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Have I just entered a parallel universe where 4k doesn’t exist? :confused: I am just baffled by all this excitement and talk over lamp based 1080p projectors. Now there is talk on 4k vs 3d again. :eek: Nothing personal, but just sayin’ ....
I just told my wife in the Ultra High End area there’s this guy who is suggesting we trade in our 4K laser projectors for a 1080p lamp model. She laughed and said, “We don’t even have a 1080p TV in this house anywhere!” I just smiled. Damn, I love this woman...

We’re going on 2020 soon... RCA, S-Video, Component, 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i and soon 1080p will join them on the extinct list...
 

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ABSOLUTE ULTIMATE AV
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Discussion Starter #162 (Edited)
Have I just entered a parallel universe where 4k doesn’t exist? :confused: I am just baffled by all this excitement and talk over lamp based 1080p projectors. Now there is talk on 4k vs 3d again. :eek: Nothing personal, but just sayin’ ....
George, since it's clear you haven't done so, please kindly read my review. It's the first post in this thread and I have posted a link wherein you can download the PDF. This should clarify matters for you :)

In short, this HD 1080p resolution projector outperforms all existing 4K resolution projectors costing up to $200K in more ways than one, as well as with respect to overall video performance; and my review both comprehensively explains why and scientifically demonstrates this.

Are you attending CEDIA this year? If so, you will be able to see the SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS in action; wherein you will be able to see this with your own eyes and what the fuss is all about.

Happy to answer any questions you might have and discuss this particular matter with you in more detail after you have read the review :)

:wink:
 

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George, since it's clear you haven't done so, please kindly read my review. It's the first post in this thread and I have posted a link wherein you can download the PDF. This should clarify matters for you.

In short, this HD 1080p resolution projector outperforms all existing 4K resolution projectors costing up to $200K in more ways than one and with respect to overall video performance; and my review both comprehensively explains why and scientifically demonstrates this.

Are you attending CEDIA this year? If so, you will be able to see the SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS in action; wherein you will be able to see this with your own eyes and what the fuss is all about.

Happy to answer any questions you might have and discuss this particular matter with you in more detail after you have read the review :)

:wink:


Arrow I am reading it in detail as we speak. ;) Previously, gave it a quick skim because of the concerns I mentioned from the starting gate. Will follow up in a bit.
 

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Discussion Starter #164 (Edited)
Arrow I am reading it in detail as we speak. ;) Previously, gave it a quick skim because of the concerns I mentioned from the starting gate. Will follow up in a bit.
Good stuff. I look forward to discussing it with you :)

By the way, both myself and @Lasalle also initially prejudged and mentally dismissed this projector because it's not 4K. So I am myself guilty of having done so. :eek: And I expect that the majority of people will do so as well. It's a real 'WTF' moment, isn't it? :D

It was only after I saw it with my own eyes that I changed my perspective. @Alan Gouger had asked me to come and check it out, and I hate to admit it, but it was only because it was a video professional of Alan's calibre doing so that I did. Wherein, I was quite literally shocked by its performance. I sat there completely silent due to being struck dumb. Alan later told me he was worried because I was sitting there not saying anything. I told him that the reason why I wasn't saying anything was because I could not believe what I was seeing.

And then I took comprehensive measurements, which were similarly shocking; wherein, these objectively demonstrate what we have been and are subjectively seeing

The fact of the matter is that with respect to all of dynamic range, contrast and black levels, color performance, gamut coverage, and HDR performance, it significantly outperforms all existing 4K projectors; with only one exception, being the new CHRISTIE... Furthermore, it has 100% perfect uniformity, zero chromatic aberration, and circa 9000 lumens peak light output, to name but a few. If you can point out any 4K projector, other than the CHRISTIE, which equals or exceeds the performance of the SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS in all of these aspects, then please go right ahead :)

:wink:
 

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By the way, both myself and @Lasalle also initially prejudged and mentally dismissed this projector because it's not 4K. So I am myself guilty of having done so. And I think that the majority of people will do this as well. It's a real 'WTF' moment, isn't it? :D

It was only after I saw it with my own eyes that I changed my perspective.
Is there anywhere within Europe where I can see this with my own eyes? :)
 

