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Thanks, is there any reason I wouldn't be buying the kit from PE? $355 for the Ultimax bundle, vs $305 for HT18 ($160, looks like that includes shipping?) and DIYSoundgroup flatpack ($120 + 45 shipping).

Also, am I crazy or does data-bass show the HT18 doing better than the Ultimax?
The SI HT18 bundle comes to $325 right? From HT18 to UM18 in a sealed box will be very similar, in a vented the UM18 can take more power and thus more output. Also the PE cabinet is supplied by DIYSG and is the same flatpack so the differences are really only in the driver. Can't really go wrong with either.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/2013593-18a-subwoofer-dayton-um18-22-si-ht-18-a.html
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/2128906-ht18-um18-what-kind-noticeable-differences-if-any.html
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?245195-Which-18-quot-subwoofer
 

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Thanks, is there any reason I wouldn't be buying the kit from PE? $355 for the Ultimax bundle, vs $305 for HT18 ($160, looks like that includes shipping?) and DIYSoundgroup flatpack ($120 + 45 shipping).

Also, am I crazy or does data-bass show the HT18 doing better than the Ultimax?
Yes, that would be wrong. :) Also, D-B only has measurements of the prototype HT18 D2, which doesn't measure the same as recent production D4s.
 

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I trimmed the internal braces back about 3/4" in roughly a 9" diameter circle. I think a little less would have sufficed based on the shape of the back of the motor, but it seemed to work ok.
Awesome build!
I will be building the same(sealed 4cuft HST18) over the next couple of weeks. I will be using the same flat pack. What did you use to trim the braces down with? Did you take any pics of the finished trim?
 

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Discussion Starter #205
Awesome build!
I will be building the same(sealed 4cuft HST18) over the next couple of weeks. I will be using the same flat pack. What did you use to trim the braces down with? Did you take any pics of the finished trim?
No pictures of the trimmed bracing. If I recall, I drilled a pilot hole on either side of the area I wanted to trim back, and used a jig saw to connect the dots. I think I could have gotten by with slightly less material trimmed out, which would have kept the bracing more rigid. In the end though, I think the bracing is well designed and still quite sturdy compared to many completely DIY attempts I have seen. If I had to do it over again, I suppose you could dry fit the box together with clamps and leave one side out to check clearances.
 

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Discussion Starter #206
Thanks, is there any reason I wouldn't be buying the kit from PE? $355 for the Ultimax bundle, vs $305 for HT18 ($160, looks like that includes shipping?) and DIYSoundgroup flatpack ($120 + 45 shipping).

Also, am I crazy or does data-bass show the HT18 doing better than the Ultimax?
I would choose the UM-18 over the HT-18 if I were building one now. However, I feel that the HST-18 is by far the most capable driver in the deep bass for home theater in a small sealed box. I have said this several times but it is easy to get lost in so many posts within a thread, but I picked up 7 dB of output from a single HT-18 to a single HST-18 with much lower distortion and zero compression, using the same amp.

The only drawback of the HST-18, if I were to try and point one out, is that they are not as efficient up top, but no worse than similar drivers.
 

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Hey bear,

I got the same SI-HT18 D2 due to the close-out (and also wanted to have some fun with DIY).

I'll be placing it nearfield and integrating it with my other two subs (PSA). I will definitely be reading through your thread again.

At the moment, I only have the driver. Still need to buy/make the enclosure (4ft^3 sealed flat pack from DIYSoundgroup, most likely), find an amp and all the other goodies.

What would you recommend for an amp to drive one and only one HT18 D2? I'm thinking that I could use it to power just it, for now, and perhaps use it to power my mains in the future. Just a thought.

Thanks. Oh, and that HST-18 looks freaking awesome, btw.
 

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No pictures of the trimmed bracing. If I recall, I drilled a pilot hole on either side of the area I wanted to trim back, and used a jig saw to connect the dots. I think I could have gotten by with slightly less material trimmed out, which would have kept the bracing more rigid. In the end though, I think the bracing is well designed and still quite sturdy compared to many completely DIY attempts I have seen. If I had to do it over again, I suppose you could dry fit the box together with clamps and leave one side out to check clearances.
Thanks for the tip! One of my enclosures is already put together, so I will have to shave it down while the box is together. I wonder if I could use a dremel tool to do it?
 

