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should or shouldnt

3322 Views 52 Replies 17 Participants Last post by  Xae
I received an e-mail from Doug Welles saying he'll be in my area next month and wanted to know if I was still considering having my TV calibrated. At the time of our first e-mail exchanges I hadn't even decided what I was going to buy yet. That was 3 months ago and I ended up buying a 58 inch Panasonic Plasma. Man, I couldn't ever be happier than the picture I have now. It's truly beyond amazing.


So with that said, how many of you would advice me to go ahead and get it done and how many of you would say don't worry about it? Again, I don't think I could be any happier with whatever it is he does especially for the cost which i understand is $300+.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhornick /forum/post/12831263


I received an e-mail from Doug Welles saying he'll be in my area next month and wanted to know if I was still considering having my TV calibrated. At the time of our first e-mail exchanges I hadn't even decided what I was going to buy yet. That was 3 months ago and I ended up buying a 58 inch Panasonic Plasma. Man, I couldn't ever be happier than the picture I have now. It's truly beyond amazing.


So with that said, how many of you would advice me to go ahead and get it done and how many of you would say don't worry about it? Again, I don't think I could be any happier with whatever it is he does especially for the cost which i understand is $300+.

I have a 58" Panasonic Plasma as well and I am in the same boat. $300 is a lot to spend. I wish there was a way to preview a ISF calibrated set before I get it done.
Greetings


You either want image accuracy or you don't. If you are happy with what you have as it is ... then you are not a candidate for professional calibration.


Calibration is not about getting you an image that you necessarily like ... it is about making it look the way it is supposed to look. Liking it really has nothing to do with it.


What is the answer to the question of 2+2=? Calibration Gives you "4" ... It is what it is ...


Fortunately if the calibration is presented the proper way, the client will have a much greater understanding of the process as well as the "why" aspect of it.


That said ... providing a person with a calibrated image, but not the knowledge that is needed along with it, the value of the calibrated image withers away. Answers without understanding of the question are not worth very much.


So if you don't (even half) understand why you should be getting it calibrated ... then you probably should not do it.


Regards
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I understand the reasoning behind calibration, but it doesn't mean that I might like a calibrated picture. It's a lot of money to spend to find out that a correct image might not be the image that I really enjoy.


Before I get flamed, let me make an analogy. Let's say I go to a 5 star restaraunt and the chef makes me a special dish. If I add salt to that dish, I am messing up with the chef's intention? Does that mean that I won't like my food better with extra salt?


That said, I am still very interested in getting it done. Unfortunatly, I have never seen an ISF'd set. I would love to see a before and after.
Greetings


Then you really are not a candidate for professional calibration as well.


When presented correctly, a client is taken through the entire calibration process step by step ... buying in ... as it were to each step.


When you understand each step ... and why it is set that way ... you end up where you end up. Both with a calibrated image and with more knowledge as well. You also get to know which parameters have limitations and why somethings are not set in stone.


You are asking to see the image ... but without the necessary knowledge ...


Regards
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV /forum/post/12831981


Greetings


Then you really are not a candidate for professional calibration as well.


When presented correctly, a client is taken through the entire calibration process step by step ... buying in ... as it were to each step.


When you understand each step ... and why it is set that way ... you end up where you end up. Both with a calibrated image and with more knowledge as well. You also get to know which parameters have limitations and why somethings are not set in stone.


You are asking to see the image ... but without the necessary knowledge ...


Regards

Yoda, I like you a lot, I really do but we have to work on your sales pitch!


I understand the science behind calibration and the reasoning for it. However, it is not too much to ask to see a before and after.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV /forum/post/12831718


Greetings


You either want image accuracy or you don't. If you are happy with what you have as it is ... then you are not a candidate for professional calibration.


Calibration is not about getting you an image that you necessarily like ... it is about making it look the way it is supposed to look. Liking it really has nothing to do with it.


What is the answer to the question of 2+2=? Calibration Gives you "4" ... It is what it is ...


Fortunately if the calibration is presented the proper way, the client will have a much greater understanding of the process as well as the "why" aspect of it.


That said ... providing a person with a calibrated image, but not the knowledge that is needed along with it, the value of the calibrated image withers away. Answers without understanding of the question are not worth very much.


