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So confused...

1355 Views 27 Replies 9 Participants Last post by Deathwish238, Oct 9, 2006

guitarlp

Discussion Starter · Oct 4, 2006

Since I've found this forum I've been researching so much that I think I'm going crazy. First I researched TV's... then DVD players... then AVR's... speakers... cables... wires... and now I've moved on to my final (I hope) part of research for now... and that's calibration.

I've read though so many threads but I'm still a bit confused about what I'll need to properly calibrate the screen on my own. I almost feel like paying a pro to do it but at the same time I want to know what I'm doing and be able to do this with my future tv's and help out friends and family when they want their tv's calibrated.

So after all my reading, it seems like I'll need to purchase 3 things to successfully calibrate my tv.

SpyderTV - $199

CalMAN - $100

GetGray - $25

Ouch... $349... but I guess that's the price you pay... either to have a professional do it or do it myself and again whenever I want.

So... that's all I need right?

This is what I'm assuming I need to do:

I'll get my TV and before calibrating I'll lower the brightness and contrast for the first 200 hours to break everything in. Then, I'll pop in the GetGray DVD and adjust the brightness and contrast to optimal levels. After that's adjusted, I'll put in the SpyderTV DVD and run through all of it's calibration. Next, GetGray again to make sure brightness and contrast are optimal. Lastly I'll run CalMAN using the "eye" or whatever it's called from the SpyderTV.

That should do it right? Am I missing something or not understanding something clearly? There's so much to read on this subject... ahhhhhhhhh

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Lee Bailey

· #2 · Oct 4, 2006

While there is nothing wrong with going the route above,you could get the SpyderTVPRO. It will simplify the calibration for you. Amazon currently has it for $450, free shipping. The one thing you'll need to have to calibrate most TVs will be to have access to the service menu to adjust the cuts and gains for each color. Otherwise, all SpyderTVPRO can do for you is use whatever settings are available under the normal user menu.

If you wanted to really get into the calibration nuts and bolts, you could always get the CALMAN and GetGrey DVD later.

Depending on where you live, you could probably have your TV calibrated for $500 or less.

derekjsmith

· #3 · Oct 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitarlp
SpyderTV - $199

CalMAN - $100

GetGray - $25

Ouch... $349... but I guess that's the price you pay... either to have a professional do it or do it myself and again whenever I want.

So... that's all I need right?

You only need the Spyder2 meter from the Spyder2Express package and it can be found for $69

Spyder2 Meter from the Express package - $69

CalMAN - $100

GetGray - $25

Only $194

However I would get the GetGray cal disk first and make sure you are comfortable using it to set you contrast, Brightness, Color and Tint. If you are then you to decide if you are willing to spent a little more time in learning how to perform grayscale and gamma. Again this is assuming you can adjust each of the colors "RGB" cuts and gains on you display. A lot of newer sets have them in the advanced user menus, most older system only had them in the service menu. I would research this first. But in any case just setting the contrast, etc.. will get you a better picture then from the factory. Also if you have a THX DVD they have a tuneup section you can look at now, to get an idea of what setting contrast and etc... but most of the THX DVD's have patterns with incorrect levels, it will still give you an idea of what you are looking at.

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guitarlp

Discussion Starter · #4 · Oct 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by derekjsmith
You only need the Spyder2 meter from the Spyder2Express package and it can be found for $69

Spyder2 Meter from the Express package - $69

CalMAN - $100

GetGray - $25

Only $194

However I would get the GetGray cal disk first and make sure you are comfortable using it to set you contrast, Brightness, Color and Tint. If you are then you to decide if you are willing to spent a little more time in learning how to perform grayscale and gamma. Again this is assuming you can adjust each of the colors "RGB" cuts and gains on you display. A lot of newer sets have them in the advanced user menus, most older system only had them in the service menu. I would research this first. But in any case just setting the contrast, etc.. will get you a better picture then from the factory. Also if you have a THX DVD they have a tuneup section you can look at now, to get an idea of what setting contrast and etc... but most of the THX DVD's have patterns with incorrect levels, it will still give you an idea of what you are looking at.

Thanks for the reply. I just ordered the GetGray DVD so I'll definitly be using that once the tv has been broken in. My TV (haven't gotten it yet... but ordered a few days ago) is the Panny 50PH9UK. I beleive this has the uder menu options I need since it's supposed to have even more display settings then the consumer conterpart.

So the Meter and CalMAN is all I need then (on top of GetGrey) to properly calibrate my tv? The post above you recommends the SpyderTV Pro... but then we're talking $450 (more then I wanted to spend).

