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Scott, another immensely informative post, right on the heels of your frame-rate post!! Thanks so much for putting this together.

Observer Metameric Failure ("OMF") is likely to be a significant issue for RGB laser sources until the manufacturers can develop spectrally broadened lasers that emit light over a 20-40nm band. I believe this is what Joe Kane was introducing to many of us in his last interview with you.

Green cones exist as a mix of three subpopulations that results in a trimodal distribution with three sensitivity peaks around 528nm, 534nm and 539nm. In order to ensure adequate stimulation of all three subsets, the green bandwidth would need to span from 528-539nm +/- 5nm to account for variability within each subpopulation for a best case scenario of 523-544nm for a spread of 21nm.

Similarly, red cones also exhibit a trimodal distribution with peaks at 555nm, 563nm and 569nm for a span of 14nm +/- 5nm, which results in a final spectrum width of 24nm covering 551-573nm.

I'm not sure about the blue cones, as my primary reference is from 1979 and the authors had a much smaller sample of blue cones. It seems reasonable to expect a similar distribution pattern.

I suspect (hope) the discrete, multiband RGB laser sources will center their output at these sensitivity peaks, rather than just randomly selecting wavelengths based on what's available. On the other hand, multiband should be better than single narrowband, unless the selected wavelengths fall closer to the nulls rather than the sensitivity peaks. Although the graphic describing the wideband sources showed a bandwidth as narrow as 10nm, they will probably still have significant issues with OMF until the bandwidths exceed 20-25nm.

I have not looked at the bandwidth spread of typical phosphors, so I'm not sure to what extent the Pumped Phosphor laser light engines will suffer from OMF.

I hope Dr. Raulston will step in and correct the data in my post based on more recent human research.

Exciting times, indeed!! :)

Mike

Reference: Visual Pigments of Rods and Cones in a Human Retina, JK Bowmaker and HJA Dartnall, 1979
These times are not now.
 

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Scott. This is off topic but since ou are monitoring this thread, I have a suggestion for another home page poll and/or thread.

I just received my issue of WSR for Oct 2014. In it on page 63 is a full page ad by DTS that says only the following "Sound changes the way we see. All you have to do is listen." That's the ad. It would be interesting to get the AV Science Forum members take on these two statements.
 

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Scott:

Thank you, great article. I have a few questions regarding Blue Laser Pumped Phosphorus.

1)I believe current lumen output is 12,000 not the 5,000 quoted for BLPP. The DPI Insight 4K is spec'd at this number
2)Isn't Speckle issue limited to the RGB Laser technology and not the Blue Laser Pumped Phosphorus?
3)Is the observer metameric failure limited to RGB laser technology vs Blue Laser Pumped Phosphurus?
4)I am assuming Rec2020 can be achieved easily by both laser technologies?

Thank you again

Lon
Hi Lon. In BPP or BLPP the only laser light hitting the screen is from the blue laser. While speckle would be generated by any color laser light, because we are talking about blue laser light it and its contribution to other colors is essentially not noticeable by the viewer.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Scott What is your opinion in this

Osram Creates a Milestone with Laser Diodes for Projectors

For the first time there is a compact laser multi-chip package. Osram Opto Semiconductors can pack up to 20 blue laser chips in the new PLPM4 450 module

professional laser projectors can achieve a brightness level of more than 2000 lumen with only one component




Lower system costs for laser projectors

Volume production of the PLPM4 450 will start at the end of 2014

http://www.ledinside.com/products/2014/6/osram_creates_a_milestone_with_laser_diodes_for_projectors
This is one type of laser-diode component used in laser projectors known as a multiple emitter, and it seems quite promising.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Another advantage of a laser light source is the ability to achieve maximum brightness nearly instantaneously, where a lamp takes time to ramp up. This means that a bright white or colored object can move rapidly across a dark background while maintaining the proper level of brightness, where the same image projected, using a lamp, would appear dimmer even when the peak brightness is well within the capabilities of a lamp.

