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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've decided to go with... both! I am going to do a bake-off, and figure out what to do with the loser later. I've picked up a used F12SE off the forums, and am waiting on production of the eD A3s-250s. I promise to keep updating this thread as I play with the system (biggest pet peeve of forum postings is the "hey, what should I get... I promise to post my results... end of thread." There will be follow-through here, so subscribe!


Best,

- rupnok


**********************************************

Hey folks,


I wanted to throw out a very simple question. I have read through a whole heck of a lot of threads, and understand the variety of options available to me. I have read about the usual options from HSU, SVS, and Epik. I have a 5.0 system made by AV123 (X-Statik/X-Voce/X-Omni), in a medium-sized apartment, on the second floor. I am powering it via a Denon 1909. I am a weekday music & TV/weekend movie guy (so I guess 60/40 music to HT).


I have narrowed my choices to a FRONT FIRING sub, with an inclination to a SEALED sub, and SMALL footprint, given my apartment situation, and preference for music. I seriously considered the SVS PB12+ and Epik Vanquish. But I've narrowed my choices to two options:


(1) Sealed Rythmik Servo F12G 12", Sealed, Front-Firing, with GR Research paper-cone. This would be semi-DIY, where eD would build the cabinet, and I would assemble.


(2) Dual eD A3s-250 10", Sealed, Front-Firing. These would be pre-orders, at a pretty competitive price (which I can't disclose). In production process now, and will be out in a month or so.


I like bass, but I like where I live as well - hence a desire for good quality (SQ) bass, without the "rumble" and "room shaking" of a real HT sub that goes down to 5Hz (an exaggeration!). Room has a few peaks & nulls, that I have to eQ out (thinking about the BFD/REW setup).


(1) I like the thought of two very small footprint placed to smooth out EQ, or even stacked to provide a little extra hump when I want it (on the weekends).


(2) I am in awe of the great reviews of the Rythmik F12 servos, and having experienced wonderful speakers by Danny Ritchie, I am inclined to take his design advice seriously, and he swears by the Rythmik servo design.


I do hope that I have been thorough in explaining what I a looking for. These forums have been a great resource for me, and I am certain that my choice will be one of the two options described. Would love your guy's take on what I should do.


Thanks!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rupnok /forum/post/16965819


Hey folks,


I wanted to throw out a very simple question. I have read through a whole heck of a lot of threads, and understand the variety of options available to me. I have read about the usual options from HSU, SVS, and Epik. I have a 5.0 system made by AV123 (X-Statik/X-Voce/X-Omni), in a medium-sized apartment, on the second floor. I am powering it via a Denon 1909. I am a weekday music & TV/weekend movie guy (so I guess 60/40 music to HT).


I have narrowed my choices to a FRONT FIRING sub, with an inclination to a SEALED sub, and SMALL footprint, given my apartment situation, and preference for music. I seriously considered the SVS PB12+ and Epik Vanquish. But I've narrowed my choices to two options:


(1) Sealed Rythmik Servo F12G 12", Sealed, Front-Firing, with GR Research paper-cone. This would be semi-DIY, where eD would build the cabinet, and I would assemble.


(2) Dual eD A3s-250 10", Sealed, Front-Firing. These would be pre-orders, at a pretty competitive price (which I can't disclose). In production process now, and will be out in a month or so.


I like bass, but I like where I live as well - hence a desire for good quality (SQ) bass, without the "rumble" and "room shaking" of a real HT sub that goes down to 5Hz (an exaggeration!). Room has a few peaks & nulls, that I have to eQ out (thinking about the BFD/REW setup).


(1) I like the thought of two very small footprint placed to smooth out EQ, or even stacked to provide a little extra hump when I want it (on the weekends).


(2) I am in awe of the great reviews of the Rythmik F12 servos, and having experienced wonderful speakers by Danny Ritchie, I am inclined to take his design advice seriously, and he swears by the Rythmik servo design.


I do hope that I have been thorough in explaining what I a looking for. These forums have been a great resource for me, and I am certain that my choice will be one of the two options described. Would love your guy's take on what I should do.


Thanks!


Given that 40% of your listening is music, the Rythmik would be my recommendation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I was hoping for someone with experience with eD sealed subs to chime in... Obviously the Rythmik is a highly regarded musical sub, but I've also heard great things on the s-series of subs from eD.


What value is there in the servo for someone that is not pushing their sub too hard? Am I going to get more value from two smaller 10" sealed that can help smooth frequency response in the room...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Part thread-bump (title changed to be reflective of question); part clarification.


(1) Room Size is 24x12x12 (open to kitchen and hallway, and VERY tall ceilings)

(1) The price differential between the two options is in favor of the dual 10" by about $150

(2) As far as upgrade path - the Rythmik would be semi-DIY, and therefore less attractive to sell

(3) Dual 10s may be stacked, and the second only turned on during "movie-watching"
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by RXPorlando /forum/post/16966366


orb super 8 is nice for small rooms with out getting complaints? I have the 8 hooked up to my tv sub out put and does just enough.

