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Discussion Starter #62
Bear any reason why you didn't use a veneer? I wonder how come more people don't take this route. I realize that it's probably a little harder and more time consuming, but I would think the results would be worth it. Not knocking your job on the SI 18" as I think it looks good. Just curious!
Time, budget, and expertise. Also, my subs are somewhat hidden in my room, so appearance is not a huge concern.
 

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Discussion Starter #63
Nice looking sub...the output around the XV15se port tune area looks to be a lateral move. However you gained more output above and below that point so it still looks like a winner to me!! The 18 also just looks much more bad ass anyway!! :)


I vote build a LLT 18 tuned around 14-15hz next!!
Not enough room....the 4ft^3 sealed is pushing it, can't go any larger. And honestly, I'm really impressed with the output of the single sealed 18.....very tactile, at least as much as the dual ported subs. Adding another with the higher output HST-18 driver should give me more than I need. In fact, I think adding another with the same HT-18 driver would probably be enough. I just need to get the pro amp and AVR plugged into a smart power strip so it will turn on and off with the AVR. I might even mount the amp in the basement near the ceiling just underneath the area where my AVR is so I don't have to worry about fan noise or overheating the amp with the fan mods.
 

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looks good, like a little dorm fridge :)
 

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Discussion Starter #69
Yes. Looking forward to another opinion on these two head to head. Once again, nice work.
I have a pretty good idea now of what the SI-18 will do in my room, so I should be able to get a good comparison when I get the other one built with the HST.

With zero compression, the single HT-18 produced 103.4 dB at 20 Hz in my room, and 110 dB at 10 Hz.

On the next sweep, with 1.5 dB of compression at 20 Hz and 2 dB at 10 Hz, it did 107 @ 20 Hz and 113 @ 10 Hz. Since I had compression setting in I did not sweep any higher, knowing that the Inuke6000 is providing more power than the driver can handle.

By comparison, my dual ported subs were compressing heavily past 108 db @ 20 Hz, peaking at around 110. Below 16 Hz, the SI18 pulls ahead in output.

Watching the Avengers at my normal volume of -15 to -10 with the sub 5 dB hot, the LFE was VERY tactile and satisfying. I did not notice a reduction in effect in comparison to the two 15" ported subs.

I mentioned earlier that my FR is too poor to bother posting, and I have not(and probably will not) taken the time to integrate the sealed 18 with the other ported 15 I still have.

Of course, we already have a good idea of the output difference based on Data-bass testing, but I will still be interested to see the difference with more common amplification. I'm not sure if I will get so in depth as to do critical listening between the two subs other than some movie demos....I'm sure I will be eager to get them both set up and integrated together. Getting to be past income tax season, so hopefully my other sub sells soon.

Anyone that would like to help the cause, feel free to post in my for sale thread occasionally. :)
 

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Thanks for your thread. The cabinet looks great and I like that you did not have to fill the external seams. (That's my kind of paint). My existing subs have the same finish.

I will be either using the HT or HST18's in a dual opposed box.

What are the little do-hickies you used to attach the driver to the cabinet?

4 Submersives weren't enough??????


I'm interested in reading about your impressions of diy vs submersives. I may be considering either of those options if I build a new house with ht in the near future...
 

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Build looks great, congrats! Very interesting to hear that you find it more tactile than your ported?

Interested to hear your thoughts on comparing your DIY sealed sub vs the sealed subs you had prior to the XV15SE?

Also, looks as though you've got some significant gain down low (16hz and below) compare to the XV. Do you notice any difference yet? How about at your XV's sweet spot...how does the single compare subjectively?
 

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I have a pretty good idea now of what the SI-18 will do in my room, so I should be able to get a good comparison when I get the other one built with the HST.

With zero compression, the single HT-18 produced 103.4 dB at 20 Hz in my room, and 110 dB at 10 Hz.

On the next sweep, with 1.5 dB of compression at 20 Hz and 2 dB at 10 Hz, it did 107 @ 20 Hz and 113 @ 10 Hz. Since I had compression setting in I did not sweep any higher, knowing that the Inuke6000 is providing more power than the driver can handle.

By comparison, my dual ported subs were compressing heavily past 108 db @ 20 Hz, peaking at around 110. Below 16 Hz, the SI18 pulls ahead in output.

Watching the Avengers at my normal volume of -15 to -10 with the sub 5 dB hot, the LFE was VERY tactile and satisfying. I did not notice a reduction in effect in comparison to the two 15" ported subs.

I mentioned earlier that my FR is too poor to bother posting, and I have not(and probably will not) taken the time to integrate the sealed 18 with the other ported 15 I still have.

Of course, we already have a good idea of the output difference based on Data-bass testing, but I will still be interested to see the difference with more common amplification. I'm not sure if I will get so in depth as to do critical listening between the two subs other than some movie demos....I'm sure I will be eager to get them both set up and integrated together. Getting to be past income tax season, so hopefully my other sub sells soon.

Anyone that would like to help the cause, feel free to post in my for sale thread occasionally. :)
dual XV15se should not be compressing around 108db @ 20hz when a single can hit 107db @ 20hz 2m rms. Maybe you have a cancellation present in that frequency range.