So if you don't (even half) understand why you should be getting it calibrated ... then you probably should not do it.


Regards

Why wouldn't I like a properly calibrate picture more than an ucalibrated picture? It doesn't make sense. If I am seeing the picture in the best possible way, then I should like it.


You're not selling it very well!
Greetings


I am not trying to sell you on anything ... most that want calibration have already convinced themselves that it is something they want. You have not.


Seeing the end result without the necessary knowledge is meaningless. You are not in a position to make an informed decision about its worth.


If you think you are ... then calibration really isn't for you.


A calibrated TV in a sea of incorrectly set up blue TVs is the only one that looks wrong.


regards
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I am convinced that I want it, but I am not convinced that the picture will be that much better. I am wondering if the $300 could be better spent.


Asking to see a before and after AND understanding what I am seeing is not that much to ask.


I have never seen an ISF calibrated set. Understanding and seeing are two different things.
Greetings


And this leads to ... The two biggest questions on people's minds when they want to consider professional calibration.


Q1. Will I see a difference?


Q2. Will I like what a calibrated image looks like?


A1A. No one without actually looking at your TV set up knows what your TV image looks like. I don't know what state the TV comes in out of the box ... and I don't know what image modes you are using so without that bit of information ... how can any calibrator tell you one way or another ... especially over the phone or email.


A1B. Subjectivity ... Value Judgement. Small changes to some people are proclaimed to be night and day improvements. Large changes to other people bring yawns and statements like ... "I don't see a difference." What type of a person are you? Unless we can see the world through your eyes ... this part cannot be answered as a yes.


A2. Professional calibration is about trying to get the image to be as accurate as possible. As faithful to what the film makers want the image to look like within the limitations of the TV world. It is about making 2+2=4. Nothing more. No one can guarantee that you will like what 2+2=4 represents. Maybe you like the answer to be 9 ... or 90 or 9999 ... because those answers please you more. Calibration is about getting it as accurate as possible within the limitations of your TV set. That is it. Get the image parameters to meet the proper setting standards.


Regards
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There is still way too much misunderstanding and misinformation about display calibration in the consumer electronics market and this forum. This is not something only a "Yoda" can understand. It's not science fiction or mysticism. Simple logic may seem foreign to many consumers because they have grown up on encouragement to "follow your heart," "do your own thing," "trust your feelings," "beauty is in the eye of the beholder," "different strokes for different folks," etc., etc.


You either value image fidelity on its own merits or consider personal preference of greater importance. The whole purpose of display accuracy is to preserve image fidelity, not to appeal to each individual viewer's unique taste.


A TV does not produce the program. It should be a neutral instrument that allows us to experience a program the way it was designed by the original artist. The viewer does not produce the art. Would you consider for an instant wearing colored glasses on a tour of The Louvre? Could many elements of the works of art there be enjoyed with colored glasses? Certainly. Wouldn't most viewers prefer to view those art works as the originator intended, rather than tinted?


U2 front man, Bono, is usually photographed wearing tinted glasses of various colors. It appears he lives his life this way most or all of the time. He wouldn't be a good candidate for display calibration, based upon the value of image accuracy, unless he watches TV without colored lenses.


Many calibrators have for years promoted their services as a way to get "better looking" pictures from a display. Wouldn't you like to get a better image from your TV? What about the many complainers on this and other forums who consider their calibrated TV too dark, or that the colors now don't "pop?" There have been many dissatisfied calibration customers advising others to avoid calibration services altogether. "Just trust your eyes," has been the mantra.


I have become convinced over the years that "better" has to be more clearly, accurately, and honestly defined. That is what Michael is doing as well. An educated consumer is far less likely to be a disappointed consumer. A "sold" consumer is frequently a disappointed one. With a calibrated TV you are getting a more accurate picture that will more faithfully convey video programs as they were conceived. Calibration has nothing to do with individual taste or a personal concept of what "better" is. In the world of imaging science and display industry standards, neutral is correct. A monitor that alters the signal fed to it is wrong. What goes in should come out. Any change to the original program induced by the display is correctly understood as distortion. Many consumers prefer distorted television pictures. Calibration will remove or reduce image distortion. Will you like the picture? That's completely irrelevant.