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Is there anywhere within Europe where I can see this with my own eyes? :)
Not in Europe yet... But you can see one in sunny Florida... or alternatively if you come to CEDIA 2019 in Denver in September you will be able to see it there :)

:wink:
 

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To start, I will say that I have always been drawn to Sim2 projectors, and almost purchased one several times in the past. I recall waiting for the LED version for quite some time, which didn’t quite hit the mark. They had excellent processing, lens and lamp quality/longevity. The fact that they were DLP based also meant longevity, with great uniformity and no realistic worries of panel degradation. The projector form factor/case always drew me in as they were slick little beasts! Not typically a fan of the 1 chip version due to RBE, enhanced dithering/an unsettled nature to the image which caused me some eye fatigue. These units are 3 chip so that’s a great thing.

As far as the HDR Duo Plus goes... it’s a very interesting concept no doubt about that (2 units each projecting different aspects of the image). The projector is very bright, that is until calibrated and the 2020 filters are put in place. So if they are used on a very large screen, pixel structure will rear it’s head, and the AL will be very good, but not exceptional. So it appears theses units were designed for a modestly large size screen, correct? There will then be ample brightness at that size, great hdr and the pixel structure will not be as readily apparent. So in the right room, seating distance and screen size these units could pull off excellent results. 3d will no doubt be excellent. I am impressed what they did with the ON/OFF Contrast, really well done for a DLP based projector. AC as usual, excellent, but no surprise there. But....

The drawbacks make this a tough purchase, at least for me. First very expensive for the “core” older tech (1080p dmd). If I were going to go through the calibration hassle (initial and continuing) of two projectors, the 100k msrp cost, the sub optimal degradation of 2 lamps, then I would of really hoped these units would have been pixel shifted creating high resolution. Many improvements made on this unit will no doubt someday make it into future 4k units. If BenQ has a 4k Laser dlp unit, I would have hoped this was/is Sim’s eventual path.

My comments seem a bit disjointed, perhaps because I see the concept of this model is a bit disjointed. The unit intrigues me, but not so much as to consider it for purchase, no matter how incredible the image. I just can’t get past the cost, lower res, the lamps, and the 2 unit headaches. No doubt it’s a huge and very interesting effort by Sim2 and many will purchase, but this thing seems to define a stopgap nitch product.

Can you imagine the response here if Sim2 created a killer single (or even double) unit 4k laser dlp projector with very high brightness, great HDR and with many of the obvious technological improvements (On/Off Contrast) founded in the HDR Duo Plus? I’m sure it’s a matter of time before such a unit is released. I am not trying to ruffle any feathers here, just giving my opinion on this tech in today’s ever changing climate. Perhaps if I saw the unit in person, I would think differently as it happened to you? On paper, it is a hard sell for sure.

It will be interesting to see if the HDR Duo Plus concept takes off in light of its amazing achievements and weaknesses. Please keep us posted.
 

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Good stuff. I look forward to discussing it with you :)

By the way, both myself and @Lasalle also initially prejudged and mentally dismissed this projector because it's not 4K. So I am myself guilty of having done so. :eek: And I expect that the majority of people will do so as well. It's a real 'WTF' moment, isn't it? :D

It was only after I saw it with my own eyes that I changed my perspective. @Alan Gouger had asked me to come and check it out, and I hate to admit it, but it was only because it was a video professional of Alan's calibre doing so that I did. Wherein, I was quite literally shocked by its performance. I sat there completely silent due to being struck dumb. Alan later told me he was worried because I was sitting there not saying anything. I told him that the reason why I wasn't saying anything was because I could not believe what I was seeing.

And then I took comprehensive measurements, which were similarly shocking; wherein, these objectively demonstrate what we have been and are subjectively seeing

The fact of the matter is that with respect to all of dynamic range, contrast and black levels, color performance, gamut coverage, and HDR performance, it significantly outperforms all existing 4K projectors; with only one exception, being the new CHRISTIE... Furthermore, it has 100% perfect uniformity, zero chromatic aberration, and circa 9000 lumens peak light output, to name but a few. If you can point out any 4K projector, other than the CHRISTIE, which equals or exceeds the performance of the SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS in all of these aspects, then please go right ahead :)

:wink:
We spent 4 hours at CEDIA 2018 together and saw a lot of video and you never mentioned Sim2 so its obvious you never ever thought this was remotely possible that you would months later be singing the praise of a 1080p projector!
 