Also I doubt the Inuke is anywhere close to overpowering that driver. That amp is not putting out it's rated power for any real length of time. There is documented information of the Inuke being tested proving this. Those amps throttle back about 50% of their RMS rating after a couple seconds.
 

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Discussion Starter #73
dual XV15se should not be compressing around 108db @ 20hz when a single can hit 107db @ 20hz 2m rms. Maybe you have a cancellation present in that frequency range.

Also I doubt the Inuke is anywhere close to overpowering that driver. That amp is not putting out it's rated power for any real length of time. There is documented information of the Inuke being tested proving this. Those amps throttle back about 50% of their RMS rating after a couple seconds.
Actually, I read a pretty thorough test of the Inuke6000dsp...it will put out a real world 1800 or so watts/channel into 4 ohms long term RMS with both channels driven. I imagine it will burst a bit higher than that but I don't recall that particular portion of the testing that was done. So its definitely not doing 6000 watts rms, but 1800x2 rms both channels driven with strong dsp capability for $360 is not too shabby. Pretty sure it would be more than enough power to melt my driver. From the testing:

"To summarise, for music signals, both channels driven, you can expect an output of:

Behringer:
1.37kW into 8 Ohms, 2.05kW into 4 Ohms for full-range or mid-top duty
1.16kW into 8 Ohms, 1.80kW into 4 Ohms for Bass duty"


I'll have to fire up the single XV I have left and do a max output compression sweep to see how it compares to the duals.
 

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Discussion Starter #74
Build looks great, congrats! Very interesting to hear that you find it more tactile than your ported?

Interested to hear your thoughts on comparing your DIY sealed sub vs the sealed subs you had prior to the XV15SE?

Also, looks as though you've got some significant gain down low (16hz and below) compare to the XV. Do you notice any difference yet? How about at your XV's sweet spot...how does the single compare subjectively?
Well, I have to say I am a bit surprised at the output and tactile effect of the single sub. I watched Star Trek today, and have to say I can't recall the dual XV's hitting any harder. The tactile-ness is very impressive....I was expecting a noticeable reduction from only running one sub with absolutely no house curve or boosting on the low end at all. I imagine that whatever output it might have lost in a narrow band near 20 Hz must be made up for by increased output in the mid to low teens. The previous sealed sub was no where close....the XV's were dramatically more tactile than the sealed sub I had. So I have to say that I am VERY pleasantly surprised. I think i would actually be very content just adding another HT-18, although I am leaning heavily towards an HST-18 for the next one.
 

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Discussion Starter #77
Very interesting considering you were such an avid ported fan. Look forward to reading more. :)
I still believe ported is still the best option for most people buying ID subs for home theater duty with typical budgets under $2500. It's just hard to get enough output from sealed outside of DIY or spending a lot of money. Like you though, I am pleasantly surprised by my results, as I definitely went into this expecting to notice a drop in tactile oomph(with only one sub).

Just noticed this thread. Congrats on the new sub: The build looks great...and that driver looks wicked! :cool:
Thanks! Also, I did replace the driver mounting bolts with the correct length, so that the head of the bolts is inside the gasket and clamped to the mounting frame itself. Hopefully the dimples left on the outside of the gasket will smooth out.

Based on my results with one driver of lesser output than the two you built, I am really surprised your dual UXL-18's are not exceeding your expectations. It's clear that the room really plays a huge role. Have you considered a low profile riser for your seating?
 
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bear123 said:
Based on my results with one driver of lesser output than the two you built, I am really surprised your dual UXL-18's are not exceeding your expectations. It's clear that the room really plays a huge role.
It's probably just a combination of the large room, concrete floor and lower volume levels at which I normally listen (-18dB to -14dB). The subs are very good, but just not as great as I thought they'd be. (Pairing them with the ChaseHT SS-18s improves the situation. As does taking the volume level to -10dB or higher when demo-ing stuff. :) )

Have you considered a low profile riser for your seating?
Not really. Out of curiosity, though, how would that help? Is the idea that the subs would induce vibration in the riser for a better "tactile sensation" at the seats?
 

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Discussion Starter #79
Not really. Out of curiosity, though, how would that help? Is the idea that the subs would induce vibration in the riser for a better "tactile sensation" at the seats?
Yes. I have never experienced a capable sound system on a slab. I am on suspended wood floors with a basement underneath in a 90 year old house. The effect I get from one 18" sealed sub is amazing and would be extremely satisfying to most people. I am confident that adding the second one will have me very satisfied with all aspects. Everything shakes and rumbles...the floor, the couch, the room.
 

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A suspended floor makes a HUGE difference. When I had my HT set up in my main floor family room, all the subs I tried out (SVS PB10-NSD, Energy S10.3 and even my first sub, a relatively modest DefTech ProSub 200TL) gave good massages.

Based on experiencing my PB12-NSD together with my buddy's MFW-15 in my basement set-up, I'm pretty sure that what I really need are dual ported subs, and I would love to get my hands on a pair of either the PSA V1500 or the RA Echo 15, but until the CDN dollar gets closer to par, that ain't gonna happen.

Anyway, enough side-tracking about me. Congrats again on the new sub! :D I'm looking forward to reading about the next one... :)
 
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