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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,


I have a Optoma HD80 projector using a 80" SilverScreen painted MDF screen.


I wanted to get more brighness out of the screen. I started shopping for fixed screen but really dont want to invest $400-500 dollars right now as I may be moving and not sure how my new room will be.


I then decided maybe i would mess around with altering my DIY screen.


I am looking to add some brightness/gain. I feel like the SS is just to grey right now. I am in a totally light controlled basement but many time have one or two 80watt lamps on.


I have been doing some reading and heres some of the options i have come up with. Let me know if you have any comments or better ideas:


1. Add a polyurethane Clear coat over the top of the SS.


2. Add a polyurethane Clear coat and mix in 1-2 oz. of FoldArk Metallic Paint.


3. Repaint the entire screen with a more matte white pain (Suggestions)


Thoughts?


Thanks,

Mitchell
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchell2345 /forum/post/15587067


Hi,


I have a Optoma HD80 projector using a 80" SilverScreen painted MDF screen.


I wanted to get more brighness out of the screen. I started shopping for fixed screen but really dont want to invest $400-500 dollars right now as I may be moving and not sure how my new room will be.


I then decided maybe i would mess around with altering my DIY screen.


I am looking to add some brightness/gain. I feel like the SS is just to grey right now. I am in a totally light controlled basement but many time have one or two 80watt lamps on.


I have been doing some reading and heres some of the options i have come up with. Let me know if you have any comments or better ideas:


1. Add a polyurethane Clear coat over the top of the SS.


2. Add a polyurethane Clear coat and mix in 1-2 oz. of FoldArk Metallic Paint.


3. Repaint the entire screen with a more matte white pain (Suggestions)


Thoughts?


Thanks,

Mitchell

Hang in there.....the Ball games come first.


Yeah....that's what I said.
 

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I did find that top coating the Silverscreen with Behr Matte Polyurethane worked well. It is not necessarily the best solution but it will make a difference.



Click the thumbnails to see the full size images.


You may find the screen is still too dark though. In that case there are many neutral gray paint options that may suite you better.


Be sure to do a contrast & brightness calibration before judging anything you try. If you have not done this yet then do so before you do anything else.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchell2345 /forum/post/15587067


Hi,

I am looking to add some brightness/gain. I feel like the SS is just to grey right now. I am in a totally light controlled basement but many time have one or two 80watt lamps on.

l

Are you prepared to start over again with a new painted screen?

I can give you a mix and paint process for a Silver screen with a gain of 1.3..called the Silver Pearl..
 

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silver metallic in the base can raise gain even higher. Given the costs of these additives and the paints used, I ended up using a premade paint on screen. I can't say how it compares with the ones developed here, but it has a silver additive in the base. I tried one of the earlier more basic diy paints and found its gain to be roughly 1, as it was slightly lower measured output than my 1.3 gain store bought screen. I then painted the store bought screen's surface with this screen paint, which claimed a gain of around 2, and found just around a doubling in the lumen output, suggesting it is indeed near 2. Having lamps on in a room, I find that 1.3 gain isn't enough, you really need to be in the 2-3 range.


Keep in mind though that there is no free lunch. the gain is a multiplying factor, and if you have a screen with a gain of 3, then if your ire 100 peak white is 12 lumens at gain of 1, it will be 36 with a gain of 3. That's good, we all like more light, but the problem is the black level. If the black 0 ire point was .01, its now going to be .03. It makes the blacks more foggy and, in my opinion, causes issues with the image in darkened watching.


Of note, I tried a Da-Lite Highpower and found it to have the exact same problems as my diy screen. While its retroreflective and has some supposed advantages over my screen, I found it not to be the magic I was expecting. I'm just not fully convinced of high gain screens anymore. You have to pick your compromise. Good dark theater movie images or good lit room sports watching, but you can't have the best of both on any product I have yet seen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. /forum/post/15589472


Are you prepared to start over again with a new painted screen?

I can give you a mix and paint process for a Silver screen with a gain of 1.3..called the Silver Pearl..


I wouldn't be opposed to starting over as long as i can use the same MDF. will i be able to paint over the SS?


What is the mix? If you had to describe it what would you say? as compared to SS


Thanks,

Mitchell
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchell2345 /forum/post/15590662


I wouldn't be opposed to starting over as long as i can use the same MDF. will i be able to paint over the SS?

I painted my screen on MDF and yes, you will be able to paint over the SS..

It may require several coats of white undercoat to cover over the SS..

Quote:
What is the mix? If you had to describe it what would you say? as compared to SS

I would describe it this way...


Better blacks than SS..

Far better whites than SS..

Almost perfect colour balance..has been measured at 6450K..

