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Discussion Starter #1
Many of you already know my setup which came together thanks to lots of good advice on this site! I have MartinLogan Odysseys as my two fronts, a ML Theater for the front center and two ML Cinemas as the two rear surrounds. Note: I'm beginning to get used to the look of the rears, but none of my women friends have seen the setup yet. However, I LOVE the sound.


I can't use ML Ascents on the sides because I don't have ANY wall space on one side to accomodate this particular speaker. Therefore, I have to find speakers which will blend well with the ML electrostatics. These speakers will have to be placed at about the same height as the Cinemas, faced downward (I assume). I'm using an Integra Research RDC-7 and Cal 2500 amp to drive the speakers. Sound so far is outstanding.


Haven't gotten a subwoofer yet because initial listening seemed to indicate that I wouldn't get the 'bang for the buck' with the new ML sub. My bass sounds really good now and I don't know that I'm in need of LFE (not being terribly fond of car crashes, etc.).


I'm looking for input, especially from other ML owners.

Leslie
 

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Leslie,


I'm not an ML owner, but I've heard them on more than one occasion. There are certainly a few options from ML such as the Scripts which you could consider.


Alternatives to ML might be Soundline Audio, with their SL-5, which is a two piece speaker, with the tweeter wall mounting and the woofer seperated. This will not be a particularly great timbral match with your MLs, as I find the Soundlines are a bit more dynamic than the Logans, and they have a bit more precise imaging. You can find more info at http://www.soundlineaudio.com .


If Final has started shipping their ESL theater, you could also look at their 0.5 setups in part, (mainly the wall mount option for the surruounds is what I was thinking of).... More info for them at http://www.finalelectrostatic.com


The catch here is that of none of these speakers really delivers the kind of bass that is major league ;)


When you are ready, take a serious look at subwoofers from SV Subwoofers or maybe the Aerial Acoustics subs. While the SVs are not the prettiest on the planet for decor, they deliver big time.


The Aerial subwoofer is first rate as well, and is a bit nicer to look at.


But what of the crashes etc? Are you concerned that the subwoofer would be "too apparent" at all times?


Properly calibrated the subwoofer should not call attention to itself, you shouldn't really notice its presence. Then when the moment comes, maybe its when the organist steps on the far left pedals... all of a sudden, there it is. Bass that is deeper and more authoritative then you know is possible from your other speakers. This is what a good (and properly calibrated) subwoofer will do for you.


So, while it does add impact to crashes etc, etc, a good one will also enhance your music listening in ways you would otherwise not realize.


Hope this helps with some options....
 

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I had a similar problem and used a hybrid arrangement for a while. MLs front and center, dynamics for surround. Weird. I doubt you'll find any dynamic speaker that will seamlessly mate with MLs. Get the Scripts and forget about it. When I replaced the dynamics with the Scripts, the system really blossomed.


Re subs.... I use an REL Storm III that really moves a lot of air and cleanly. What's especially good about it is how exceptionally musical it is: string bass, celli, etc sound like they're supposed to. A good sub will take a lot of the load from your main speakers and, given that you've matched the sub to the mains, will normally yield a dramatic increase in sound quality, especially in two channel.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I'm sorry I wasn't clearer. There is NO way to mount the Scripts (which I meant to type, instead of Ascent). I have exactly 1 inch of wall between a wall of windows and a door. The Scripts must be mounted at ear level, so their use isn't possible.


The side surround has to be mounted at about 7 to 8' in height OVER the windows and a door. It is quite an unfortunate layout, but that's what I've got. Thanks Mr. Architect.


Salesman did mention the REL as a possible subwoofer. You're right, John, I'd love to hear the really deep organ tones (and have several regular CD recording of organ works).


My greatest concern at the moment, though, is the side surrounds. My RDC-7 assumes that I if I have rear surrounds, I have side surrounds. Gotta get them.

Leslie
 

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What about another pair of Cinema's for the side surrounds? If you also utilized a sub, you would be able to route the low frequencies to it and not have to worry about utilizing a full range speaker for surround duties.