With regards to the spectral bandwidth of each primary, is it a foregone conclusion that you must sacrifice purity (leading to a narrower color gamut) in order to reduce OMF? For example, there are supposedly some experimental laser projectors that have been made which can reproduce 98% of the BT. 2020 color gamut using single wave length primaries. By going with the multi-band or spectrally broadened lasers can we still potentially hit 100% of rec 2020 or are we going to have to settle for a slightly smaller color gamut?
By definition, BT.2020 uses single-wavelength primaries, so I'm not sure how it could be achieved with multiband or spectrally broadened lasers. This is one reason some industry experts, including Joe Kane, advocate for the P3 gamut over BT.2020 when it comes to UHD. I hope to have Bill Beck as a guest on Home Theater Geeks, and if I do, I'll be sure to ask this question.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Scott:

Thank you, great article. I have a few questions regarding Blue Laser Pumped Phosphorus.

1)I believe current lumen output is 12,000 not the 5,000 quoted for BLPP. The DPI Insight 4K is spec'd at this number
2)Isn't Speckle issue limited to the RGB Laser technology and not the Blue Laser Pumped Phosphorus?
3)Is the observer metameric failure limited to RGB laser technology vs Blue Laser Pumped Phosphurus?
4)I am assuming Rec2020 can be achieved easily by both laser technologies?

Thank you again

Lon
1. You're right, the DPI Insight 4K laser is spec'd at 12,000 lumens. I got the 6000-lumen figure from Bill Beck's presentation, and I forgot about the DPI.
2. I believe that speckle is limited to RGB projectors and not a problem with BPP models, because the red and green primaries in BPP projectors are wideband and incoherent. The blue primary comes directly from a laser, so it's narrowband and coherent, but blue laser light suffers the least from speckle.
3. I believe you are correct here as well, for the same reasons as in point 2.
4. I don't think that BT.2020 can be achieved using BPP technology, because the red and green primaries are wideband. Even the DPI Insight 4K Laser shown at CEDIA "barely exceeds BT.709" according to the DPI reps I spoke with.
 

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Does that mean HDR mastered films with 20.20 color might look better on conventional projectors? Or could they even handle it? Based on the CEDIA wrap up episode I gather that HDR graded film content is a ways away anyhow right?

Two other questions... so basically laser is brighter... that means for 3D they might provide a superior image? Are you aware of any theater chains that might reliably install laser projectors in their premium theaters?

I saw GOTG in IMAX 3D... that looked pretty good to me in comparison to "the box trolls" 3D in a standard theater which looked waaaaay darker.
I don't think that conventional (lamp-based) projectors can reproduce BT.2020, and I have serious doubts that they can reproduce HDR content as well. Christie is experimenting with a dual light engine for HDR projection, but I need to research that more before I understand it. And you're right, HDR-graded content is not imminent; this is another chicken-and-egg problem—the studios don't want to grade content for HDR until there is an installed base of HDR displays, and display makers don't want to bring them to market until there is content to show on them. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I believe that lasers can produce a superior 3D image, in large part because they are brighter. I've heard that Imax is about to or in the process of installing dual laser projectors in some of its theaters; I don't know of any others.

I'm not surprised that Imax 3D looked better than 3D in a standard theater; Imax uses dual projectors for 3D, so it's twice as bright as a single-projector presentation.
 

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...And you're right, HDR-graded content is not imminent; this is another chicken-and-egg problem—the studios don't want to grade content for HDR until there is an installed base of HDR displays, and display makers don't want to bring them to market until there is content to show on them. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Some of the pieces of the puzzle have already started to come together. We have video cameras that can capture HDR. We have color grading software that can handle the higher bit depth required. We have a proposed method of transferring HDR information from source to display that is supposedly backwards compatible (e.g. Dolby Vision), but no consumer displays that actually take advantage of it, yet. We have both laser projectors and flat panel displays with light output capabilities that could qualify as HDR-capable, including some that utilize their own proprietary dynamic range expansion algorithms (e.g. Sony's X-tended Dynamic Range Pro). And, we have rumors of full 10 bit support for the upcoming UHD/4K Blu-Ray standard as well as the rough UHD-1 Phase 2 spec. I suspect that the next steps are...