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I would choose the UM-18 over the HT-18 if I were building one now. However, I feel that the HST-18 is by far the most capable driver in the deep bass for home theater in a small sealed box. I have said this several times but it is easy to get lost in so many posts within a thread, but I picked up 7 dB of output from a single HT-18 to a single HST-18 with much lower distortion and zero compression, using the same amp.

The only drawback of the HST-18, if I were to try and point one out, is that they are not as efficient up top, but no worse than similar drivers.

One thing that is making me lean towards the HT-18 is the ohm load. They offer dual 2 ohm and dual 4 ohm options. Looks like the UM-18 only offer dual 2 ohm so you are always running a 4-ohm parallel load per sub, which doesn't seem to be a great fit for the iNuke if you want 1000 watts RMS per sub. So here are some amp comparisons:

iNuke 6000 DSP , $399, can run:
- two UM-18s at 4 ohms and 2000 watts RMS per channel (more power than the UM-18 needs)
or
- Four HT-18s (two subs per channel), get 1000 watts RMS per sub at 4 ohm load. Note WinISD shows max SPL and excursion to be roughly equal with HT-18 @ 1000 watts and UM-18 @1500 watts in the 113 liter enclosure (4 cubic feet).

Multiple iNuke 3000 DSP would give you the same result for more money.

It just seems like the dual 4-ohm options of the SI subs are a much better match for the iNuke amps if you want to run four subs. If you are only looking for two subs, the cost isn't much different. Am I missing anything here?
 

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Discussion Starter #210
Hey bear,

I got the same SI-HT18 D2 due to the close-out (and also wanted to have some fun with DIY).

I'll be placing it nearfield and integrating it with my other two subs (PSA). I will definitely be reading through your thread again.

At the moment, I only have the driver. Still need to buy/make the enclosure (4ft^3 sealed flat pack from DIYSoundgroup, most likely), find an amp and all the other goodies.

What would you recommend for an amp to drive one and only one HT18 D2? I'm thinking that I could use it to power just it, for now, and perhaps use it to power my mains in the future. Just a thought.

Thanks. Oh, and that HST-18 looks freaking awesome, btw.
A bridged 1000 would drive it fine. One channel of a 3000 would drive it and leave a channel open for future upgrades, $80 difference.
 

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Discussion Starter #211
One thing that is making me lean towards the HT-18 is the ohm load. They offer dual 2 ohm and dual 4 ohm options. Looks like the UM-18 only offer dual 2 ohm so you are always running a 4-ohm parallel load per sub, which doesn't seem to be a great fit for the iNuke if you want 1000 watts RMS per sub. So here are some amp comparisons:

iNuke 6000 DSP , $399, can run:
- two UM-18s at 4 ohms and 2000 watts RMS per channel (more power than the UM-18 needs)
or
- Four HT-18s (two subs per channel), get 1000 watts RMS per sub at 4 ohm load. Note WinISD shows max SPL and excursion to be roughly equal with HT-18 @ 1000 watts and UM-18 @1500 watts in the 113 liter enclosure (4 cubic feet).

Multiple iNuke 3000 DSP would give you the same result for more money.

It just seems like the dual 4-ohm options of the SI subs are a much better match for the iNuke amps if you want to run four subs. If you are only looking for two subs, the cost isn't much different. Am I missing anything here?
I personally don't think the inukes are going to perform well with a 2 ohm load, I would rather have them at 4 ohms, regardless of what Behringer claims.

The Inuke6000 is nearly perfect for the UM-18's at 4 ohms. You are not going to get a true 2000 wpc long term continuous power with both channels driven. More like 1200 with sine wave testing, but on source material I think 15-1800 is more realistic, which the UM-18's should handle just fine.....the HT-18's not so much.

I don't think trying to run sine waves long term with both channels is really an accurate way to determine capability though, and I don't think any company uses this procedure for their amplifier specs. The 240 volt version was thoroughly tested and resulted in about 1800 watts/channel @ 4 ohms for bass duty with 1/3 duty cycle, which is more rigorous than most rating protocols. So the 120 volt is likely a little less than that.
 