By the way, I have a fairly similar set-up. Ascents and Cinema up front, Scripts and RDC-7 will be added to the mix this weekend. I am facing a similar problem as I ponder the best choice for the rear surrounds. I have a wet bar at the back of the theater, complete with wall mounted cabinets on the back wall. It seems my only option for the rear surrounds is to go with in-ceiling speakers. Sounds like a frightening thought, but I think the improvements in directionality and ambience will offset the inferior quality and tonal mismatch. Of course it might be best to test this theory with some small bookshelf speakers before cutting holes in the ceiling.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
While the Cinemas would work, I really can't live with the look of them as surrounds. One would be adjacent to an 18th century antique. No can do. (I'm female, so I'm a little picky about looks.) However, I want full range surrounds.


I've gotten used to the Cinemas as rear surrounds, but haven't yet had to listen to the comments of my female friends when they get a look. Or the decorator who will be horrified. C'est la vie.

Leslie
 

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Leslie:


If you don't have room for compatible side surrounds, maybe it would be better to have a 5.1 rather than a 7.1 system, using your rears as the surrounds.


If the rears turn out to be objectionable in appearance, it would be interesting to try building an enclosure or screen using acoustically transparent fabric - the FR701 from Guilford of Maine. There would probably be a slight loss of highs which might be acceptable in surround speakers.


Craig
 

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How about a pair of script on a stand? Stay with Martinlogan. There aren't any other speaker can match ML besides other eletrostatic speakers. By the way, do you have a picture of your system? would love to see it.
 

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Hello Leslie and fellow enthusiasts,


I'm a relative new guy to Martin Logan ownership and using the old model speakers (SL-3's). I knew that when I purchased the SL-3's I was starting down a long and dangerous road regarding surround sound. I'm afraid the fact is that there is no other speaker on the market with a timbre like the ML electrostatics other than ML electrostatics.


In your situation I would be looking at either mounting a pair of Scripts on a stand, using a pair of Theater or Lgos speakers behind some kind of cover or screen or, if you really can't accomodate an ML speaker, I'd be tempted to run without rather than risk damaging the integrity of the soundfield with a none ML speaker.


I'm sorry I can't be of more assistance, but it is a cross us ML speaker owners have to bear.


Best wishes,


Dave
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by analogueaddict
I'd be tempted to run without rather than risk damaging the integrity of the soundfield with a none ML speaker.
For movies, ambience and spacial cues seem to far outweigh tonal accuracy, at least for me. I have Martin Logans up front and until my Scripts arrive this weekend, some old Polk dipoles for side surrounds. I don't find the mismatch that objectionable at all and would be perfectly happy with this set-up even if I were not able to make the change to the Scripts.


I feel this is true in part because timbre never matches all that well between the front and surround speakers even when the speakers are identical. Placement in the room as well as their spacial relationship to objects in the room and their relative distance to the listener all play a part in changing the sound. We live with this fact and can minimize the mismatch with speakers designed to work together, but you'd be surprised how nice things can sound even with mismatched surround speakers. In my opinion, mathing is far more important up front.


Yes, I do hear slight changes in the sound when something is panning around the room. But this type of effect is far less common then background ambience and discrete noises isolated in the surrounds. If given the choice between no surrounds and mismatched (but of high quality), I would choose the surrounds every time.
 

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Leslie:


There is hope... I think. I also have ML all around. I'm in a similar situation with an odd opening to my dining room from the HT. I have Ascents as mains, Aerius i's as rears and Scripts at the sides. When I went from 5.1 to 7.1, I knew the left side would be difficult as I have no wall to mount anything on. When I was in picking up the Ascents for the home audition, I noticed a pair of ML Scripts mounted on stands. When I asked about them, the owner told me he was also into car racing designs etc. and had the stands custom made for the store for auditioning purposes etc.


They are very basic in that there is a single plate at the bottom (obviously heavy) and a pair of tube steel poles that come up from the bottom plate that meet at the top to form a 180 degree semi circle. There is a mount that can slide up the poles (for height preference) which is what holds the speaker, that can be locked at any position. Painted (bake light) flat black to match the basic ML look. Very simple yet very modern looking.


Needless to say, the inclusion of the stands was a must if he was to sell the Ascents..... and he did.


