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Discussion Starter #1
Real 3D for Home Theater means that you have a 3D projector, and all the HDMI 1.4 cables and other infrastructure needed to allow you to watch something like a 3D Blu-ray of Avatar at home. A problem with real 3D is content. Most 3D movies are kiddie cartoons or horror films. That's getting better but it's still a problem. And 3D may not last. It has come and gone at least twice before. After spending several thousand dollars to get a new 3D set up you risk the whole format dying out from under you.


So I'm not real interested in real 3D. However simulated 3D sounds interesting. Let's say I decide to watch "Australia", the epic of a few years ago. It promises great vistas and sweeping panoramas. Of course it wasn't shot in 3D but maybe I could see it in simulated 3D? That might be worth it if it actually enhances the existing images.


A couple reviewers have commented on simulated 3D as if it were a condiment - a little added feature - not the main course. But it seems to me that most adults will end up watching more simulated 3D rather than real 3D, unless they have small children.


So my question is - How does simulated 3D work? Where does it get the depth information? Does it require especially fast processing? Does it work better with DLP, or LCoS or LCD? Or does that not matter?
 

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Best review I've heard for simulated 3D (2D -> 3D Conversion) on a projector is the upcoming Mitsubishi 7800 (I haven't seen a projector personally). For BD players, the Samsung is the best right now, but it can be a finicky player overall. For a display unit, the Samsung plasma appears to be the best I've seen so far.


S~
 

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It tries to put stuff near the top in the background and object near the bottom in the foreground.


I don't like any of the simulated 3D.


Actual 3D Blu Rays are great though. Like the 3D of yesteryear without messing up the colors and such. It's GREAT!


I don't have a 3D projector or a 3D capable AVR but products from 3D-VIP let me use my existing components to view 3D.


-Brian
 

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Yeah,


And in that forum you will see Monoprice sells a $100 box that simulates 3D for 3D capable and non 3D Capable displays.


At least it's fairly cheap to "try it".


-Brian
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLB /forum/post/20913542


Real 3D for Home Theater means that you have a 3D projector, and all the HDMI 1.4 cables and other infrastructure needed to allow you to watch something like a 3D Blu-ray of Avatar at home. A problem with real 3D is content. Most 3D movies are kiddie cartoons or horror films. That's getting better but it's still a problem. And 3D may not last. It has come and gone at least twice before. After spending several thousand dollars to get a new 3D set up you risk the whole format dying out from under you.


So I'm not real interested in real 3D. However simulated 3D sounds interesting. Let's say I decide to watch "Australia", the epic of a few years ago. It promises great vistas and sweeping panoramas. Of course it wasn't shot in 3D but maybe I could see it in simulated 3D? That might be worth it if it actually enhances the existing images.


A couple reviewers have commented on simulated 3D as if it were a condiment - a little added feature - not the main course. But it seems to me that most adults will end up watching more simulated 3D rather than real 3D, unless they have small children.


So my question is - How does simulated 3D work? Where does it get the depth information? Does it require especially fast processing? Does it work better with DLP, or LCoS or LCD? Or does that not matter?

The new Sony VPL-HW30AES and 30ES have it built in the projector. Read the thread, some like it alot.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLB
So my question is - How does simulated 3D work? Where does it get the depth information?
Long story short, the 3D effect is achieved by showing you an image from slightly different angles in your right eye and left eye. Simulated 3D works similarly to "SmoothMotion," "MotionFlow," etc. features. It interpolates the second eye's view based on pixels in the existing content.


This will always be inferior to content shot in real 3D, especially when the conversion is done on-the-fly inside a TV or disc player.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Smooth Motion and other such technologies are quite simple to understand even if they are difficult to implement. Basically SmoothMotion is "tweening".


In animation software the machine will interpolate the intermediate positions when you define a sprite at position X at the start and position Y and the completion. The software creates the intermediate frames by creating a new image with the background fixed but in each new frame the foreground object has been placed along a path with its position equal to the distance divided by the number of frames. If the sprite is a solid object like a submarine this is pretty easy. If it is a complex object like an animal with a walk cycle it's a little harder.


Somehow certain projectors are able to infer that a certain set of pixels may be treated as an object and that object is replicated along a path to the next key-frame. The hard part wouldn't be the replication of the object and the tweening but rather the identification of an object. Presumably this is done through motion parallax detection.


I'm sure that with faster processing SmoothMotion will get better and better as the engineers learn better how to analyze the elements in a frame.


I can speculate that for Simulated 3D the processor again identifies foreground objects through motion parallax and can thereafter assign objects to various depth planes.


I can always make up an explanation but I had hoped that someone actually knew.


The reason this is important is that if Simulated 3D is created by means of an algorithm that creates virtual objects though their relative motions (motion parallax) and then assigns them to virtual planes then we can expect the techniques to get better with the working of Moore's law. We can also expect it to work on all visual materials - video, film animation.
 

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I'm sure that the 3D simulation algorithms will get better over time. However, you're asking an awfully lot for a chip inside a TV or projector to analyze and assign depth cues to content on-the-fly. These are really aesthetic and artistic decisions that are best made by a person.


When the Hollywood studios convert their movies to 3D (at least, the better examples), they have teams of people that spend months to make those decisions. And even then, more often than not, viewers can still tell that it's fake 3D almost instantly.


Here's an article where the people who converted The Lion King to 3D talk about how they did it:

http://collider.com/the-lion-king-3d...images/108381/
 

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Keep an eye on 3D-Bee when users start reporting in the 3D Tech forum. Should be within a couple of weeks. They had a lot of excited broadcast and cable type folks' reponses reportedly at CES this year.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z /forum/post/20919357


I'm sure that the 3D simulation algorithms will get better over time. However, you're asking an awfully lot for a chip inside a TV or projector to analyze and assign depth cues to content on-the-fly. These are really aesthetic and artistic decisions that are best made by a person....

A good analogy could be simulated multi channel DSP audio. When first introduced it was very primitive and gimmicky at best. Each generation improved but it took over a decade before we got PLII and DTS Neo and it's still not the same as a true multi channel mix. It will probably be at least 5 years before on the fly conversion becomes even passable (in my book).
 
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