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Discussion Starter #1
So, I ended up getting a Sim2 C3X-E. It is an incredible machine! However, I am trying to understand how the new built-in CMS works in this thing. I read somewhere that you are supposed to get some software with it to take advantage of the CMS.


Is this software something you run on a computer or is it software that is built into the projector, or a combination of both? If software for a computer is it supposed to be included with the projector or do I need to get it from Sim2?


Lastly, I read that some of the adjustments necessary to calibrate are in the service menu. I already ordered a colorimeter so I can do the calibration myself, as I love to tinker. However, how does one access the service menu? If anybody can PM me with procedure I would be most grateful.


Lastly, do any of you know if this -E model uses the Pixelworks chip or the Faroudja DCDi?
 

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There should have been software included with the projector. The projector has a built-in CMS that allows you to select any of the preset color settings as well as the normal user-type color controls. However, if you want to adjust the grayscale you will need to get access to the service menu. Then, if in addition you want to adjust the primaries and secondaries and a few other things you will need to use the supplied "LiveColors Calibration" software that runs on a personal computer and communicates to the projector via RS232.


I don't know what colorimeter you are getting, but I'd be very careful to note the settings in the service menu (all of them) before you change them. Your colorimeter could very well not be good enough in which case you might need to return it to its original state.


Sim2 will provide you the password to enter the service menu if you call and ask them.


Good luck, and don't screw it up.



Bob
 

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Given the absence of software, I encourage you to use the RS1X and sell me the C3X-E for $4,100. You will have 1080p and a sealed box with RS1X. Throw a HP screen in the mix and you are rocking!


Deal or no deal?
 

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Discussion Starter #4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Giberson /forum/post/14223324


Given the absence of software, I encourage you to use the RS1X and sell me the C3X-E for $4,100. You will have 1080p and a sealed box with RS1X. Throw a HP screen in the mix and you are rocking!


Deal or no deal?

Hey, why are you on here posting rather than being on your boat with that chick?!?!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W. /forum/post/14223213


Lastly, do any of you know if this -E model uses the Pixelworks chip or the Faroudja DCDi?


I answered the same question a while back...



"Pixelworks, but that is only half the story. The standard code gets ripped out. The VP software is written and developed in house specifically for these machines and is one of the main plus points of Sim2 machines. The algorithms are not available elsewhere.The downside is that it adds significantly to the cost.

Most peoples experience is that current external VPs are unable to offer improvements over the onboard VP. I used 2 high end VPs on my HT5000 and both, at best, made no difference at all and in many modes actually degraded the picture. The VP is common across the range. Most Sim2 users totally bypass any VP or receiver for video and go straight to the PJ."


Jason Turk added the following.......


"I have found similar. The internal processor on the Sim2's with the 10bit processing are top notch. I just installed and HT5000 and played with a couple processors. We ended up with a less expensive one mainly to use as a transcoder/switcher as it really didn't add much to the performance.


As coldmachine said, Sim2 does all their designs, programming, software, etc... I have been to the factory and their engineers are on their A game all day long. They source out parts (like the lens) to be physically made, but, they still do all the design work. It was funny, when I was at the factory we were being taken on a tour we passed by one of the optical engineers desks, and on the desktop was a ray trace of the C3X. Now I have a background in optics so I had a larger appreciation than some, but wow, it was impressive."


This custom processing is one of the things that don't appear on spec sheets designed to impress J6P. Graded DMDs being another.



There is an HT5000 thread in the other forum with a similar question regarding external VPs , have a read.




Hope this helps.
 

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I got spooked by the forecast of gale force winds and cancelled. Big mistake. The winds are reasonably calm and I could be cuddling with a cutie. Is it okay to have sex with a woman while fantasizing about a projector?
 

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Discussion Starter #7

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine /forum/post/14223840


I answered the same question a while back...


There is an HT5000 thread in the other forum with the same question, have a read.


Hope this helps.

Thanks CM. By "other forum" do you mean the $20k+ forum?
 

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Discussion Starter #8

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Giberson /forum/post/14223876


I got spooked by the forecast of gale force winds and cancelled. Big mistake. The winds are reasonably calm and I could be cuddling with a cutie. Is it okay to have sex with a woman while fantasizing about a projector?

Well, as long as you aren't having sex with your projector while fantasizing about women all is good.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W. /forum/post/14223961


Thanks CM. By "other forum" do you mean the $20k+ forum?

Yes.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
So, I managed to finagle my way into the service menu, many thanks to one person in particular!


What I found interesting is that once into the service menu, once you leave and go back to the standard menus, when you select the option to view the built-in patterns there are some extra patterns that show up.


One of the patterns is a cross hatch of red, green, and blue lines that show very well the alignment between the 3 DLP chips. I found this quite interesting as I really wasn't sure what to expect in regards to panel alignment.


