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Discussion Starter #1
I currently have two paradigm monitor 11's, a center 3, and mini monitors. I have the fronts and center set to large with my surrounds on small. My sub is set to plus, all with my pioneer 1326k.

Should they all be set to small? It seems like a waste with these speakers to have them on small. They seem pretty bass-y.

My mcacc sets all the speakers to large when I run it. Thanks!!
 

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I believe that it is best to set all speakers to small and set the crossover on sub all the way up.

 

This way there is a greater range of frequencies between the sub and mains.

 

I know that there is a more technical way to say this, but that is what I have seen recommend on this(and other) board(s) many times before.

 

That is also how I have mine set up.

 

I have a 12" sub, and 10" mains, but I set the mains to small.  The sub does most of the heavy lifting.

 

I will defer to those with more know-how and a better vocabulary.
 

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Sure, it can be a good starting platform, i.e., mains set small. However, it's all dependent on exactly how capable each channel is, and more importantly, how they interact acoustically in their environment as related to the listening position.


Experiment, that's the luxury of having the imaging characteristics tied to the mains, and the heavy lifting of the bottom end more able to move around the room, to achieve optimization of response at the LP.

Here's a nice guide to bass management.

Here's another very, very good combo of info for sub-woofing.


Good luck
 

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^^^ I highly recommend anything written by "BigDaddy" over at Bluray.com.  He knows his stuff.

 

I've lurked over there for a few years, and he really knows subwoofers and Bass.  Has quite a few, has built quite a few, and in general is a wealth of knowledge.

 

I do not know if he posts over here tho...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by underminded999  /t/1422013/small-or-large-speakers#post_22254726


^^^ I highly recommend anything written by "BigDaddy" over at Bluray.com.  He knows his stuff.


I've lurked over there for a few years, and he really knows subwoofers and Bass.  Has quite a few, has built quite a few, and in general is a wealth of knowledge.


I do not know if he posts over here tho...

According to the forum search tool, there is no such user over there.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nismosis  /t/1422013/small-or-large-speakers#post_22254073


I currently have two paradigm monitor 11's, a center 3, and mini monitors. I have the fronts and center set to large with my surrounds on small. My sub is set to plus, all with my pioneer 1326k.

Should they all be set to small? It seems like a waste with these speakers to have them on small. They seem pretty bass-y.

My mcacc sets all the speakers to large when I run it. Thanks!!

I don't see any information about your sub. Did I miss something?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk  /t/1422013/small-or-large-speakers#post_22255141



According to the forum search tool, there is no such user over there.
Sorry, it's "Big Daddy".  I dropped the space.

 

Either way, he's the one who wrote the two articles linked above.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by underminded999  /t/1422013/small-or-large-speakers#post_22255253


Sorry, it's "Big Daddy".  I dropped the space.


Either way, he's the one who wrote the two articles linked above.

That works!
 

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The OP said that he has his sub set to plus...whatever that means.  However, I do assume that he has a sub...but you know what they say about people who AssUMe.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nismosis  /t/1422013/small-or-large-speakers#post_22254073


I currently have two paradigm monitor 11's, a center 3, and mini monitors. I have the fronts and center set to large with my surrounds on small. My sub is set to plus, all with my pioneer 1326k.

Should they all be set to small? It seems like a waste with these speakers to have them on small. They seem pretty bass-y.

My mcacc sets all the speakers to large when I run it. Thanks!!

Go to this thread for info and READ . . . http://www.avsforum.com/t/824554/setting-up-your-home-theater-101 .


With MCACC in speaker setup, set all speakers to small, sub set to 80 hz crossover. and NO plus just subwoofer on.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for all the info people. My sub is an old Kenwood self powered 8" I think. It's not much, but it does work well. My system does sound great as is, but I will some experimenting with the speakers set to small. And yes, my sun is set to "plus" as somebody wasn't sure of. That's the mcacc setting that I believe let's low freq travel to the speakers as well as the sub. At least that's what I gather. One thing I noticed is that when speakers are on large and the sub is not set to plus, there is little or no activity from the sub during iPhone AirPlay streaming. That why I chose to use the plus feature.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nismosis  /t/1422013/small-or-large-speakers#post_22255534


Thanks for all the info people. My sub is an old Kenwood self powered 8" I think. It's not much, but it does work well. My system does sound great as is, but I will some experimenting with the speakers set to small. And yes, my sun is set to "plus" as somebody wasn't sure of. That's the mcacc setting that I believe let's low freq travel to the speakers as well as the sub. At least that's what I gather. One thing I noticed is that when speakers are on large and the sub is not set to plus, there is little or no activity from the sub during iPhone AirPlay streaming. That why I chose to use the plus feature.

