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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,


In all the excitement of CES, I may have missed this, but has there been any *official* (ie: press release or insider comments) that indicate whether or not the 51GB disc can be read by existing HD-DVD units (either the 1st generation stuff like the A1, or the second generation stuff like the A2 or XBOX 360)?


I'm interested only in supportable feedback, though. (ie: answer from Blu-Ray supporters of "of course not, it can't be becasue HD-DVD sucks" are not terribly helpful).


I recognize that 30GB isn't necessarily too small (its been more than enough so far) but if the 51gb discs become available I think it would go a long way toward ending the format war (because size is the only "advantage" I really see Blu-Ray having -- studio support will warm up if that advantage is taken away, in my humble and not very significant opinion).
 

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As long as the DVD FORUM didn't approuve the format, it's vaporware. If, and only If the DVD FORUM approuve the spec then in will become true one day..
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by deria /forum/post/0


Hi,


In all the excitement of CES, I may have missed this, but has there been any *official* (ie: press release or insider comments) that indicate whether or not the 51GB disc can be read by existing HD-DVD units (either the 1st generation stuff like the A1, or the second generation stuff like the A2 or XBOX 360)?

I'll answer your question. The answer is no, nothing official has been stated and no one knows the answer. Anything else said is pure speculation.


What the other poster said above about the DVD forum approving the spec is when we will find out. Once the spec has been seen/approved or whatever, then they'll know if the first generation players are capable of reading a 3 layer disc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
In that case I guess the question really becomes one of how long it will take the DVD Forum to do their thing.


I had hoped that there would be a simple answer since the people responsible for the three layer disc are also responsible for the existing players (ie: Toshiba). They could set alot of peoples minds at ease with an announcement.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by deria /forum/post/0


Hi,


In all the excitement of CES, I may have missed this, but has there been any *official* (ie: press release or insider comments) that indicate whether or not the 51GB disc can be read by existing HD-DVD units (either the 1st generation stuff like the A1, or the second generation stuff like the A2 or XBOX 360)?


I'm interested only in supportable feedback, though. (ie: answer from Blu-Ray supporters of "of course not, it can't be becasue HD-DVD sucks" are not terribly helpful).


I recognize that 30GB isn't necessarily too small (its been more than enough so far) but if the 51gb discs become available I think it would go a long way toward ending the format war (because size is the only "advantage" I really see Blu-Ray having -- studio support will warm up if that advantage is taken away, in my humble and not very significant opinion).

Well considering that drives in first generation HD DVD players could already read triple layer 45GB discs, I believe there would be no issue in updating the firmware to read a slightly more packed layer that went from 15GB to 17GB. The DVD Forum would not introduce a new spec that would be incompatible with hundreds of thousands of existing HD DVD players.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean_O /forum/post/0


They pushed for that extra 1GIG just to trump BD50

Well they need to trump BD200 when it comes out ...some 150 gig more. It was a nice effort though.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dylanneild /forum/post/0


WEll, to be fair i think both 100GB BD discs (which have been shown working) and 51GB HD-DVD discs are probably going to happen sometime - just not for -ROM applications. It'll probably be RW/R/RE apps - data uses and such.

51GB HD DVD discs will also be ROM.
 

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This may answer your question...especially the last paragraph. Full article is here: DVD TIMES INTERVIEW

Quote:
DVD Times Interview With Toshiba Engineer, Jim Armour:

DVDTimes: Moving onto the questions about the format now. Reading AVSForum.com [in America], there's some rumours going around about the actual capacity of the discs. I think NEC have announced a new drive for PCs, and that can supposedly read the triple-layer 45gb discs.
Jim Armour, Toshiba: Even although the disc is not ratified yet by the [DVD] Forum?
DVDTimes: That's what I was going to ask you - what's happening with that. Is it likely we'll see a 45gb disc out?
Jim Armour, Toshiba: The triple layer disc is not actually due out until next year. I believe that the actual book type will not be ratified by something like June next year [2007]. So, announcing they can read triple layer is very odd.
DVDTimes: It'd have to go through the DVD Forum, wouldn't it?
Jim Armour, Toshiba: Yes, definitely. The version of the book we're on now is something like 0.4, which is a very early stage. Until the actual format is approved by the Forum, we're expecting about another four months for it to go through. And then, they'd upgrade the book to 0.8. Then, they do physical layer testing and things of that nature, so we're expecting the book type to be released probably mid-next year.
DVDTimes: So, if that does come out, do you know if the current drives would be able to read it with a firmware update? Is there any likelihood that we'll ever see triple-layer film discs?
Jim Armour, Toshiba: Any likelihood... well, if we're actually creating the format, I think there's a likelihood. There is a likelihood - a 45gb capacity could be very useful. Whether drives can read it, I don't know - because, basically the specification hasn't been set. It's like when the first Dual Layer DVD-Rs came out, really old drives couldn't read it. [...] It could well be the same situation. Until the standard has been specified and ratified, you can't really say whether it'll be able to read it.


I would go as far, in fact, to say probably not. You're having to focus through two primary layers. The amount of reflected energy that you're going to get back will be quite low. Now in my opinion, in order to read this kind of media, you're going to need something like - do you know your way around the term PRML?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronSCH /forum/post/0


This may answer your question...especially the last pparagraph.

You do understand that a Toshiba engineer is not suppose to be making any announcements prior to it being official? This was pre-CES 2007, so his answer was "I don't know" and "probably not". He could not say "YES". Now that 51GB HD DVDs have been announced, I'd be curious to know what his response would be. Regarding any PRML issues, I believe this would have already been resolved given that drives are already capable of reading TL (see the link I posted above).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SyHD /forum/post/0


Well they need to trump BD200 when it comes out ...some 150 gig more. It was a nice effort though.

Why would they? I doubt anyone will even use a BD200. Who's going to pay $100 to have an entire season of a TV show on one or two discs? People want more perceived value for their money.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dylanneild /forum/post/0


Can you provide a link? Everything that is being said so far suggests there will never be movies on TL HD-DVD (not that it's stopping people from saying otherwise).
Link


"The new disc can store up to 7 hours of high-definition video and adds an extended capacity, high-end option to the already extensive line-up of HD DVD-ROM discs. Toshiba aims to secure approval of the new disc by the DVD Forum within this year.


The new ROM disc has a three-layer structure, with each layer storing 17GB of data. The advances capacity over current ROM discs, which hold 15GB of data in each layer of a single-sided disc. Continued improvement in disc mastering technology has achieved further minimization in the recording pit, supporting a further boost in capacity to 17GB in single layer and a full 51GB on a single-sided triple-layer disc. Toshiba has confirmed the disc structure and its successful operation."

 

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That Jim Armour quote was about TL 45 and the conclusions were mixed. If I recall correctly, NEC has a footnote in its specifications about the drive that says that the G1 drives were compatible with TL45. In the actual text I believe it never explicitely acknowledged the footnote. Jim Armour's comments were then taken as confirmation that G1 couldn't do it, but there was nothing else mentioned as everyone realized that 30GB was enough for some damng good HD and the TL issue faded.


Frankly, I think that one can just buy a new HD DVD drive and perhaps upgrade your G1 machine if its such a big deal. Some new fw to utilize the drive properly and you're set. Hopefully we'll have a discrete off by then (oh and some DVD-A support would always be welcome)... TL51 ain't gonna be arriving this year.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceflow /forum/post/0


Frankly, I think that one can just buy a new HD DVD drive and perhaps upgrade your G1 machine if its such a big deal. Some new fw to utilize the drive properly and you're set. Hopefully we'll have a discrete off by then (oh and some DVD-A support would always be welcome)... TL51 ain't gonna be arriving this year.

That is hoping for a lot imo.
 
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