1) Broader adoption of laser projection in commercial cinemas. Once that hits critical mass...
2) A director such as James Cameron or Peter Jackson will decide to make their next box office hit utilizing HDR (like they have done/are doing for 3D and HFR)
3) This will start the HDR movement for the studios with regards to commercial cinema releases and push the remaining theaters to upgrade their projectors.
4) With cinematic HDR content already in existence, the studios and consumer electronic industry will see this as the next feature to use as a selling point to get consumers to upgrade their home theater equipment and movie collection again. I think this is already in their plans.
5) Displays, playback devices, and receivers that support actual HDR content will become available with a handful of titles being released to the home in HDR at the same time.
6) Assuming sales of HDR capable equipment are sufficient, more and more HDR content will be released.

My guess is that we'll get WCG and HDR as a combined package, since there is so much overlap in the technology required to make them a reality. I think that #2 is the key to the whole thing. Once that happens, the rest will occur over the course of 2 years.
 

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1. You're right, the DPI Insight 4K laser is spec'd at 12,000 lumens. I got the 6000-lumen figure from Bill Beck's presentation, and I forgot about the DPI.
2. I believe that speckle is limited to RGB projectors and not a problem with BPP models, because the red and green primaries in BPP projectors are wideband and incoherent. The blue primary comes directly from a laser, so it's narrowband and coherent, but blue laser light suffers the least from speckle.
3. I believe you are correct here as well, for the same reasons as in point 2.
4. I don't think that BT.2020 can be achieved using BPP technology, because the red and green primaries are wideband. Even the DPI Insight 4K Laser shown at CEDIA "barely exceeds BT.709" according to the DPI reps I spoke with.
A minor technical point of no real consequence, from reports I have read I think DPI said that the projector came very close to achieving 2020 and only missed because the blue laser was not quite saturated enough though very close to what was needed.
 

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I don't think that conventional (lamp-based) projectors can reproduce BT.2020, and I have serious doubts that they can reproduce HDR content as well. Christie is experimenting with a dual light engine for HDR projection, but I need to research that more before I understand it. And you're right, HDR-graded content is not imminent; this is another chicken-and-egg problem—the studios don't want to grade content for HDR until there is an installed base of HDR displays, and display makers don't want to bring them to market until there is content to show on them. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I believe that lasers can produce a superior 3D image, in large part because they are brighter. I've heard that Imax is about to or in the process of installing dual laser projectors in some of its theaters; I don't know of any others.

I'm not surprised that Imax 3D looked better than 3D in a standard theater; Imax uses dual projectors for 3D, so it's twice as bright as a single-projector presentation.
TY for the info, well now I know to see 3D films in IMAX from now on if I can :)

One quick unrelated question (my apologies if this is a derail)... in one of the home theater geeks episodes I recall someone brought up 8k infrastructure being installed (in Japan I think? I think you questioned why and in response whoever was talking about it had assumed it might be to save on upgrade costs in the long term). Do you remember which episode that might have been?
 

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A minor technical point of no real consequence, from reports I have read I think DPI said that the projector came very close to achieving 2020 and only missed because the blue laser was not quite saturated enough though very close to what was needed.
Mark:

You sure this wasn't the Insight4K LED version, not the laser Insight 4K?
 

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Ron Jones' blog on projector central for day 2 of Cedia which was day 1 of the Expo, published a color chart from DP! which depicts in pertinent part the color triangle for 2020 and the color triangle for the LED projector. The primary points for the LED exceed rec 2020 requirements for Reg but do not enable full 2020 reproduction for Green and Blue. The deficiencies are minor but to me the diagram indicates the the LED projector can't quite replicate full 2020. I don;t kn ow what the guys on the floor said but they would seem to be in error based on the DP! chart. At this point it all meaningless because there are no 2020 coded sources and none will exist any time soon. Even if 2020 coded becomes available, the deficiencies are truly minor. Something tells me Scott won't respond since he hasn't responded to any of my posts. But that won't stop me from posting because he might still benefit as well as others and I might benefit if others respond even though Scott apparently won't.
 