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guitarlp

Discussion Starter · #5 · Oct 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Bailey
While there is nothing wrong with going the route above,you could get the SpyderTVPRO. It will simplify the calibration for you. Amazon currently has it for $450, free shipping. The one thing you'll need to have to calibrate most TVs will be to have access to the service menu to adjust the cuts and gains for each color. Otherwise, all SpyderTVPRO can do for you is use whatever settings are available under the normal user menu.

If you wanted to really get into the calibration nuts and bolts, you could always get the CALMAN and GetGrey DVD later.

Depending on where you live, you could probably have your TV calibrated for $500 or less.

Thank you for the reply.

That's starting to get a little expensive for me. I thought $300 was a bit much... and $450, although a deal for what it is, is still expensive.

Can I do as the post below says and just get the SpyderTV receiver and CalMAN? Will this do all the same things as the SpyderTV Pro? From my understanding the SpyderTV Pro is an all in one easy to use solution. Maybe CalMAN will be too hard for me to use in the end... I dunno... time to read CalMAN's manuals if they have them.

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derekjsmith

· #6 · Oct 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitarlp
Thanks for the reply. I just ordered the GetGray DVD so I'll definitly be using that once the tv has been broken in. My TV (haven't gotten it yet... but ordered a few days ago) is the Panny 50PH9UK. I beleive this has the uder menu options I need since it's supposed to have even more display settings then the consumer conterpart.

So the Meter and CalMAN is all I need then (on top of GetGrey) to properly calibrate my tv? The post above you recommends the SpyderTV Pro... but then we're talking $450 (more then I wanted to spend).

No need to wait for the TV to the broken in. When you get the GetGray disk run the contrast, brightness, color, tint calibration then after some 200 hours do it again.

I think you got my post mixed with another about the SpyderTV Pro. I recommend the Spyder2Express just for it's Spyder2 meter.

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Bear5k

· #7 · Oct 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitarlp
time to read CalMAN's manuals if they have them.

Alright, let's nip this in the bud.

We DO have a manual. It is a little dated, but at more than 40 pages, it is more accessible and comprehensive than anything else you are going to find. Use it to get the necessary background on calibration to understand what you are trying to accomplish first.

You can find a relevant subset of the manual here:
http://www.calman.tv/html/is_it_for_you.html

Then, register for our forums to read up on the incremental functionality we added in the v2 release. It is a lot, but the core documentation in the forum is there, and it is more complete our competitors. Yes, I do need to go through the step of adding pictures and screen captures to walk users through the functionality more completely than what is available right now, but that is something I want to do to make life easier on our users. It is not something that I feel competitive pressure to do (if someone can point me to where a competitor has better documentation, I'd like to see it since I have all but one of the packages I consider us to compete against).

Bill

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guitarlp

Discussion Starter · #8 · Oct 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by derekjsmith
No need to wait for the TV to the broken in. When you get the GetGray disk run the contrast, brightness, color, tint calibration then after some 200 hours do it again.

I think you got my post mixed with another about the SpyderTV Pro. I recommend the Spyder2Express just for it's Spyder2 meter.

Maybe my reply was a little confusing.

I know you recommended just the meter and CalMAN... but will this, along with GetGrey, do all the calibrating I need for my display? Does the Spyder software do anything CalMAN doesn't?

derekjsmith

· #9 · Oct 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitarlp
Maybe my reply was a little confusing.

I know you recommended just the meter and CalMAN... but will this, along with GetGrey, do all the calibrating I need for my display? Does the Spyder software do anything CalMAN doesn't?

The SpyderTV will help you with contrast, brightness, color and tint, which you can do with the GetGray disk on it's own. The SpyderTV Pro also adds the ability to do a 2 point grayscale "contrast and brightness" on RGB.

CalMAN also has a 2 point Wizard to help you with RGB contrast and brightness but we also give you all of the data and charts for a full 11 point grayscale, gamma, RGB level tracking, Delta E, Color Balance, CIE Chromaticity, ANSI Contrast and Brightness Uniformity. So you see we provide all of the basics a user could need with the 2 point wizard but we also provide all of the charts and data an enthusiast would want. And by no means is CalMAN a static product, we are working on version 2.1 right now to add advanced features like: support for 5 different meters including the i1 Pro, direct control and support for 5 different pattern generators including the AccuPel and always better documentation, with lots more to come. Check out our forums and ask us questions, we can go into a lot more detail without taking up AVS's bandwidth.

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JoeFigueiredo

· #10 · Oct 4, 2006

So does the /support flag only pop up the window when you are using it with Calman? When I enable it and launch the SpyderTV software it does not come up with the XYZ window.

Also, how does one interpolate the Calman readings to what specifically needs to be changed and to what inside the grayscale adjustments in the TV's service menu?

derekjsmith

· #11 · Oct 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeFigueiredo
So does the /support flag only pop up the window when you are using it with Calman? When I enable it and launch the SpyderTV software it does not come up with the XYZ window.

