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I know you are, but it'd be good to hear what the differences are at the same SPL too, especially since they are in the exact same cabinet. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #142
HST-18 up and running. I'll have to get the first sub I built wired up. I relocated it to the more nearfield position, routed the wire(about 30 feet), but have to get the speakon ends assembled. So sometime over the course of the next week I will do some output testing, then get the two subs dialed in together and eq'd. So far it seems to be working really good. Dimming my lights. :)
 

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Here's some sims of both your subs in 4 cut cabs with 1000w. Both drivers are phenomenal. The HST actually has a system Q below 6 so it will have a little more velocity and excursion. It works very well in a small sealed cab as does the HT18 but it needs a larger cab to model the same.

This is the SPL. HST18(yellow) vs HT18(blue)


Here I've included the HST with 2000watts as well which will max the output/cone excursion. This would be EXPLOSIVE. Strong ULFTR to 5hz and below if your electronics can pass that. This combo will absolutely eviscerate any commercial sub/subs below 20hz tenfold. The HT18 is right there though.

 

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Discussion Starter #144
Yep I think I will be pretty happy for the $1500 or so I have invested in the setup. Really looking forward to doing a comparison compression sweep between the two subs with my amp, but much more so I would like to get them both set up, eq'd flat, and test the output. Then most importantly, simply enjoying.
 

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Discussion Starter #146
Both subs up and running, got the other speak-on cable put together. But its late and I just set the subwoofer level by ear then turned them both on. Working 15-16 hours shifts until next Friday so might be then before I properly level match them and get them eq'd.
 

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HST-18 up and running. I'll have to get the first sub I built wired up. I relocated it to the more nearfield position, routed the wire(about 30 feet), but have to get the speakon ends assembled. So sometime over the course of the next week I will do some output testing, then get the two subs dialed in together and eq'd. So far it seems to be working really good. Dimming my lights. :)
I just tried a test fit of one of my HST18's in my cabinet and it won't fit. The HST 18 advertised mounting depth on the web site says 11 inches but it is actually 11.5 inches according to my measurements. I did cut out about 1/2 inch of the long brace to allow for the pole vent to breath but it still won't fit.

Did you have any issues getting it mounted??
 

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Discussion Starter #148
I just tried a test fit of one of my HST18's in my cabinet and it won't fit. The HST 18 advertised mounting depth on the web site says 11 inches but it is actually 11.5 inches according to my measurements. I did cut out about 1/2 inch of the long brace to allow for the pole vent to breath but it still won't fit.

Did you have any issues getting it mounted??
I trimmed the internal braces back about 3/4" in roughly a 9" diameter circle. I think a little less would have sufficed based on the shape of the back of the motor, but it seemed to work ok.
 

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I trimmed the internal braces back about 3/4" in roughly a 9" diameter circle. I think a little less would have sufficed based on the shape of the back of the motor, but it seemed to work ok.
i just did that and now all of the drivers fit!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #150
HOLY CRAP!!! I have a lot of work left to do, but I think this shows INCREDIBLE potential once I get everything dialed in. Could not be much happier at this point. I did some max output/compression testing with the single HST-18(HT-18 turned off). I am literally blown away by the results. I feel VERY happy with my amplifier choice as well based on the results. I will post the graph, then I will share my interpretations:

114 dB @ 20 Hz with 0 compression and 11% distortion



So I have not seen this kind of information shared in the DIY section. We see a lot of sims, and we see data-bass numbers with an amp that almost nobody can afford. I am thrilled by the output and distortion levels that I was able to get from a SINGLE HST-18 and an Inuke6000dsp.

On the last sweep, 20 Hz output went up by 4.8 dB, so almost zero compression. Increasing the sweep 3 dB, output did not go up at all(.4 dB if you look at legend), amp went into clipping. This tells me that the driver can handle every drop of power that the Inuke can dish out without any issues whatsoever. I heard no driver noises even on the highest sweep. And source material should be less demanding than a sine wave.

WOW I am just blown away. Here is why the rest of the results look wonky:

1) mic was clipping as the sweep increased in frequency due to the output level, so there appears to be compression above 30 Hz but there really probably is not.

2) I ran these sweeps with my mains, so there is a lot of compression in the upper bass....cheap speakers and a $200 AVR do not like sweeps up to +10.

3) The FR is HORRIBLE, I know. This is one sub, no setup, no eq, etc. The purpose of the test was ONLY to find out how much headroom I have down low, which I accomplished.

4) Now I will begin to integrate the two subs together. I will be focusing on (A) Getting a smoother response before eq. (B) Keeping the gain low enough in the HT-18 such that it will not limit the output of the HST.

Hope this helps anyone....I have not seen anyone post max output of a driver like this using the amps that are most common for budget minded peeps. I was unsure how much REAL LIFE performance I could get out of this driver with a cheap amp. I could not be any happier.

Updates to follow as I get things dialed in.
 

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Discussion Starter #151 (Edited)
HST18 and HT18 1/12 smoothing no eq(mic clipping at +5 and above)




And here is a sweep with the room sealed to show the lift I get on the low end. I have two sets of French doors that lead to other rooms. This shows the difference between them open and closed. The sweep with room sealed was done 5 dB higher...zero compression at 20 Hz :) Did not sweep higher as HT18 was grumbling down low at that sweep level.



So to me, the result would seem to be full reference level capability down to 10 Hz with fairly low distortion.