The ancient Kenwood 8: subwoofer appears to the weak link. The mains have more surface area on their cones for moving air.
 

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Given your sub, I think it is likely you are using the best setting for now, except that the rears and possible center might still be best set as small. The small Kenwood is best utilized in your system as a secondary source of low frequencies in smoothing the response and seat to seat variation. To that end, playing with placement of your small sub and reviewing frequency response measurements made at each seating position might be benificial though I wouldn't expect miracles.


Were your sub much more capable, I'd recommend setting everything to small and worrying then about the optimum crossover point.
 

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Given your sub, I think it is likely you are using the best setting for now, except that the rears and possible center might still be best set as small. The small Kenwood is best utilized in your system as a secondary source of low frequencies in smoothing the response and seat to seat variation. To that end, playing with placement of your small sub and reviewing frequency response measurements made at each seating position might be benificial though I wouldn't expect miracles.


Were your sub much more capable, I'd recommend setting everything to small and worrying then about the optimum crossover point.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk  /t/1422013/small-or-large-speakers#post_22257358


Read this on small v large:
http://www.audyssey.com/blog/2009/05/small-vs-large

That article is good as far as it goes. I would like to try to come up with reasons why it may or may not be correct.


(1) Situations where the subwoofer may be too incompetent to justifying setting the mains to small:

- The cone area of the sub is the same or less than that of the total of the low range drivers in the mains and does not have an offsetting advantage in linear cone travel.

- The mains actually contain competent subwoofers that compare to or surpass the external sub in the system.

- The subwoofer can only be placed where it and the crossover point that must be used cause the subwoofer to affect imaging.

- The subwoofer has less bass extension than the mains

- The subwoofer has less dynamic range than the mains in the bass range


(2) Situations where setting the mains to small is clearly indicated:

- The subwoofer has the same or more bass extension and or dynamic range than the mains and can be placed and a crossover point can be set that does not affect imaging.

- The mains have adverse effects on their own midbass and midrange when reproducing full range bass (very common).

- The mains are fine with bass in general, but system sound is not so good where they should be placed for the best possible system imaging.


Can you think of other additions to list (1) or (2)?
 

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If you have truly full range speakers, setting them to large and using the sub in LFE+Main (or whatever your prepro calls it) can be beneficial as they act as multiple subs and smooth the response.


Check out Earl Geddes bass guide.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Dodds  /t/1422013/small-or-large-speakers#post_22257459


If you have truly full range speakers, setting them to large and using the sub in LFE+Main (or whatever your prepro calls it) can be beneficial as they act as multiple subs and smooth the response.

Check out Earl Geddes bass guide.

I could accuse you of being mean given what happens if one tries to search for the above! ;-)


Please be more helpful...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nismosis  /t/1422013/small-or-large-speakers#post_22254073


I currently have two paradigm monitor 11's, a center 3, and mini monitors. I have the fronts and center set to large with my surrounds on small. My sub is set to plus, all with my pioneer 1326k.

Should they all be set to small? It seems like a waste with these speakers to have them on small. They seem pretty bass-y.

My mcacc sets all the speakers to large when I run it. Thanks!!
Leave them on large and then position the sub to get the smoothest bass you can. Statistically, you have a much, much greater chance of achieving perceptually better, smoother bass at your seat and others in your listening area, by utilizing more, not less LF sources.

The only exception to this is if the main speaker is inept at producing LF. Not the case in your scenario.


cheers,


AJ
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk  /t/1422013/small-or-large-speakers#post_22257484

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Dodds  /t/1422013/small-or-large-speakers#post_22257459


If you have truly full range speakers, setting them to large and using the sub in LFE+Main (or whatever your prepro calls it) can be beneficial as they act as multiple subs and smooth the response.

Check out Earl Geddes bass guide.

I could accuse you of being mean given what happens if one tries to search for the above! ;-)


Please be more helpful...

Hi Arny,


It used to be that you had to sign up at Earl's forum to get the articles, but DS-21 has put them in his blog with Earl's permission.


It's interesting that Earl recommends not high-passing the mains. But if you look at the data for his Abbey speakers, they are 3 dB down at about 100 Hz.
 
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