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The I Nukes do well with a 4 ohms load as Bear stated in my experience. I have the UM 18's and SI HT 18 and like both. The SI drivers are a tad weaker but, not by much in my sealed boxes. SQ is great with either driver. The sale price on the SI driver makes them very attractive. For a vented box, I prefer the UM 18's.
 

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I personally don't think the inukes are going to perform well with a 2 ohm load, I would rather have them at 4 ohms, regardless of what Behringer claims.

The Inuke6000 is nearly perfect for the UM-18's at 4 ohms. You are not going to get a true 2000 wpc long term continuous power with both channels driven. More like 1200 with sine wave testing, but on source material I think 15-1800 is more realistic, which the UM-18's should handle just fine.....the HT-18's not so much.

I don't think trying to run sine waves long term with both channels is really an accurate way to determine capability though, and I don't think any company uses this procedure for their amplifier specs. The 240 volt version was thoroughly tested and resulted in about 1800 watts/channel @ 4 ohms for bass duty with 1/3 duty cycle, which is more rigorous than most rating protocols. So the 120 volt is likely a little less than that.
To be clear, they would not be running at a 2 ohm load. Was figuring dual 2 ohm voice coils of the UM-18 in parallel for a a 4-ohm load on the 6000...per channel. I guess my point was if you go with the HT-18(D4) voicecoils in series, then parallel the two subs you can run two HT-18s(D4) per channel with 1000 watts going to each. So, if four subs are desired the HT-18 allows you to use a single 6000, whereas the UM-18 with four subs might require two 6000 amps to drive them, so the savings is larger than just the woofer cost.

***UM-18 is dual 2 ohm voicecoil only, whereas HT18 offers d4 and d2***
 

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To be clear, they would not be running at a 2 ohm load. Was figuring dual 2 ohm voice coils of the UM-18 in parallel for a a 4-ohm load on the 6000...per channel. I guess my point was if you go with the HT-18(D4) voicecoils in series, then parallel the two subs you can run two HT-18s(D4) per channel with 1000 watts going to each. So, if four subs are desired the HT-18 allows you to use a single 6000, whereas the UM-18 with four subs might require two 6000 amps to drive them, so the savings is larger than just the woofer cost.

***UM-18 is dual 2 ohm voicecoil only, whereas HT18 offers d4 and d2***
Wait...doesn't wiring in parallel halve the impedance while wiring in series doubles it?

2ohm+2ohm in parallel = 1ohm load
while
2ohm+2ohm in series = 4ohm load

If not, then I have been doing it wrong for YEARS...
 

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Wait...doesn't wiring in parallel halve the impedance while wiring in series doubles it?

2ohm+2ohm in parallel = 1ohm load
while
2ohm+2ohm in series = 4ohm load

If not, then I have been doing it wrong for YEARS...
Ha!
No, what I was saying is that if you run two SI-18-D4 per channel on the 6000 you could wire the voicecoils in series, then then the subs in parallel:

4ohm+4ohm voicecoils in series = 8 ohm per sub ----> 8ohm sub + 8 ohm sub in parallel= 4 ohm load on amp

So in that case you are getting a 4-ohm load on the 6000, but running two subs per channel or four total. That would be 2200 watts RMS per channel, 1100 watts RMS per sub on the SI18. SI18 rated at 600 watts per channel so plenty of power to max out all four drivers.

Now Compare the UM-18-d2 with one driver per channel, two total subs.

2ohm+2ohm voicecoils in series = 4 ohm per sub

So in that case you are getting a 4-ohm load on the 6000, but running one sub per channel or two total. That would be 2200 watts RMS per channel, 2200 watts RMS per sub on the UM-18. The UM-18 rated at 1500 watts per channel so again, plenty of power to max out the drivers, BUT you are powering two drivers instead of four with the SI-18.

If you were to model two of the UM-18 compared to four of the SI-18 the output is much greater with the four SI-18 and this amp. I guess my only point is the SI18s are much more efficient with the iNuke 6000 amp. Irrelevant if you aren't going for max output to for cost.

With all that said I'll probably just go with two UM-18s on a 6000 since SIs aren't going to be made anymore.
 
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