Has been Spectro analyzed as having an N9.0 rating..

It has a 170 degree viewing angle..

Perceived depth and sharper image compared to a 1.0 gain white screen..

Has some ambient light qualities..


The down side.


More difficult to apply than SS..

Non commercial paints are required..

Not easy to apply

Multi-layer process required..


If you're still interested, I'll provide the type of paints needed, the mixing formula and the painting process..
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. /forum/post/15597918



The down side.


More difficult to apply than SS..

Non commercial paints are required..

Not easy to apply

Multi-layer process required..


If you're still interested, I'll provide the type of paints needed, the mixing formula and the painting process..

Wow, that all sounds really good but if non-commercial paints are required how will I be able to purchase the paint?


Mitchell
 

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By non commercial I mean that some of the paints used are not made by popular paint brand Companies..

The undercoat and white base paints are, but the other paints and mediums are from Artist Suppliers..but all readily available in the US..
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. /forum/post/15597918


Better blacks than SS..

Has been Spectro analyzed as having an N9.0 rating..

If it is an N9 how could it have better blacks than SS which is around an N8?
 

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Here is the formula for US based paint products..


THE SILVER PEARL PAINT MIX FORMULA


I wasn't sure how much I needed to paint my screen, so I made up more than enough to do the job...

The quantities listed below should be enough to do 2 coats of individual layers on a 110" screen..


Sealer /Undercoat..


Kilz2 I believe is the most popular undercoat paint, but any good sealer/undercoat paint will do..


First Layer...2 coats


Any quality brand of Flat White paint will be suitable for the base coats


Second Layer...2 coats


400ml... Behr Faux Glaze

60ml.....Smartcraft Silver

60ml.....Delta Ceramcoat Silver

40ml.....Distilled Water..


Third Layer...2 coats


400ml...Behr Faux Glaze

20ml.... Flat White..


Curing time...approx. 1 week..


I will follow this up later with the painting process..
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler /forum/post/15599046


If it is an N9 how could it have better blacks than SS which is around an N8?

Good question...


Behind the translucent top coat layer, is virtually a wall of pure silver..

As we know, silver produces excellent blacks..as does this screen.. But added to that is the translucent white surface, which aids in producing shades of black. ie greys..So by "better" I mean it produces a range of blacks, from the most inkiness of blacks to light greys..

The white surface also helps to raise it to N9..
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. /forum/post/15599152


Here is the formula for US based paint products..


THE SILVER PEARL PAINT MIX FORMULA


I wasn't sure how much I needed to paint my screen, so I made up more than enough to do the job...

The quantities listed below should be enough to do 2 coats of individual layers on a 110" screen..


Sealer /Undercoat..


Kilz2 I believe is the most popular undercoat paint, but any good sealer/undercoat paint will do..

Im not very familiar with painting terms. Do you mean just a good which primer?

Quote:
First Layer...2 coats


Any quality brand of Flat White paint will be suitable for the base coats


Second Layer...2 coats


400ml... Behr Faux Glaze

60ml.....Smartcraft Silver

60ml.....Delta Ceramcoat Silver

40ml.....Distilled Water..


Third Layer...2 coats


400ml...Behr Faux Glaze

20ml.... Flat White..


Curing time...approx. 1 week..


I will follow this up later with the painting process..

Are these other colors (SmartCraft sliver, ceramcoat silver, etc) Behr colors? where am i going to find these? Hobby lobby?


Is this mix a tested color beyond you?


I dont get why some mixes are some complex. I initially went for SS because it is a color i can just ask for from Home Depot.


Is there another formula that i can purchase from Home Depot where I dont have to search for colors but give them a color mix with swatch #s that they can use in the computer?


Thanks,

Mitchell
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchell2345 /forum/post/15599684


Is there another formula that i can purchase from Home Depot where I dont have to search for colors but give them a color mix with swatch #s that they can use in the computer?


Thanks,

Mitchell

There are known neutral gray tints for the Behr paints. They are not from Behr swatches. Click here to see the Behr neutral gray tints. For best results I recommend using the Behr Interior Flat Enamel #1850 base paint with some satin water base polyurethane added. The mix ratio is 4:1 paint to polyurethane. That means you add 8oz. of satin polyurethane to a quart of the tinted 1850 paint. The recommended polyurethane is Minwax Clear Satin Polycrylic.


As for the ingredients in Prof's mix, you can get the Behr Faux Glaze at Home Depot. A good flat white paint is Behr UPW #1050. The SmartCraft Silver and the Delta Ceramcoat Silver are available at Michael's.