Also, it was hard for me to tell if the HST-18 was going to be worth the price difference compared to the HT-18 based on the information on data-bass. I questioned whether the Inuke6000 would even reveal the performance difference between the two drivers. Well, in my opinion, the HST-18 performs drastically better. The HT-18 topped out at 107 dB with 1.5-2dB of compression and high distortion. The HST-18 took all the inuke could give and hit 114 at 20 with barely any compression(.2dB). That's a ton more output......I can see that I will upgrade the other driver someday.

It is worth having the HT-18 in the system for now as it gets my response pretty good and keeps up pretty well right up to the 115dB level.

Now to apply some eq.
 

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It is worth having the HT-18 in the system for now as it gets my response pretty good and keeps up pretty well right up to the 115dB level.
Why not? Other than more spl, the purpose of multiple subs is for smoothing.

Great tests you have done there and nice response! The good thing is that you don't even need that much eq.
 

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Well, in my opinion, the HST-18 performs drastically better. The HT-18 topped out at 107 dB with 1.5-2dB of compression and high distortion. The HST-18 took all the inuke could give and hit 114 at 20 with barely any compression(.2dB).
In terms of output I understand there is a difference but is there a difference between HT18 and HST18 in terms of sound quality? If yes is it big difference?
 

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Discussion Starter #154 (Edited)
In terms of output I understand there is a difference but is there a difference between HT18 and HST18 in terms of sound quality? If yes is it big difference?
This is a bit of a loaded question for me, as I don't think(unless the subs are poorly designed), that there is much difference in sound quality between subs if they are played within their clean output capabilities. The overwhelming majority of what we hear, imo, is simply the in room frequency response and integration with mains. In all fairness, I did not do extensive, or really any, critical listening to compare the two subs. It would have been pointless to me as my FR with a single sub is very poor. So to do critical listening with a bad FR is really pointless imo. Especially since sound quality is 99% FR and integration. What I can say is that once I had the two subs dialed in together and setup with eq, that they sound great with music. However, the dual ported subs that I had in my room sounded equally great with music. I just have more headroom now and clean output capability to reference and above down to 10 Hz. Which I did not have before.

In practice, the sound quality for me will be better for movies as my volume level increases. With my old system, I was pretty capable up to -15 to -10. At or beyond that level things started to get pretty hairy on big LFE scenes. Now I can listen at -5(about the limit of my speakers and AVR), and the LFE is massive and clean.

And the sickness continues. Next up will be to install my matching surround speakers(currently have none!). They will be the same speaker but in wall rather than bookshelf. So not a perfect match but pretty close. However, the biggest thing I have noticed with this subwoofer upgrade is that my mains/AVR combo is now hopelessly outclassed. I feel like I can listen pretty clean in the -10 to -5 level, but I realize I am probably missing dynamics by the time I reach -5. I think a more powerful AVR would probably help, but I believe throwing more power at them will yield minimal benefits. So someday in the future, I can foresee building higher efficiency bookshelf sized speakers for my LCR, probably something off DIYSG.
 

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Discussion Starter #155
Why not? Other than more spl, the purpose of multiple subs is for smoothing.
Absolutely...I have a massive null when running one sub.

Great tests you have done there and nice response! The good thing is that you don't even need that much eq.
Thanks! Yeah didn't need A LOT of eq, just a lot of small peaks and dips to smooth out a bit, so I still used 6 filters. Kept my overall boost to max 3 dB and did not boost anywhere down low. The impact from LFE is so strong, I do not feel the need for any type of house curve(yet).
 

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What I find interesting (and hopeful to me) is that the below 30hz output was very reasonably flat with no EQ with both subs running and the doors closed. I assumed in my room that even with 4 HST's I would have to EQ below 30hz since that is the natural roll off of the enclosure. In fact, that is the primary reason I purchased my miniDSP.

Hopefully next week I will know!
 

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What I find interesting (and hopeful to me) is that the below 30hz output was very reasonably flat with no EQ with both subs running and the doors closed. I assumed in my room that even with 4 HST's I would have to EQ below 30hz since that is the natural roll off of the enclosure. In fact, that is the primary reason I purchased my miniDSP.

Hopefully next week I will know!
Natural roll off for a sealed sub outside, yes. Take that sealed sub and put it inside and room gain makes that natural roll off a lot lower in the bandwidth. The minidsp is a great tool and you will need it because you have four HST builds that are in different locations.
 

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What I find interesting (and hopeful to me) is that the below 30hz output was very reasonably flat with no EQ with both subs running and the doors closed. I assumed in my room that even with 4 HST's I would have to EQ below 30hz since that is the natural roll off of the enclosure. In fact, that is the primary reason I purchased my miniDSP.

Hopefully next week I will know!
Natural transfer function of a room. Below that frequency your rooms an air pump. No Modes.
 

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Discussion Starter #159
One last this to do with my subs. One is sitting on a towel, the other on felt tabs. I ordered rubber feet from PE...I will probably get those installed today. I think I am going to drill starter holes so I don't split or pull the MDF. Going to be careful to use screws that will not go all the way through the MDF as well since I have no inserts of anything. Just going to be wood screws, and I hope these will hold strong enough to not rip out or anything.
 

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Nice Bear! I agree about bass sounding the same as with any system I have owned once dialed in the only differences would be extension or response. The HST should be a much better driver as it cost much more. The point of the HT-18 is that in multiples it is a force because it is so cheap one can buy many more. The issue will be space so the better drivers are better is you can't many.
 
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