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Very good article and even though I am an ophthalmologist and have studied the retina and intricacies of color vision perception I still can't understand how lasers can have much of a future in video projection since they emit a narrow spectrum usually a single wavelength of light. Yet at the same time there are millions of different colors of different wavelengths or hues. How can lasers reproduce each of these individual colors? I still don't understand how that is possible even though I have used a lot of lasers in my career in treatment of retinal diseases and after cataracts, etc.
I hope my asking this question doesn't reveal the extent of my ignorance.
Larry, in a red/blue/green primary laser commercial projector(known as 3P, 6P is dual projectors), these separate colors are pointed at a prism and combined into a white light to mimic the light emitted by a xenon arc light bulb with a color temperature of 6000 degrees Kelvin, that is near natural daylight. This white light beam is then projected unto another prism that separates it back into a red/blue/green, or RGB, that is directed to it's corresponding DLP DMD chip(3-Chip) or Sony LCoS panels, the light from the DMD's is reflected(aimed for LCoS as the panels are positioned between the light source and the lens aperture) towards the lens aperture, creating the image you see on the screen. As you probably guessed, spectrum and wavelength is a non issue as the three primary laser emitters, red/green/blue, are used to produce a pure white light. The use of 3 lasers to produce a white light has confused and dumbfounded many in the industry, and more outside the presentation industry. It's a simple process actually. Before laser's there was either short or long arc xenon bulbs that produced a perfect color temperature of 6k in around 97.2 percent of all commercial projectors on the market place. Problem is, those xenon bulbs have a very short life overall, and a pathetic short life and consume from 5,000 to 10,000 watts of power in a commercial application, not to mention they get dangerously hot, emit high levels of infrared radiation, are under high pressure, require special handling and safety clothing, face shield when changing bulbs and special shipping/storage containers, and contains enough xenon gas to be lethal if the quartz bulb should rupture and you're closer than 5 meters to it. It would have been dumb to throw all that prism knowledge away with the xenon arc bulbs, not to mention decades of lens design and fine tuning that is an art form unto itself. The solution was to use what has worked flawlessly, was field tried and proven in millions of cinemas worldwide, using prisms to split a white light into red/blue/green light and project it, has been done since the dawn of digital projection, it's very reliable, and spare parts and resources support it, and your average(serious) projectionist fully understands it. Laser projectors do use slightly more "wall plug" electricity than xenon bulbs, lasers however, have a 30-50,000 hour life compared to the xenon arc bulbs 400-800 hour lamp life. The laser projector owner will see a slightly higher electric bill over a xenon arc bulb projector owner, but the overall cost of ownership for the life span of the laser projector will be %70 percent lower than the life span on the xenon lamp projector.

There is testing underway that will eliminate the prisms and use the true color of the laser(s), there is also testing going on to enclose 6 lasers into one housing, thereby doing away with having to use dual projectors. There is also on going research and development going on that will have a single laser light farm powering up to 30 different cinema screens, via fiber optics. The use of lasers in projection has reached further and advanced faster than i predicted it ever would. All U.S. FDA, FCC hurdles have been cleared and laser projection has been green lighted for production. As it stands right now, the orders for commercial laser projectors has around a 6 to 9 month backlog, not counting the availability of those, like me, who build or upgrade cinemas. For my area, my plate is full.
 

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Ron Jones' blog on projector central for day 2 of Cedia which was day 1 of the Expo, published a color chart from DP! which depicts in pertinent part the color triangle for 2020 and the color triangle for the LED projector. The primary points for the LED exceed rec 2020 requirements for Reg but do not enable full 2020 reproduction for Green and Blue. The deficiencies are minor but to me the diagram indicates the the LED projector can't quite replicate full 2020. I don;t know what the guys on the floor said but they would seem to be in error based on the DP! chart. At this point it all meaningless because there are no 2020 coded sources and none will exist any time soon. Even if 2020 coded becomes available, the deficiencies are truly minor. Something tells me Scott won't respond since he hasn't responded to any of my posts. But that won't stop me from posting because he might still benefit as well as others and I might benefit if others respond even though Scott apparently won't.
Mark, from what i understand from the Christie, Barco, NEC and Sony guys and girls, is that the problem with LED's is that no two produce the same color spec. That is a very big issue for large venue/cinema projection, and the prime reason they abandoned LED's and went with laser light sources. Barco and NEC has had great success with their smaller 1 to 5,500 lumen LED projector's, there respected design and engineering teams both came to the conclusion that was the roof for LED light output that could be projected into any color compliance guidelines.