When you pay a technician to calibrate a display, it's his objective to make it perform according to video industry standards and introduce as little distortion to the program as possible. You can fiddle with the user adjustments to your heart's content after he leaves. At least the calibrator did his job, earned his fee and provided a reference set of picture settings that provide for optimum image fidelity from that display. If you want to feel better about how your TV looks, perhaps you could call Dr. Phil.


If you want to see if you "like" how a calibrated image appears, perhaps you could arrange a tour of your local TV station. Just ask them to show you a calibrated broadcast monitor. If you want to see how your TV looks after calibration, you will need to hire someone to adjust it properly. If you want to hear how your piano sounds after it is tuned, you would have a difficult time finding a professional tuner willing to perform the service, then also be willing to fore-go being paid for his time if you decide you prefer the way it sounds untuned.


Best regards and beautiful pictures,

G. Alan Brown, President

CinemaQuest, Inc.


"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
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My point is that If I want to hear what a properly tuned piano sounds like, I can go to a store and hear one. I can't do that with a TV! I have no idea what an accurate image is.


Perhaps if an ISF tech could come in and show me PMS color matched photo of what his goal image is then that would help me make up my mind. He could explain that this image is a goal only and my set may not look this good but he will do his best to get it as close as possible.


I think that this entire thread is why most people will NEVER get their set ISF calibrated. You are so hung up on education and not promised results. You don't have to explain the process to me, because I really don't care. All I want is the best picture (best being most accurate) that my set can produce. I want good contrast, deep blacks, accurate colors! Show me a display that has been calibrate to show these and you will sell me on the service.

Quote:
I think that this entire thread is why most people will NEVER get their set ISF calibrated.

Good! They probably wouldn't "like" an accurate image, would want a refund and trash the craft on the internet.


"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." H.L. Mencken
Is it really too much to ask for what the expected results are? To actually demonstrate what you should have after the process??? A picture! That is all that I am asking for. I don't want a description of a picture, but something that I can see.


How do I know if he did a good job without a picture to compare it to? An ISF tech could probably make a lot more if he had a store where he could display a before and after set.


There is a store about 2 hours from where I live where they do this. I am probably going to go there this weekend to take a look. They sell Panasonics and have two sets on display that show out of the box calibration done with DVE and what an ISF calibrated set looks like. They said that I am free to mess with the non ISF set so I can see if I can get it closer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB /forum/post/12833493


Good! They probably wouldn't "like" an accurate image, would want a refund and trash the craft on the internet.


"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." H.L. Mencken

I'm NOT trashing it at all. I totally understand it, I just want to see if it is worth the $300.
You can buy a probe like the display 2 and use the included software to automatically calibrate your computer monitor. This is about the only way to preview what a calibration could look like. Think about this, how can you preview a calibrated image if you don't have a calibrated monitor to view it on in the first place? The only real way to see what your particular TV would look like calibrated is for a calibrator to come to your house and go through all the work to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sperron /forum/post/12833734


You can buy a probe like the display 2 and use the included software to automatically calibrate your computer monitor. This is about the only way to preview what a calibration could look like. Think about this, how can you preview a calibrated image if you don't have a calibrated monitor to view it on in the first place? The only real way to see what your particular TV would look like calibrated is for a calibrator to come to your house and go through all the work to do it.

I am not concerned so much with my set will look like calibrated as I am with what the goal is. I want to see what an accurate image is, so then I can make an informed decision. After I know what the goal is, I can look at my set and decided if it is worth the money to spend to get to this goal.


When I got my basement finished, the contractor I used invited me over to a house he was working on to check out his work. Or when my wife and I were getting married, our party planner invited us to an even he was running. I got to see what these people were capable of. Of coures I knew that my basement and party would be different, but I got an idea of what the end result could be like.
Call around to some high end A/V stores in your area and ask if they have a calibrated set you can come out and look at.

Quote:
I wish there was a way to preview a ISF calibrated set before I get it done.
Quote:
There is a store about 2 hours from where I live where they do this. I am probably going to go there this weekend to take a look. They sell Panasonics and have two sets on display that show out of the box calibration done with DVE and what an ISF calibrated set looks like. They said that I am free to mess with the non ISF set so I can see if I can get it closer.

So why all the drama?
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