The mix Prof has suggested sounds a lot like the mixes MississippiMan used to use. He was painting a translucent top coat over a base of Behr Silver Metallic. Prof's silver layer would be a lot more translucent and lighter in color. The top coat of 5% flat white in the Faux Glaze is interesting. Very translucent I expect. I found the Fuax Glaze to have a fairly high gloss, close to a semi-gloss. Is 5% flat white enough to prevent hot spotting? If the faux glaze did turn out to have too much gloss, there is the Valspar Clear Flat Protector from Lowes.


Is it rolled on?


Prof. Do you know of anyone in North America that has tried this out?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchell2345 /forum/post/15599684


Im not very familiar with painting terms. Do you mean just a good which primer?




Are these other colors (SmartCraft sliver, ceramcoat silver, etc) Behr colors? where am i going to find these? Hobby lobby?


Is this mix a tested color beyond you?


I dont get why some mixes are some complex. I initially went for SS because it is a color i can just ask for from Home Depot.


Is there another formula that i can purchase from Home Depot where I dont have to search for colors but give them a color mix with swatch #s that they can use in the computer?


Thanks,

Mitchell

Mitchell,

I think tiddler has answered most of your questions, so I'll go onto his questions..
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler /forum/post/15600548


As for the ingredients in Prof's mix, you can get the Behr Faux Glaze at Home Depot. A good flat white paint is Behr UPW #1050. The SmartCraft Silver and the Delta Ceramcoat Silver are available at Michael's.

I think that answers Mitchells questions..

Quote:
The mix Prof has suggested sounds a lot like the mixes MississippiMan used to use. He was painting a translucent top coat over a base of Behr Silver Metallic. Prof's silver layer would be a lot more translucent and lighter in color. The top coat of 5% flat white in the Faux Glaze is interesting. Very translucent I expect. I found the Fuax Glaze to have a fairly high gloss, close to a semi-gloss. Is 5% flat white enough to prevent hot spotting? If the faux glaze did turn out to have too much gloss, there is the Valspar Clear Flat Protector from Lowes.

The Faux Glaze I used came from South Africa..brand name Dala..It was a MATT Glaze..

The Behr Faux Glaze does have some sheen to it, which won't affect the silver layer mix..

With the top coat mix, the flat white paint added to the Glaze should be enough to tame down any sheen in the Glaze..


I have used a local brand of Faux Glaze that did have sheen to it, but when the flat white was added, you could barely see any sheen..and not enough to hot-spot..

Quote:
Is it rolled on?

Yes..I used a roller..

It could be sprayed on but I can't tell you how much it needs to be diluted..

MMan would probably have some idea on that..

Quote:
Prof. Do you know of anyone in North America that has tried this out?

Not that I'm aware of..

I did do a write up on another HT forum on the Silver Pearl, but I think for the most part, people wanted a more simpler paint application..

I wanted the best DIY screen I could make, regardless of expense and difficulty..

The end results speak for themselves..
 

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Here is the procedure required to paint the Silver Pearl screen, if anyone's interested to give a try..

The procedure needs to be followed very closely, or otherwise it might turn out looking very streaky..




PAINTING THE SILVER PEARL SCREEN


As I stated previously, roller painting this screen presented some difficulties initially and required a certain procedure to prevent roller marks..

The main problem is the Silver /Glaze layer ..When mixed together it forms a slippery oozy liquid..most unlike normal acrylic paint..and very difficult to apply..


I first tried the accepted method of rolling from top to bottom, over-lapping each vertical stroke by about 25%, and then working back over the previous strips of paint..before continuing on to the next strip..

Doing this very carefully still left roller marks everywhere..I thought that they might dissipate once the paint had started to set but this was not the case..


So..If anyone is planning to paint this screen, then there is a strict procedure to follow ..Otherwise you will have a very streaky looking screen..


The Roller..


I used a 7" wide 5mm.nap white Mohair roller..

You probably can use other types of rollers, but it must be of good quality..

When paint is applied to this roller, no nap is standing up and it becomes and feels almost like a solid roller..


Position of the Screen..


The screen MUST be painted FLAT..i.e lying flat on the ground or on trestles..

If it's a fairly small screen or a CIH screen as mine is, then providing you can reach from top to bottom, trestles will be fine..

If it's a large screen, then it will need to be on the floor and you will need an extension handle on the roller..


The reason for having the screen flat is that the final rolling applications requires absolutely NO pressure on the roller..This can be difficult to achieve when rolling right across the screen when it's in the vertical position..


Mixing the Paint and Glaze..


The Silver and the Glaze must be thoroughly mixed until you're beating it like a cake mix..using an electric drill and paddle...