The eD A3s-250 is a 10" sealed, 300W sub. The Orb Super 8 is a 8", 200W sub, that is more expensive. I believe I will stick with the eD as the favored alternative to the Rythmik.


I appreciate the suggestion though!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by supermoore1025 /forum/post/16974415


How do you order the A3-250s, I don't see it on their site
http://forum.edesignaudio.com/showth...and-71688.html


A3S-250

Sealed 10" w/ 300w.

Dimensions:

14.25" W x 14.25" H (Plus .5" isolation pad) x 14.25" D (Plus .75" grill and amplifier dials)


Intro Price $315

Website Price $350

List Price $400
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii /forum/post/16974777


I've been tossing around the idea of getting an A3s-250 as well...


What I'm trying to figure out is if the performance without the eQ.2 is worthwhile, at least for now.

They offer an eQ.2 for $85 with purchase of the sub. I've been playing around with the idea of going for the Behringer Frequency Destroyer (BFD) with the REW software plugin. The BFD can handle two separate channels of EQ... which would be perfect for a dual-sub setup.


The eQ.2 is only a two-band PEQ... and from what I've read, a little hard to dial-in properly because the knobs are so small.
 

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I have the Rythmik Audio F12G w/ the A300SE amp that Danny offered thru a GR Research deal earlier this year on Audio Circle forum. Included in my 5.1 system are av123 ELT525 towers & center, & Paradigm Dipole surrounds powered by a Denon avr-1909. Also have an Oppo BDP-83 Blu-ray player. My den is approx. 17' x 11' x 8', but it has 3 door openings & 2 smaller openings to a sunroom. My mix is 60% HT/ 40% music.


I love the F12G! Danny's comments from Audio Circle/ GR Research thread are spot on. Very musical for a sub. Very fast, so doesn't have the same impact for HT as some subs I've heard; but then I tend to think that the wall shaking thing is bit ridiculous. I usually dial back Dolby TrueHD & DTS-Master Audio a fair amount when watching Blu-ray movies.


2 thumbs up if you can swing it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhcorolla /forum/post/16982127


I have the Rythmik Audio F12G w/ the A300SE amp that Danny offered thru a GR Research deal earlier this year on Audio Circle forum. Included in my 5.1 system are av123 ELT525 towers & center, & Paradigm Dipole surrounds powered by a Denon avr-1909. Also have an Oppo BDP-83 Blu-ray player. My den is approx. 17' x 11' x 8', but it has 3 door openings & 2 smaller openings to a sunroom. My mix is 60% HT/ 40% music.


I love the F12G! Danny's comments from Audio Circle/ GR Research thread are spot on. Very musical for a sub. Very fast, so doesn't have the same impact for HT as some subs I've heard; but then I tend to think that the wall shaking thing is bit ridiculous. I usually dial back Dolby TrueHD & DTS-Master Audio a fair amount when watching Blu-ray movies.


2 thumbs up if you can swing it.

rhcorolla,


Thanks for the response - your feedback is very much in line with what I've heard from others: the Rythmik F12 G is a great musical sub... that leaves a little bit to be desired in the "punch" department when it comes to HT.


Basically, I'm on the fence in regards to whether the eD A3s-250s are going to be "musical enough" for me. I think the trade-off is punch (two sealed 10" with 300w apiece) to musicality (Rythmik). Unfortunately this isn't going to be solved - unless I went with the Rythmik F15 or AV123 MFW-15... infeasible given my apartment situation!


I think I am going to order the A3s-250s @ introductory pricing, and demo them for 30 days. If I'm unhappy, I will return, and go the semi-DIY route with the Rythmik. I can't say the same for the Rythmik, considering the cabinet alone is going to cost me ~$200, and is non-refundable...
 

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Understand your thought process. The eD subs are well thought of, & (2) of their 10" subs would be sweet.



I owned dual 15" subs in my distant past & enjoyed them very much.


But musically for audio, my previous 4 sub iterations couldn't touch the F12G musically. It has excellent punch btw, but just not as lingering as some other choices HT-wise.


Either option you choose is excellent. It's a win-win situation.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rupnok /forum/post/16982760


I can't say the same for the Rythmik, considering the cabinet alone is going to cost me ~$200, and is non-refundable...

If you buy the completed Rythmik I think it comes with a 30-day satisfaction guarantee. That would enable you to try it.


Then order the Rythmik at the same time as the eD and you can do a direct shootout between them in your room and see which is the keeper.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong /forum/post/16984107


If you buy the completed Rythmik I think it comes with a 30-day satisfaction guarantee. That would enable you to try it.


Then order the Rythmik at the same time as the eD and you can do a direct shootout between them in your room and see which is the keeper.

Good point...


The complete F12G should be less than $100 more than the kit + cabinet + shipping costs...