Rec.2020 is only used for UHD/4K on 16.9 display monitors. There is nothing for UHD/4K projection, that i know of. Cinema 1.85:1 and 2.39:1 falls squarely under DCI in either 2K/4K projection. Comparing rec.2020 to DCI, is like comparing apples to oranges, yes it deeply irritates me when the two are compared, or any Rec. to DCI specs. Yes, LED's fail at reaching any of those specs outlined by rec.2020 or DCI. I can't remember the issue, SMPTE did a review on this last year or the year before, and the prime failure was the blue LED.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
So are silver screens still required for passive 3D with Laser projection?
Not with 6P; that uses color-separation glasses with slightly different wavelengths of red, green, and blue for each eye, like the Dolby 3D system, so no polarization and no need for a silver screen. I don't know of any laser projectors that use polarization for 3D.
 

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So are silver screens still required for passive 3D with Laser projection?
Christie Digital recommends a low gain white screen, Dolby® Laboratories’ 3D system, dual projector heads when using laser projection for 3D presentation. This recommendation allows for a true 14 FL 3D screen brightness and eliminates any center hot spots, common to 3D on a silver screen.

This is a buyer/installer warning from Christie Digital,

Why two heads are
better than one

As an explicit warning, under no circumstances
should an exhibitor consider a single-head
6P sequential 3D system. Not only does this
type of system exhibit “flashing” artifacts on
screen, it also suffers from extremely inefficient
use of the lasers for color-separation-based 3D
(versus a dual-head system) and suboptimal
performance for all other 2D and 3D system
configurations (versus 3P). A buyer can easily be
misled. For example, if a 6P laser projection is
offered featuring 60,000 lumens of light output,
then that specification is very likely the 2D light
output only; the actual 3D light output would
be less than 30,000 lumens after accounting for
the alternate flashing or shuttering of each set
of laser primary colors. Clearly, in this case, the
technology would not be addressing the market
need for brighter 3D nor would it be offering
a compelling 2D solution, but merely taking
advantage of the current market hype for 6P
laser projection.
 

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Not with 6P; that uses color-separation glasses with slightly different wavelengths of red, green, and blue for each eye, like the Dolby 3D system, so no polarization and no need for a silver screen. I don't know of any laser projectors that use polarization for 3D.
Thank ya Scott.

Christie Digital recommends a low gain white screen, Dolby® Laboratories’ 3D system, dual projector heads when using laser projection for 3D presentation. This recommendation allows for a true 14 FL 3D screen brightness and eliminates any center hot spots, common to 3D on a silver screen.

This is a buyer/installer warning from Christie Digital,

Why two heads are
better than one

As an explicit warning, under no circumstances
should an exhibitor consider a single-head
6P sequential 3D system. Not only does this
type of system exhibit “flashing” artifacts on
screen, it also suffers from extremely inefficient
use of the lasers for color-separation-based 3D
(versus a dual-head system) and suboptimal
performance for all other 2D and 3D system
configurations (versus 3P). A buyer can easily be
misled. For example, if a 6P laser projection is
offered featuring 60,000 lumens of light output,
then that specification is very likely the 2D light
output only; the actual 3D light output would
be less than 30,000 lumens after accounting for
the alternate flashing or shuttering of each set
of laser primary colors. Clearly, in this case, the
technology would not be addressing the market
need for brighter 3D nor would it be offering
a compelling 2D solution, but merely taking
advantage of the current market hype for 6P
laser projection.
Silver screens are also not required for Dolby 3D with current DCI 3-Chip DLP projecters correct?
 

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Rec. 2020 Color Space
Rec. 2020 is an ITU Recommendation, first introduced in 2012, that sets out the standards for UHDTV (UHD 4K and UHD 8K). Included in these standards is the Rec. 2020 Color Space which is an RGB color space that has a color gamut that is wider than almost all other RGB color spaces. There is no displays available capable of displaying the entire Rec. 2020 color space. 9 wish i had a dollar for all the people i had to tell this to as well)
The table below compares the native color gamut of the Rec. 2020 Color Space to the color gamuts of other RGB color spaces.
Color Space Coverage
Rec. 709 / sRGB 100%
NTSC 1953 99.98%
Adobe RGB 100%
DCI P3 99.98%
Rec. 2020 100%
Pointers Gamut 99.8%
Visible Spectrum 57.3%
Rec. 2020 Resolution
The standard defines two resolutions, both using square(You got dot pixels, OLED? Your out of the 2020 game! Samsung!) pixels and a 16:9 aspect ration(wish i had two dollars for all the people i had to correct on this one!!!!), 3840x2160 (4K UHD) and 7680x4320 (8K UHD).
Rec. 2020 Frame rate
The standard defines nine progressive-scan frame rates: 23.976p, 24p, 25p, 29.97p, 30p. 50p, 59.94p, 60p, 120p.
Progressive Segmented Frames (like 23.976PsF) and Interlaced (like 60i) frame rates are not permitted.
Rec. 2020 Color Depth
The standard defines two color depths, 10 bits per color and 12 bits per color.
NHK is standardizing on 12 bits per color for their 8K UHD broadcast implementation.
Rec. 2020 Chroma Subsampling
The standard supports 4:2:0, 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 Y'CbCr and RGB chroma subsampling formats.