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We had another 3D viewing session yesterday, the picture was plenty bright with both filters in (P3+). We tried taking one filter out and the picture did get a little brighter, but at the slight expense of contrast and color richness. @Alan Gouger has officially become a 3D fan. Watching Smurfs 2 we both agreed the 3D version exceeded the UHD one (which has some of our reference scenes for HDR).
While the HDR pop of the magic blue light was more pronounced on UHD, it was still very close on 3D. But as good as the depth of picture was on the UHD, the 3D blue it away. It puts you in the movie. It’s surprising how good the 8bit color content can look.
Indeed. I must say I am typically not a 3D fan yet I found myself more immersed watching the 3D version on the SIM2 Duo. I now recommend more 3D glasses for Brad:)
Sounds like one heck of a 3D image. Not easy winning over a non 3Der. I always say I don't like 3d, I like great 3d.
 
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Good stuff. I look forward to discussing it with you :)

By the way, both myself and @Lasalle also initially prejudged and mentally dismissed this projector because it's not 4K. So I am myself guilty of having done so. :eek: And I expect that the majority of people will do so as well. It's a real 'WTF' moment, isn't it? :D

It was only after I saw it with my own eyes that I changed my perspective. @Alan Gouger had asked me to come and check it out, and I hate to admit it, but it was only because it was a video professional of Alan's calibre doing so that I did. Wherein, I was quite literally shocked by its performance. I sat there completely silent due to being struck dumb. Alan later told me he was worried because I was sitting there not saying anything. I told him that the reason why I wasn't saying anything was because I could not believe what I was seeing.

And then I took comprehensive measurements, which were similarly shocking; wherein, these objectively demonstrate what we have been and are subjectively seeing

The fact of the matter is that with respect to all of dynamic range, contrast and black levels, color performance, gamut coverage, and HDR performance, it significantly outperforms all existing 4K projectors; with only one exception, being the new CHRISTIE... Furthermore, it has 100% perfect uniformity, zero chromatic aberration, and circa 9000 lumens peak light output, to name but a few. If you can point out any 4K projector, other than the CHRISTIE, which equals or exceeds the performance of the SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS in all of these aspects, then please go right ahead :)

:wink:
Actually you (and I, aswell as others) were quite disappointed at its ISE presentation. I also had heared good reports from Alan, so was keen to see it in Amsterdam. I sat through the press presentaton. You had an extensive private presentation, so could go in depth, and we all walked away thinking what's the fuss about. You later attended an UK demo, and was completely turned around, Sim2 vindicating itself. This still being the same original non PLUS system Alan had raved about. And now there is the final version, the PLUS.
 

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Discussion Starter #171
Actually you (and I, aswell as others) were quite disappointed at its ISE presentation. I also had heared good reports from Alan, so was keen to see it in Amsterdam. I sat through the press presentaton. You had an extensive private presentation, so could go in depth, and we all walked away thinking what's the fuss about. You later attended an UK demo, and was completely turned around, Sim2 vindicating itself. This still being the same original non PLUS system Alan had raved about. And now there is the final version, the PLUS.
Almost, but not quite... The UK demo was the same early version that we both saw at ISE, which was indeed very disappointing. Suffice to say that this is not what you and I saw then Donald. The difference in performance of the SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS as compared with that early version of the SIM2 HDR DUO is night and day.

To be perfectly honest I was expecting to be seeing something very similar to that when I visited @Alan Gouger to see the HDR DUO PLUS for the first time, which is partly why I was so shocked when I saw its performance. Suffice to say that it is NOTHING like what you and I saw back then at ISE and then I saw again at the UK demo. Not even close.

Do you think you might make CEDIA this year Donald? It would be great if you could see it :)

:wink:
 

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Almost, but not quite... The UK demo was the same early version that we both saw at ISE, which was indeed very disappointing. Suffice to say that this is not what you and I saw then Donald. The difference in performance of the SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS as compared with that early version of the SIM2 HDR DUO is night and day.

