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Just sold my miniDSP which I no longer need with the on board dsp in the inuke. Probably going to go ahead and order another cab from DIYsoundgroup. Driver will have to wait until I sell my XV15se.
Hi Bear
What do you think about 2 sealed HT18s vs 1 RA Echo 18? How did you get the flat pack for $140 shipped?? Is that 3 or 4 cu ft box?
 

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Discussion Starter #102
Hi Bear
What do you think about 2 sealed HT18s vs 1 RA Echo 18? How did you get the flat pack for $140 shipped?? Is that 3 or 4 cu ft box?
I think the Echo 18 would still have a small output advantage around tune over a small frequency range. For instance, it might have a 2 dB lead from 16-25 Hz, but that's just an educated guess. The dual HT-18's would pull ahead above and below that range, so overall I think the two would outperform the single Echo 18. I have a 4 ft^3 sealed cab from DIYsoundgroup. It was $140 or so shipped.

I am guessing, based on preliminary data, that the Echo 18 will hit around 112 db at 20 Hz. Dual HT-18's would be around 110, although they would probably hit 112, just not within distortion limits of CEA2010. So like I said, pretty close. The neat thing about DIY is that if you start with sealed cabs, it's pretty easy to switch to ported if you ever want to. You will already have the amp, drivers, connectors, etc. Just build a different cab for $100.
 

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Discussion Starter #103
Just ordered the second flat pack and neutrik speakon connectors for the second sub. Might have a sale on my second XV15....the HST-18 driver will get ordered as soon as that happens. :) That is, of course, unless I change my mind and just do another SI-18 and order my surrounds. But, if I do that, I am afraid I will wonder "what if". I think I'll stick to the "what if proof" build(HST-18).
 

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= I think I'll stick to the "what if proof" build(HST-18).
As an owner of two large ported HST-18....go for it.

I usually change my subs subs with the seasons, but I have had not wanted for anything since I got the HST-18s....They are that awesome.

My 2 cents.
 

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Discussion Starter #108
Nice build! I browsed through and didn't see anyone else mention it so I apologize if it's been said. But the T nuts are supposed to go on the inside of the box. The way they are now, tighten them too much and they'll pop out.
Aren't those washers?
Correct, those are washers that I used just for the purpose of tightening the t-nuts and pulling them into the wood. They are underneath the mounting flange inside the box. The heads of the bolts are too small to tighten enough to secure the t-nuts for the first time.

I did make a boo-boo initially after installing the driver by using washers, but corrected this easily when it was pointed out.
 

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@Bear I am curious about the sound quality difference of your build and the XV15se. I own an xv15se in a 7500cuft living area and I am considering building 2 sealed hst 18 to upgrade, What should I expect?
 

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Congratulations bear123 on your new sub! If you are going to build the HST-18 with the DIYSG 4cuft flatpack, I just wanted to warn you that you may have to shave down the bracing by about 3/4". I'm not sure if I made a mistake as it was my first (and so far only) DIY build, but I kept the speaker gasket that it came with, added some gasket tape from PartsExpress around the cutout, added some polyfill from Walmart into the box -- and could not sit the driver tightly into the cabinet enclosure. I had to have the bracing trimmed off by 3/4". Also, I'm pretty sure it made no difference, but I opted just to use wood screws instead of the t-nuts and lag screws to affix the driver to the cabinet, because I was worried about mis-drilling the eight holes (no drill guide).
 

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Discussion Starter #111
@Bear I am curious about the sound quality difference of your build and the XV15se. I own an xv15se in a 7500cuft living area and I am considering building 2 sealed hst 18 to upgrade, What should I expect?
As far as sound QUALITY goes, I believe that once you have a decently well designed sub, 90% of what we perceive as sound quality will be the in room frequency response. I had my XV15se's eq'd to +/- 2.5 dB from 16-100 Hz. The sound quality was, I believe, pretty much as good as any sub regardless of cost when played within their clean output capabilities.

So, the main difference for me is going to be(I only have 1 DIY build up and running so far) additional headroom and lower extension. I don't believe that the sound quality will match or exceed the dual setup I was running until I have both built and properly eq'd.

Once they are both going, the sound quality will be equivalent(about as good as it gets imo) but with more headroom. So for you, you should get much better sound quality with dual HST-18's if you set them up properly with good eq, and you will gain A LOT of output.
 
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Discussion Starter #112
Congratulations bear123 on your new sub! If you are going to build the HST-18 with the DIYSG 4cuft flatpack, I just wanted to warn you that you may have to shave down the bracing by about 3/4". I'm not sure if I made a mistake as it was my first (and so far only) DIY build, but I kept the speaker gasket that it came with, added some gasket tape from PartsExpress around the cutout, added some polyfill from Walmart into the box -- and could not sit the driver tightly into the cabinet enclosure. I had to have the bracing trimmed off by 3/4". Also, I'm pretty sure it made no difference, but I opted just to use wood screws instead of the t-nuts and lag screws to affix the driver to the cabinet, because I was worried about mis-drilling the eight holes (no drill guide).
Thanks for this info..it will come in handy if I build the 2nd sub with the HST-18 driver.
 

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Discussion Starter #113 (Edited)
2nd ID sub sold. Time to order up my 2nd driver....another HT18 or take the plunge for the HST-18....decisions decisions.......