Rec. 709 Color Space
Rec. 709 is an ITU Recommendation, first introduced in 1990, that sets out the standards for HDTV. Included in these standards is the Rec. 709 Color Space which is an RGB color space that is identical to the sRGB color space. All HDTVs should be able to 100% of the Rec. 709 color space.

Color Space Coverage
Rec. 709 / sRGB 100%
NTSC 1953 78.4%
Adobe RGB 85.7%
DCI P3 79.6%
Rec. 2020 58.0%
Pointers Gamut 70.2%
Visible Spectrum 33.3%

sRGB Color Space
The sRGB Color Space is an RGB color space that was introduced in 1996 by Microsoft and HP. The color space features a color gamut that is identical to Rec. 709. Most consumer computer monitors are able to display 100% of the sRGB color space.
The table below compares the native color gamut of the sRGB Color Space to the color gamuts of other RGB color spaces.
Color Space Coverage
Rec. 709 / sRGB 100%
NTSC 1953 78.4%
Adobe RGB 85.7%
DCI P3 79.6%
Rec. 2020 58.0%
Pointers Gamut 70.2%
Visible Spectrum 33.3%


NTSC (1953) Color Space
The NTSC (1953) Color Space is an RGB color space that was introduced in 1953 by the FCC. The color space features a color gamut that is much wider than sRGB. While this color space is not used in modern displays, it is commonly used to compare and specify color gamut coverage.
The table below compares the native color gamut of the NTSC (1953) Color Space to the color gamuts of other RGB color spaces.
Color Space Coverage
Rec. 709 / sRGB 89.97%
NTSC 1953 100%
Adobe RGB 91.2%
DCI P3 82.2%
Rec. 2020 66.5%
Pointers Gamut 79.4%
Visible Spectrum 38.1%

Adobe RGB Color Space
The Adobe RGB Color Space is an RGB color space that was introduced in 1998 by Adobe. The color space features a color gamut that is much wider than sRGB and was designed to include most of the colors available on CMYK printers. Most professional computer monitors are able to display 100% or close to 100% of the Adobe RGB color space.
The table below compares the native color gamut of the Adobe RGB Color Space to the color gamuts of other RGB color spaces.
Color Space Coverage
Rec. 709 / sRGB 100%
NTSC 1953 92.8%
Adobe RGB 100%
DCI P3 86.98%
Rec. 2020 67.7%
Pointers Gamut 80.3%
Visible Spectrum 38.8%

DCI P3 Color Space
The DCI P3 Color Space is an RGB color space that was introduced in 2007 by the SMPTE:))). The color space features a color gamut that is much wider than sRGB. All Digital Cinema Projectors are capable of displaying the DCI P3 color space in its entirety. As of 2013 there is only one commercially available monitor capable of displaying the DCI P3 color gamut, the Dolby Professional Reference Monitor PRM-4200
The table below compares the native color gamut of the DCI P3 Color Space to the color gamuts of other RGB color spaces.
Color Space Coverage
Rec. 709 / sRGB 100%
NTSC 1953 90.1%
Adobe RGB 93.6%
DCI P3 100%
Rec. 2020 72.9%
Pointers Gamut 85.5%
Visible Spectrum 41.8%

I hope this clears up some very muddy water around here on what is what as far as The Society of Motion Picture AND Television Engineers(SMPTE) has defined. Now back to laser projectors!!!

Typical spectral response of the human eye.
 

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