What you gain for that roughly $100 is the option to return, better chance at resale down the line, and a complete sub without any assembly needed. You're resticted in finish options though...but I can't imagine eD's matte black being any better than the black oak vinyl on the Rythmik...


The downside is that you'd still be out about $100 shipping (round trip) if you returned the Rythmik, and I imagine return shipping on the dual eD subs wouldn't be cheap either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii /forum/post/16984824


Good point...


The complete F12G should be less than $100 more than the kit + cabinet + shipping costs...


What you gain for that roughly $100 is the option to return, better chance at resale down the line, and a complete sub without any assembly needed. You're restricted in finish options though...but I can't imagine eD's matte black being any better than the black oak vinyl on the Rythmik...


The downside is that you'd still be out about $100 shipping (round trip) if you returned the Rythmik, and I imagine return shipping on the dual eD subs wouldn't be cheap either.

Your calculations are pretty spot on...but with $100 savings, I get a match between the subs & my mains in terms of finish. Hey - if I'm paying $800 for a sub - I want the aesthetics too! That said, your point is totally valid. I gain the ability to audition/return/better resale potential going with the Rythmik built option. Fact is that there are a few used ones out there from Danny's spring promotion - with the smaller 300W sub in honey oak - at great discounts (I've gotten a few PMs). I also have an opportunity to buy the non-GR SE (piano gloss) at a pretty attractive price (god bless these forums!), but that's a little less exciting because of the aluminum cone (not a huge fan of them...)


I am really torn here - because I am basically buying the eDs on spec and rep, and have never heard the Rythmik in person. Ah... the travails of going internet direct! Return shipping on the dual eD 10s would probably be in the neighborhood of $80...

Any one in the MA area have a Rythmik servo that they'd be willing to audition for me?


Here's hoping I am satisfied with the eDs! errrr :-/
 

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I have Rythmik F12SE with the aluminum driver. It blends in extremely well with some of the standmount speakers I've tried it with like the Monitor Audio PL100. Another nice feature is all the filters, like the low frequency cutoff, rumble filter, and cross-over slope adjustment. I find the sound quality is excellent. The sub should have more than enough output for an apartment IMO.


Two reasons I went with the aluminum cone. First, since I use the sub for home theater as well, I thought the aluminum cone might hold up a bit better at the limits of its output. Second, I wanted the gloss finish. The paper cone is probably a bit better for music at lower volumes though. Bit more dynamic.


Never heard the eD subs, but I didn't want to risk anything for music performance. Go for the Rythmik...I think you'd even be satisfied with the aluminum cone.


BTW, where are the deals for the GR version or even the gloss back aluminum cone version? PM me if you have any leads.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rupnok /forum/post/16985012


I also have an opportunity to buy the non-GR SE (piano gloss) at a pretty attractive price (god bless these forums!), but that's a little less exciting because of the aluminum cone (not a huge fan of them...)

What is it about aluminum cones you don't like?


I've never had a sub with an aluminum driver, so I know nothing about them...
 

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Honestly, i can't speak to the SQ of the sealed eD's. but i can tell you that my A2-300 sounds fantastic. For a point of reference, i have a JL 10w3v3 in a sealed box with a 250w jl amp (about an $700 setup) and the eD sound almost as good, and its ported.


If getting dual subs isnt a problem for you, i would hop on that any day of the week over a single Rythmik. Don't get me wrong, the rythmiks are great subs. But 2 subs has too many advantages to ignore.


If you were more like 60% music 40% HT, id say go with the Rythmik. Otherwise, were it my money, i'd go the eD route.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii /forum/post/16985376


What is it about aluminum cones you don't like?


I've never had a sub with an aluminum driver, so I know nothing about them...

For listening at low to moderate volumes - a paper or other low-mass drivers are a better fit. The tradeoff (as there are always tradeoffs) is the inability for paper drivers to handle high output without distortion. vantagesc hit the nail on the head:

Quote:
Originally Posted by vantagesc /forum/post/16985238


Two reasons I went with the aluminum cone. First, since I use the sub for home theater as well, I thought the aluminum cone might hold up a bit better at the limits of its output. Second, I wanted the gloss finish. The paper cone is probably a bit better for music at lower volumes though. Bit more dynamic.

Given that my music listening is in the -25 to -30dB (~70dB), the paper driver is preferred. I will cross them over at about 60, with a very slight boost at the top end to compensate for the gradual roll-off of my X-Statiks at 65hz.


From Brian (Rythmik's site)


"The main performance difference is in the drivers. F12G uses a paper driver designed by GR Research. The paper driver is lighter than our standard aluminum drivers and has a more extended response. It can handle a higher crossover point, however, this is only significant when crossing above 80 Hz If a higher crossover point is desired, F12G is the subwoofer of choice. Please note: when crossing this high, localization can become an issue and dual subwoofers are recommended. Regarding the lower mass, this results in slightly better dynamics at low to moderate output levels. The downside with the paper cone is that it is not as stiff as our aluminum drivers. As a result, the performance suffers more at high output, especially with a small sealed box."
 
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