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). It figures that Orb would tell you smaller is better - that is their whole shtick. I suspect Dayton or Adire would tell you otherwise...| Originally Posted by UNICRON-WMD Size doesn't matter, don't let your girl tell you any differently! Basically buy the sub that sounds the best and preforms the best. If you calibrate it properly, it shouldn't be too much. Also, there is NO such thing as a FAST or SLOW subwoofer. That is a myth. |
| Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass Then how do you account for the differences in group delay at different bass frequencies when you compare various subwoofers??? |
| Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt Speaker drivers are minimum phase devices meaning their group delay is a function of their frequency response. Sub woofers with shallower roll-offs have less group delay. For the same F3 point a sealed sub-woofer will have less group delay than a ported design (less than half). Sub woofers with lower bass extension have less group delay. With the same Q a sealed box which is -3dB @ 20 Hz will have half the group delay of one that's -3dB @ 40Hz. This has no relationship to the driver size. A 18" driver with the same frequency response as an 8" driver will share its group delay. I also don't think that low group delay is perceived as fast bass. 1. A paucity of low bass and extra mid/upper bass seem faster. Conversely excess low bass is slow and bloated. 2. A lower Q woofer sounds faster. For the same F3 point a lower Q design does have less group delay. Since Q is half the ratio of stored to disipitated energy the lower Q design also stores less energy which is radiated later. I think the better bass comes from less ringiing - the low group delay is just a side effect of the frequency response. Then there's the room which stores a lot more energy than the sub-woofer.... |
| Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt Speaker drivers are minimum phase devices meaning their group delay is a function of their frequency response. Sub woofers with shallower roll-offs have less group delay. For the same F3 point a sealed sub-woofer will have less group delay than a ported design (less than half). Sub woofers with lower bass extension have less group delay. With the same Q a sealed box which is -3dB @ 20 Hz will have half the group delay of one that's -3dB @ 40Hz. This has no relationship to the driver size. A 18" driver with the same frequency response as an 8" driver will share its group delay. I also don't think that low group delay is perceived as fast bass. 1. A paucity of low bass and extra mid/upper bass seem faster. Conversely excess low bass is slow and bloated. 2. A lower Q woofer sounds faster. For the same F3 point a lower Q design does have less group delay. Since Q is half the ratio of stored to disipitated energy the lower Q design also stores less energy which is radiated later. I think the better bass comes from less ringiing - the low group delay is just a side effect of the frequency response. Then there's the room which stores a lot more energy than the sub-woofer.... |
| Originally Posted by SteveCallas How bad is your group delay from your sub that you have to make your sub fire early so that it isn't late in respect to your mains? I believe group delay is measured in milliseconds (ms?), and in most quality subs it doesn't get over 25ms until below 35hz. If you can percieve a delay in the thousandths in information below 35hz, more power to you. |
| Originally Posted by SteveCallas Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the distance setting shouldn't be used at all, I'm just saying if your adjusting it only because you think the group delay on your sub is high, you stand the chance of making it worse by firing too early. I guess it would depend on how small the time increments of delay are in relation to each foot of distance on the receiver or pre/pro. |