The Glaze is poured into the mixing can first and the silver mix and water together (which was previously mixed together) is slowly added..This helps to keep the silver from coating the bottom of the mixing can, which would change the paint/glaze ratio..



The Rolling Method..


The Sealer/undercoat and the White Base are just rolled on using an acceptable method such as the one described in this forum..


For the Silver/Glaze mix..load the roller well with the mix and then roll it out on the grooves in the tray..just so the roller is lightly loaded and certainly not dripping..Just like you would for normal acrylic paint..


Apply the mix, starting from the right or left edge..whichever is comfortable for you..but keep the heel of the roller pointing in the direction that you're going to move across the screen..

You will find the roller slips initially and skids up and down...just keep rolling with light pressure until it starts to grip..

Roll constantly up and down over the first strip you've just layed..

Then start the next strip, overlapping the first one by about 25%, and keep working that up and down, gradually working back over the first strip..and back again on to the second strip..

Reload the roller at repeat the process..

Keep going over and back on each pair of strips that you've layed down..working up and down each strip until you've reached the other end..


The main thing is to make sure that mix is evenly applied across the screen...Don't worry about any lines or marks that you will see..They will be rectified shortly..


Now roll out the roller firmly in the tray to remove as much of the mix as possible..


Starting from the end that you first painted, place the roller lightly on the top edge, with about 25% of it overhanging the side edge and pull the roller down very slowly towards the bottom edge..

Apply absolutely NO PRESSURE on the roller as you pull it down very slowly..Just let the weight of the roller do the job..

At the end of the down stroke, pick up the roller and move it to the top again, overlapping the first stroke by about a half...Again slowly pull down the roller to the bottom edge..

The reason for moving the roller slowly is that not even the best rollers are 100% round on the nap when paint is applied, and moving the roller fast can give small ridges and dips in the paint through the roller skipping..Normally you wouldn't notice this with latex paints as they are very forgiving...This mix is not!!

Keep repeating this procedure until you reach the end of the screen...


Now firmly roll out the roller in the tray again..repeating the same rolling procedure across the screen..

Do this three times, firmly rolling out the roller in the tray each time, until the roller is just about dry in the last pass..

Finally finish with one more pass rolling vertical..


After the last pass, you should have a mark free finish..


With this mix, you will have plenty of time do this multiple rolling before it starts to set, so just take your time..


The final top coat mix is applied in the same manner as you did for the Flat White base coat, using the prescribed rolling method..


Allow the finished screen to dry for at least 24hrs. before installing..and don't forget that it takes about a week to fully cure..


Good luck with it and if you have any questions just ask..
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler /forum/post/15600548


For best results I recommend using the Behr Interior Flat Enamel #1850 base paint with some satin water base polyurethane added. The mix ratio is 4:1 paint to polyurethane. That means you add 8oz. of satin polyurethane to a quart of the tinted 1850 paint. The recommended polyurethane is Minwax Clear Satin Polycrylic.

OK, now i am somewhat confused. Today i went out and bought a new quart of SS #1850 and 8oz of Minwax Polyurethane Clear Satin. I mixed it up and put on a first coat on a test board.


I glanced through this post again and noticed you say:

"satin water base polyurethane added."


Then, the best kind is:

"Minwax Clear Satin Polycrylic"


So did i want urethane or crylic? Did i buy the right stuff?


So far the first coat has been drying about an hour and I don't notice much difference between my 2 coats of SS that i put right next to it as reference.


Thanks,

Mitchell
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
OK, i added my second coat and let it dry for 30 or so. If felt dry to the touch so i attached my test board next to the screen and put in The Dark Knight BD.


I have to say that I can not tell any differance at all. Dark and light colors look the same with ambient light and without.


So I see these problems at this point:

1. I used the wrong poly

2. It needs longer to dry

3. Adding the poly makes no differance. (do i need a top coat?)


Suggestions from here?


I was projecting on my ~80" screen with my Optoma HD80 1080p projector (low lamp setting) w/ my Samsung BDP-1500 set at 1080p24.


I really wonder how big of diff. i would see if i purchased a screen. Maybe ill look for local retailers where i can return it.


~Mitchell
 

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OK maybe I am the one that is confused.


I will have to take the time to read through all this again.


For now all I can say is that there is no way you would not see a difference between Behr #1050 tinted Silverscreen and Behr #1850 tinted Behr Silverscreen. Mixing Behr 1850 tinted SS 4:1 with Minwax Satin Polycrylic would make the difference even greater.


Using a proper neutral gray tint in the Behr 1850 Flat Enamel mixed 4:1 with Minwax Satin Polycrylic will make an even bigger difference still.


If you could post a couple of photographs demonstrating the lack of difference that might shed some light on things.
 
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