To be perfectly honest I was expecting to be seeing something very similar to that when I visited @Alan Gouger to see the HDR DUO PLUS for the first time, which is partly why I was so shocked when I saw its performance. Suffice to say that it is NOTHING like what you and I saw back then at ISE and then I saw again at the UK demo. Not even close.

Do you think you might make CEDIA this year Donald? It would be great if you could see it :)

:wink:
Hmm, my memory may be playing tricks on me I remember you telling me that it had improved plenty when demoed in London. Anyway, good to hear it performs as it does, now. That's what matters.

I don't think I will be able to, nor Infocomm, and the associated demonstration event at LaSalle's.
 

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Perception is the major issue for this projector (s).

1080p can look absolutely spectacular; however, when spending this kind of money it is all about perception -- 4K has to be better, whether we can see the difference or not just like 8K has to be better, whether we can see the difference or not over 4K or even 2K. It's all about pixel density -- this marketing promotion can't be just more hype and spin, can it?

I don't have an issue wth the resolution limitations except I know many do and that makes resale unpalatable -- once delivered its probably lost 70% of its value -- not a good beginning.

Second problem -- and the hardest to overcome for me is the lack of lasers. I own a number of projectors and one of them uses a laser rather than a lamp. This is the projector that gets used the most by far -- all most like a T.V. It is a lot easier to rationalize an expensive purchase if it's going to get a lot of use. Instead of one lamp to worry about you now have two. What you will probably end up with is a very expensive toy that will only get used on rare special occasions.

I love 3D and the comments about its 3D performance are seductive but with 3D (home) releases declining the laws of diminishing returns kick in big time.

For me, there's just too much new tech coming on stream to justify spending this kind of money on "old tech" no matter how good the image is -- it's all about perception.
 

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Dear SIM2 Friend,

See with your eyes what all the excellent NERO4S reviews from all over the world are about.

Join SIM2 at the forthcoming Technology & Business Summit TEXAS:

May 21 in Huston
Hilton Houston Post Oak
2001 Post Oak Blvd.
Houston, TX 77056

May 23 in Dallas
Texas Motor Speedway
3545 Lone Star Circle
Fort Worth, TX 77056


This is a perfect opportunity to see "SIM2's 4K HDR superhero" (Home Cinema Choice definition), which is one of the strongest and most competent performer in 4K home cinema projection.
You will discover "the most spectacular 4k picture I have tested" (John Archer - Home Cinema Choice), "One Of The Most Satisfying UHD/HDR Projectors I’ve Used At Any Price." (Doug Blackburn - Widescreen Review)

SIM2 staff will be there to demo it for you and answer any question you may have. If you wish to book a meeting in advance, please write us at [email protected] or click on the button below.
 

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Dear SIM2 Friend,

See with your eyes what all the excellent NERO4S reviews from all over the world are about.

Join SIM2 at the forthcoming Technology & Business Summit TEXAS:

May 21 in Huston
Hilton Houston Post Oak
2001 Post Oak Blvd.
Houston, TX 77056
Will you have the HD version on display as well? Now I just might have to go...
 

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Senor.. this is organized by CEDIA I am a lowly end user.. who got a invite and will swing by to take a look as it is 10 minutes from my home.
ah ha, I see.
I have only gotten emails from the rep firms but no mention of demos other than Sony, so I thought you had the inside info.

Have fun.
 

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I just told my wife in the Ultra High End area there’s this guy who is suggesting we trade in our 4K laser projectors for a 1080p lamp model. She laughed and said, “We don’t even have a 1080p TV in this house anywhere!” I just smiled. Damn, I love this woman...

We’re going on 2020 soon... RCA, S-Video, Component, 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i and soon 1080p will join them on the extinct list...

Funny coming from a guy who's signature says, "Ignore the Rules, Trust Your Eyes."
 

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Funny coming from a guy who's signature says, "Ignore the Rules, Trust Your Eyes."
Read it carefully... it says 4K HDR10 nothing about 1080p... haven’t had 1080p here in a very long time...
 
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