I'm not sure what these would cost to make but even if it were a couple of hundred, sounds like it would kill a couple of birds for you at the same time. I don't have a photo of them right now, but I would gladly snap a couple of shots and scan them for you, if you're interested.


Regards,

Herb Kane.
 

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Leslie,


If you could find a way to stay with the Logans, that would probably be preferrable. Another alternative, but not inexpensive is the Marquee center speaker from SoundLAB. This is an electrostatic. I believe you can work with them on the fabric for the grill front. It will probably be difficult finding one to listen to though.
http://www.soundlab-speakers.com/marquee.htm




Regarding subs, SVS should have pictures of the new SS model in the near future. Performance with SVS is excellent though you may not like the looks of current offerings. The SS will not look like the current models. You may want to email them with your concerns--they respond very well.
http://www.svsubwoofers.com


ACI has a good following with their Titan II subs http://www.audioc.com/speakers/TitanII/2001Titanle.htm


VMPS also has excellent performing subs at very reasonable pricing. The website is a bit out of date, but you can email or call and speak to the owner with questions.
http://www.vmpsaudio.com


All of these sub companies are internet direct, but offer return policies allowing you to home audition. All are very good on customer service and answering questions. All offer very good products at very reasonable pricing.


Happy hunting,

Will
 

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Discussion Starter #13
H Kane,

I'm going to go check and see if a stand might work on one side. Does anyone know if the Script absolutely, positively HAS to be mounted at ear level? Could it be mounted at 7 to 8' or would that ruin the sound?


I'm also wondering if maybe I could live with two more Cinemas. If they weren't black it would help, but, alas, that's the only color offered. At least they can be mounted high enough to clear the windows/doors on the south side.


The best place for a sub has been taken by my giant amp (Darth Vader). Although perhaps I could pull it out further. I tried to talk my husband into letting me cut into the wall and put it in his closet. I got THE LOOK. So, scratch that brilliant idea.

Leslie
 

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The Scripts, like all MLs, have a very narrow vertical dispersion pattern. The ideal situation would have the middle of the panel at ear level. Unless you have the ability to point them towards the listening area, I'm not sure mountng them high on the wall would be a good idea.
 

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Well, I think the best for Leslie would be Script on the stand. I myself have Aerius I, Cinema, and Scenario for rear, I'm looking for a stand to fit my Scenario to bring it up to my ear level.
 

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Leslie,


Call Martin Logan and see if there is a type of paint that you can use on the Cinema, surely it is okay to paint mdf... I remember a big selling point of the Stylos ( wall/stand mounted predecessor to the script) was that they were paintable.


Miles
 

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Leslie,


I tried posting the images of the stands but kept being rejected due to the file size. Send me your email address, and I can email them direct to you, if you like (or anyone else interested, for that matter).


Regards,

Herb Kane
 

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Discussion Starter #18
H Kane

I checked the space and, alas, there's no room for a Script on a stand.


I have the Cinemas angled downward (on a special mount) so I could angle the Scripts downward but am uncertain as to the effect. I think I read somewhere that they can be turned sideways or did I dream it?


My husband claims he would be claustrophobic with 4 Cinemas angled down at him. They are pretty big and even though the room is maybe 15 x 20 with a 12.5 foot cathdral ceiling, I can see his point. Of course, generally speaking he is against anything new or that has a price tag attached.

Leslie
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I think I'm going to order two more Cinemas. I guess I'm getting used to the look. A woman friend was over and her comment on the Cinema rears was "Gee, you must really have a great sound system."


I bought a REL Storm III subwoofer yesterday and really like the sound. Tweeter's brought out the REL and a ML Descent for audition. Unfortunately, the Descent was DOA (a real first according to my salesman). Organ music sounds fabulous (thanks John) and my fat cat totally freaked when the T-Rex in Jurassic Park roared. Didn't know he could move that fast!


Now, I have to find a two-channel amp (for the two Cinemas) which will blend well with my CAL 2500 monster amp.


You guys shoulda warned me what an EXPENSIVE interest this was.

Leslie
 

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This may be idiotic, but it might just be sufficiently crazy. How about mounting the Scripts upside-down? Maybe that would do weird things to the bass time alignment, though.
 
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