I wish the UM-18 had test results on DB.....I know we can theoretically model drivers, but I also know that some drivers perform much differently than what they model. Seems like there is a big jump in price from the best budget driver $174, then you basically have to spend $500+ for anything substantially better. And then its only about 50% better, not three times. I know you have the rule of diminishing returns and all. The single HT18 performed much better than I had expected it to, and its distortion performance is exceptionally good regardless of price.

I am still likely to roll with the HST-18, adding another someday will have me basically upgrade proof.
 

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Discussion Starter #114
Question for the pros: I have an inuke6000dsp and an HT18D2 wired for 4 ohm. I am ready to order the next driver, and leaning towards(as titled) the HST-18D2 which I will of course also wire for 4 ohm.

My question is, does the inuke6000 provide enough power to realize much of an output advantage with the HST driver. I actually bought the bigger 6000 amp with the intention of having enough power to push the better driver, with an option to upgrade the HT18 if I ever chose to.

I have been combing over the numbers on DB on both drivers, and I know I cannot use the max burst data since I do not have a K10 amp. Instead, I was trying to look at the compression sweeps, and what voltage was used.

When looking at the 115 dB sweeps for both drivers, here is the voltage and subsequent SPL for each driver:
SI18/71 volts HST-18/63 volts
10 / 91/ 92
12.5 / 94.4 / 95.4
16 / 99.4 / 100.3
20 / 103.7 / 104
25 / 108 / 107.6
31.5 / 112.2 / 112
40 / 114 / 114
50 / 113.4 / 114
63 / 112.7 / 112.7
80 / 111.6 / 111.4

So for that sweep, they produced pretty much identical numbers, although it looks as though the SI-18 was handling much higher than its rated power at 71 volts, but certainly within what the inkuke is capable of delivering. The HST-18 produced the same output with less voltage/wattage. This makes me wonder if the Inuke6000 even has enough power to realize an output advantage or difference between the two drivers. The next sweep levels, 118 db for the HT-18 required 118 volts and 120 dB for the HST-18 required 113 volts. At these drive levels, the HST-18 had several dB higher output. However, this is where I wonder if the Inuke is even powerful enough to realize this output advantage? Maybe I am looking at all this incorrectly. I understand that the rated RMS power is 1800x2 @ 4 ohms, but perhaps it can burst much higher?

Just don't want to spend A LOT of extra money for the HST-18 if I don't have enough power to make a difference. And a more capable amp is not in the budget.
 

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The HST motor is amazing. I would get it just for the motor alone. Who cares about practicality at this point. By the way, your sub build is coming along great, what kind of finish are you going to give it?
 

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Discussion Starter #116
To keep cost down, I will probably just use the same finish as I did on the first one....Restore 4X. It did a GREAT job hiding the seams with two coats. The finish is a double edged sword...VERY flat, which on one hand is nice, but so flat that it leaves marks on it when you handle it. Seems to wipe clean with a sponge though, and I don't juggle them frequently so......

Post 46 shows the finished product when dry.

If I ever want to I might check to see if there is a low cost, satin top coat, but at this point I could care less since my subs are mostly hidden.
 

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Bear, these are the sorts of questions I find myself asking more and more, I don't want to spend TONS to get something better if I can't even use the part the extra money gets me. I haven't looked at all the numbers in depth to verify so I can't agree/disagree with you, but I have a thought anyway.

You say an amp upgrade isn't in the budget, is that just now or ever? I ask because I have seen some guys go down the inuke road then eventually upgrade a few years later. If this type of thing is in play for you at all I would get that HST driver and be done with it. Gives the most freedom.
 

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Discussion Starter #118
An amp upgrade is currently not in the budget. In fact, I am doing this build 100% from the funds I received from selling the two ID subs. The only home theater expenditure in the near future will be my surround speakers which will likely be for my birthday this August....planning on around $500 including installation(in wall). And that will likely be it until I get the house paid off. I really think I will have a very capable home theater/movie/music setup considering it is in my main living room. However, I know I cannot quite play clean up to reference due to my speakers and AVR. That's OK for now though since -15 to -10 is the norm.
 

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An amp upgrade is currently not in the budget. In fact, I am doing this build 100% from the funds I received from selling the two ID subs. The only home theater expenditure in the near future will be my surround speakers which will likely be for my birthday this August....planning on around $500 including installation(in wall). And that will likely be it until I get the house paid off. I really think I will have a very capable home theater/movie/music setup considering it is in my main living room. However, I know I cannot quite play clean up to reference due to my speakers and AVR. That's OK for now though since -15 to -10 is the norm.
@Bear, I am curious about the statement in bold specifically the AVR part, what would make an AVR not able to play reference?
 

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Discussion Starter #120 (Edited)
@Bear, I am curious about the statement in bold specifically the AVR part, what would make an AVR not able to play reference?
The amount of power that my AVR provides, along with my speaker efficiency and distance to MLP makes me unable to play cleanly up to reference level. It sounds really good up to about -10, ok to -5. Not so sure past that.

I have one of the cheapest AVR's you can get(Yamaha RXV-375) with pretty standard 88dB sensitive speakers(Hsu HB1.2), about 11 feet distance to MLP

P.S......Second driver just ordered!
 
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