Also, how does one interpolate the Calman readings to what specifically needs to be changed and to what inside the grayscale adjustments in the TV's service menu?

CalMAN reads the data directly from the Spyder2 meter and populates them into the data fields, so no need to run the SpyderTV in /support mode. We only need the Spyder2 drivers installed.

The CalMAN wizard will help in telling you what and how much needs to be changes for the grayscale.

joemama127

· #12 · Oct 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by derekjsmith
You only need the Spyder2 meter from the Spyder2Express package and it can be found for $69

Spyder2 Meter from the Express package - $69

CalMAN - $100

GetGray - $25

Only $194

I agree that is the most economical solution but there is one problem...how to attach the colorimeter to the tv? The SpyderTV comes with a suction cup attachment which has one cup with a release tab...the colorimeter in the Express package doesn't have this because it is designed for monitors that can be tilted back for the device to lay flat. The colorimeter itself does have 3 small suction cups built on but to use them (not a good idea on plasma/lcd because there are no release tabs) you have to remove the plasma/lcd filter. The only way I can think to do it is to hang the colorimeter with the counterweight on the back and then use your fingers to lightly press it flat on the screen every time a reading is taken. That would make for a very looooong and tedious calibration.

edit- Colorvision will NOT sell the suction cup attachment separately (I tried)...they know that people who are smart enough to buy and use one of these things are also smart enough to figure out the hardware is the same on all versions.

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Bear5k

· #13 · Oct 5, 2006

You can always superglue a hex nut onto the back of the meter to connect it to a tripod, but for direct-view and RPTVs, you just need to adjust the counterweight to get it to lay flat.

Bill

Lee Bailey

· #14 · Oct 5, 2006

The way I set my Spyder2 unit up for my CRT RTPV is as follows:

Get a light-weight camera Tripod(plastic). Take the suction cup attachment and stick the suction cup directly onto the center of the rear of the Spyder2 pod. Now, you can use the thread mount insert on the suction cup attachment and mount the pod to the tripod. I then use only 2 legs extended on the tripod, and lean it onto the screen with the least pressure possible, adjusting the height to get it onto the center of the screen. It works just fine this way.

Guitarlp, I can tell you personally that you'll get all the help you need from Bill and Derek over at the CALMAN forum. They provide very fast feedback to your questions. There are also other CALMAN users there to assist as well. It is an excellent tool. You do need Microsoft Excel to run it on your PC, as well as some patience. Start by just using the tool and not adjusting anything to get a sense of the steps of measurements. You should read Bill's guide as well. Lots of information in it.

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JoeFigueiredo

· #15 · Oct 5, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by derekjsmith
CalMAN reads the data directly from the Spyder2 meter and populates them into the data fields, so no need to run the SpyderTV in /support mode. We only need the Spyder2 drivers installed.

The CalMAN wizard will help in telling you what and how much needs to be changes for the grayscale.

So essentially, if I have a SpyderTV with the Spyder2 drivers installed and use CalMAN I should be able to calibrate grayscale and picture settings completely, without the need for GetGray?

JoeFigueiredo

· #16 · Oct 5, 2006

Also, where do I download the Spyder2 drivers from? On the colorvision website I only see drivers under the monitor calibration area.

derekjsmith

· #17 · Oct 5, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeFigueiredo
So essentially, if I have a SpyderTV with the Spyder2 drivers installed and use CalMAN I should be able to calibrate grayscale and picture settings completely, without the need for GetGray?

You still need GetGray for a source. In order to perform a grayscale you need source patterns, they can be from a pattern generator or a DVD with a cal disk like GetGray. The Spyder2 meter measures the RGB levels in XYZ for each of the 0-100 grayscale patterns and then CalMAN presents the data in charts and wizard to make suggestions to correct any errors.

derekjsmith

· #18 · Oct 5, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeFigueiredo
Also, where do I download the Spyder2 drivers from? On the colorvision website I only see drivers under the monitor calibration area.

Just by installing any of the Colorvision S2 products the drivers and dll will be installed for CalMAN to use.

JoeFigueiredo

· #19 · Oct 5, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by derekjsmith
Just by installing any of the Colorvision S2 products the drivers and dll will be installed for CalMAN to use.

But I have the SpyderTV, is this an S2 product?

JoeFigueiredo

· #20 · Oct 5, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by derekjsmith
You still need GetGray for a source. In order to perform a grayscale you need source patterns, they can be from a pattern generator or a DVD with a cal disk like GetGray. The Spyder2 meter measures the RGB levels in XYZ for each of the 0-100 grayscale patterns and then CalMAN presents the data in charts and wizard to make suggestions to correct any errors.

I have DVE, and a Sony 42WE610 RPLCD TV. Is this adequate for a cal disk, or do I really need GetGray?

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