What I found is that the alignments of the panels varies throughout the image. On the far right side, if I use the blue line as a reference, red is off about half a pixel to the left and green is off by a quarter pixel to the right. As I move to the center of the screen, using the blue line as a reference, red is perhaps 1/8 off to the left and green 1/16 off to the right. As I get to the left side, again using blue as a reference, red is now 1/4 of a pixel off the the RIGHT and green is 1/8 of a pixel off to the LEFT. The numbers I used here are not the actual numbers as I need to measure them, but it gives you an idea of what I mean.


I would have thought that if a panel is slightly off to the right of another panel, that it would be off to the right throughout the image. Is it normal for the convergence to vary across the image? I would guess from what I am seeing is that each DLP chip is getting magnified ever so slightly differently. I am also guessing that as my convergence errors are never worse than 1/2 pixel off that I am within spec? It sure looks crummy when I get close and can see visible lack of convergence, although from a normal viewing distance the picture looks fine.


I am also noticing that I am unable to focus the corners as sharp as the center. I am also guessing that this is relatively par for the course?
 

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1. Its normal that convergence varies across the panel.


2. A max of 1/2, but the vast majority at 1/4-1/16 is within spec, and is actually excellent convergence that will not impact viewing. It would take an HT5000, the best converged unit available, to better that, and even then the improvement would only be noticeable on test patterns with your nose inches from the screen.


3. C2C focus will always show small variations unless you go to the HT5000 level again where the lenses alone are $8k. It also depends what you compare it to or how small the difference is and from what distance. I have T2 equipped C3X1080 that would be judged by any standard as having genuinely exceptional C2C focus. I have posted geometry screen shots from it that are truly outstanding,but if you are nose to screen you will still detect a small difference on a large screen. Your throw can also effect this as a short throw will be using more towards the lens edge. Also make sure you're 100% perpendicular to the scree. If its not noticeable at sensible distances, it effectively doesn't exist.


Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #12

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine /forum/post/14234264


1. Its normal that convergence varies across the panel.


2. A max of 1/2, but the vast majority at 1/4-1/16 is within spec, and is actually excellent convergence that will not impact viewing. It would take an HT5000, the best converged unit available, to better that, and even then the improvement would only be noticeable on test patterns with your nose inches from the screen.

Thanks CM!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W. /forum/post/14234271


Thanks CM!

I just added comments on the focus too.


It sounds like you have a great unit. STOP watching test patterns and get some movies going.
 

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Michael W.


It surely looks like you've got a winner here. The convergence is really very good, slightly better than my C3X 720. I would definitely be satisfied with that. Also, I would not attempt to improve it. I don't know if the C3X-E has convergence adjustment available in the service menu like the 1080 has, but I definitely wouldn't use it. This is not a physical correction, AFAIK, and could very well have some unfavorable consequences perhaps analogous to using keystone correction (another no-no).


I agree with CM. Go enjoy the fabulous image with some real programming!


Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Citation4444 /forum/post/14234655


Michael W.


It surely looks like you've got a winner here. The convergence is really very good, slightly better than my C3X 720. I would definitely be satisfied with that. Also, I would not attempt to improve it. I don't know if the C3X-E has convergence adjustment available in the service menu like the 1080 has, but I definitely wouldn't use it. This is not a physical correction, AFAIK, and could very well have some unfavorable consequences perhaps analogous to using keystone correction (another no-no).


I agree with CM. Go enjoy the fabulous image with some real programming!


Bob

Bob,


Thanks for chiming in. If there was convergence adjustments in the service menu I never saw it. The picture looks awesome to me from my normal viewing distance, so the convergence error doesn't bother me, was just curious about what is normal.


-- Michael
 

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Discussion Starter #17

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk /forum/post/14245461


Congrats on the purchase. The C3XE is a great machine indeed.

Thanks Jason. I really wanted to buy a projector through you guys and I suspect once the new technology trickles down (LED lighting, etc...) I will be knocking down your door!
 

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Discussion Starter #19

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine /forum/post/14234264


3. C2C focus will always show small variations unless you go to the HT5000 level again where the lenses alone are $8k. It also depends what you compare it to or how small the difference is and from what distance. I have T2 equipped C3X1080 that would be judged by any standard as having genuinely exceptional C2C focus. I have posted geometry screen shots from it that are truly outstanding,but if you are nose to screen you will still detect a small difference on a large screen. Your throw can also effect this as a short throw will be using more towards the lens edge. Also make sure you're 100% perpendicular to the scree. If its not noticeable at sensible distances, it effectively doesn't exist.


Hope this helps.

My C3XE has the T2 lens which is a 2:1 - 3:1 lens. My screen is a 110", 8' wide. My room is 18' deep. So, after mounting I am probably 16' from projector lens to screen. This is right at the short throw end of the lens. Would it make sense to change the lens out to the T1 so that I am not at the absolute short throw of the lens range? I recall somebody from Sim2 saying not to mount the projector within the first 6 inches of its throw, which I am sure I am within.
 

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Personally, if its as good as you say (and it should be), why jeopardize that. If it ain't broke....
 
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