their tubes out early or having a hump in blue can push things hard toward peak lumens though.
That said, the BenQ 7700 probably puts out quite a bit less than its specs after calibration.
--Darin
| Originally Posted by kal All but the very low end CRT projectors do at least 600 lumens. The ones you mention (8500/808) are over 1000 lumens. |
That said, the BenQ 7700 probably puts out quite a bit less than its specs after calibration.
--Darin
Wow! This forum is unbelievable! Thanks for all of the replies.
To clarify my situation, I watch primarily at night and have dark curtains and black out blinds, no lights on, but my walls and carpet, ceiling are not dark colored. If the projector is off, I can't see a thing, including the screen.
I have an htpc with zoomplayer pro and can use powerstrip to adjust gamma. The lumens rating that I wanted was basically to say that I wanted a crt that wouldn't be so drastically dimmer than my pe7700 which has an advertised(I know it's a useless number in hometheater use) lumens of 1100. I actually have placed a hoya hd2 filter on the lense to cut the lightput in half and still find the image watchable, though. Of course, this was table mounted using an optoma(or panoview) graywolf, which is a retro-reflective gray screen with a 1.8 gain. By the way, I thought I read that gray screens cannot be used for crt projectors. Is this true?
Also, could anyone point me in the direction where I could purchase a crt projector that I have specified?
In addition, where would I get those hdpc cards?
Thanks again.
To clarify my situation, I watch primarily at night and have dark curtains and black out blinds, no lights on, but my walls and carpet, ceiling are not dark colored. If the projector is off, I can't see a thing, including the screen.
I have an htpc with zoomplayer pro and can use powerstrip to adjust gamma. The lumens rating that I wanted was basically to say that I wanted a crt that wouldn't be so drastically dimmer than my pe7700 which has an advertised(I know it's a useless number in hometheater use) lumens of 1100. I actually have placed a hoya hd2 filter on the lense to cut the lightput in half and still find the image watchable, though. Of course, this was table mounted using an optoma(or panoview) graywolf, which is a retro-reflective gray screen with a 1.8 gain. By the way, I thought I read that gray screens cannot be used for crt projectors. Is this true?
Also, could anyone point me in the direction where I could purchase a crt projector that I have specified?
In addition, where would I get those hdpc cards?
Thanks again.
Quote:
I think he is referring to HDCP from Moome and some others not HTPC. Do a search on it.
| Originally Posted by johnsmith808 In addition, where would I get those hdpc cards? Thanks again. |
Quote:
Oh no, not again
John it sounds like your ready to go, just don't use a gray screen, you want CRT white. Make your own screen with Goo paint and it will beat a lot of commercial models.
| Originally Posted by darinp2 Only if you count peak lumens, which using will cause colorshift problems on images that are brighter than the smaller amount of white on black that is generally used for that peak lumens test, as well as requiring pushing the tubes hard (and lowering tube life). This is why there are ANSI lumens. --Darin |
John it sounds like your ready to go, just don't use a gray screen, you want CRT white. Make your own screen with Goo paint and it will beat a lot of commercial models.
Something like the Benq pe7700 is a pretty nice digital. My gut tells me that although an 8" CRT will look smoother and have better black level, you're overall impression of say a Marquee compared to the Benq pe7700 might not be all that impressive to you.
I've owned many CRTs and to tell you the truth, I've had to set brightness higher on all of them in order to see good black detail which means they no longer have great black levels. Someone may say this is a setup issue but I don't buy that. I am not saying that I can do a setup as good as a pro but there are certian things you learn after you've done it a hundred times and one thing I've learned is that even in a pitch black room with dark walls and black velvet curtains, there is a balance that needs to be reached between black level and black detail.
So my point is that the black level of a CRT (when compared to your CRT TV) may not excite you.
My issues with digitals these days has more to do with the cost of bulbs than black level or PQ.
I've owned many CRTs and to tell you the truth, I've had to set brightness higher on all of them in order to see good black detail which means they no longer have great black levels. Someone may say this is a setup issue but I don't buy that. I am not saying that I can do a setup as good as a pro but there are certian things you learn after you've done it a hundred times and one thing I've learned is that even in a pitch black room with dark walls and black velvet curtains, there is a balance that needs to be reached between black level and black detail.
So my point is that the black level of a CRT (when compared to your CRT TV) may not excite you.
My issues with digitals these days has more to do with the cost of bulbs than black level or PQ.
Quote:
I do not get it, is the black level of a CRT TV supposed to be better then a CRT PJ?
Deron.
| Originally Posted by Rinx So my point is that the black level of a CRT (when compared to your CRT TV) may not excite you. |
Deron.
Quote:
you think a BenQ can outperform a Marquee 8500? just out of curiosity, I would like to know what CRT models you have owned in the past if you don't mind me asking.
| Originally Posted by Rinx Something like the Benq pe7700 is a pretty nice digital. My gut tells me that although an 8" CRT will look smoother and have better black level, you're overall impression of say a Marquee compared to the Benq pe7700 might not be all that impressive to you. I've owned many CRTs and to tell you the truth, I've had to set brightness higher on all of them in order to see good black detail which means they no longer have great black levels. |
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This is one reason people around here are using circuits or other gamma tweaks down low to help this tradeoff with CRTs. Those should help quite a bit.
--Darin
| Originally Posted by Rinx I am not saying that I can do a setup as good as a pro but there are certian things you learn after you've done it a hundred times and one thing I've learned is that even in a pitch black room with dark walls and black velvet curtains, there is a balance that needs to be reached between black level and black detail. |
--Darin
As Darin says, you should be able to reach a good tradeoff with superior black-outs and still good shadow detail. If you are trying to maintain ALL the shadow detail, then you may end up preferring something with higher ANSI, but I don't think the original poster is desiring that as he seems to value full fade to black capability. It sounds like CRT is the correct move for both the viewing preferences and the limited budget.
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