AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,108 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay so right now I just have a cheap digital projector (Davis 450)--however I have been looking into a CRT projector. I do however only want to get a projector locally. Recently I came across a VPH-1001q at a local tv repair shop, I asked how much and the woman replied "Last I heard $450" so I figure I can get the price down in mid/upper 300s. I know that this projector would in all odds not replace my existing digital projector, but I am woundering just how good such a projector would look, and its relative worth. (I paid $300 for my 20" TV, A samsung Dynaflat with component video and anamorphic squeeze).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,674 Posts
I think progressive digital looks piles better than interlaced video at any size approaching home theater scale.


Save your money and find something which will accept at least 480p.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,034 Posts
I won't pay $50 for an interlaced crt... Some would, but no I would not at all reccomend you do it. Start at an electrohome ecp (not 2000) or up.


You can actually find them close to the price you speak of if you watch out for them.


It would be ok for free...


Troy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
538 Posts
I have both types of CRT projectors. PJ one is an old Sony VPH-722 (480i). PJ two is a Barco BG800 which is capable of progressive (480P, 540P,720P, etc.)scan displays.


Obviously the Barco looks better than the Sony by virtue of higher scan rates and no-interlacing of the picture.


However, When I look at my brothers LCD projector which does progressive scan I find myself preferring the "old" Sony which has a smoother picture.


That's how I look at it. For your self I would suggest seeing if the TV shop would be willing to hook up the Sony and throw a picture and judge for yourself. That really is the best way.


One thing you can do to improve the picture on the Sony is to feed it a PAL signal since this has more scan lines which results in smaller, harder to see scan lines once you compress the image vertically. While it doesn't make up for the lack of line-doubling, it does improve the picture quality. I am assuming the Sony model you mentioned is capable of this since my tired old Sony is.


Also remember to consider the source from where your opinion(s) comes. I learned long ago that when it comes to audio equipment my brother is a great source of info provided I am willing to spend what he thinks is necessary to allow me to hear the 3rd violinist in whatever row they sat from the recording he has "just from closing your eyes" and feeling the imaging quality of the speakers, or whatever. Quite frankly that type of performance is a bit more than what I care to have for my tastes.


Maybe another way to put it is to ask a gourmet what the best item is on the McDonald's menu and watch the look of horror appear on his face.


It's all a matter of perspective. And in the end, your perspective is the one to worry about.


Good Luck with whatever you decide.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,034 Posts
For me the question was a matter of what else can be had near that price, not that I am simply too good for an interlaced crt (well, too spoiled) but my money can do better unless I just want to steal tubes from them...

I simply don't reccomend it.


TRoy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,549 Posts
My neighbor sold two Sony 1001's in his garage sale earlier this summer for $200 each. In my opinion that is all they are worth in excellent condition.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,112 Posts
Funny, I keep ending up on the opposite side of an opinion as Troy. :)


But, as before, I think our differing opinion is just a viewpoint/situation difference. So with that, I'll say why I am in favor of 480i CRT projectors, and we can have a nice little debate. :)



First, I will say that, as an owner of both a HD-capable CRT projector, as well as a 480i only CRT projector, there is a WORLD of difference between them!! Especially when you start talking about refresh rates, external scalers, processors, progressive scan, etc, etc. For serious home theater, go with a better unit than the 480i.


However, I can say that for normal television viewing, as well as occasional movies, I would choose my video-only CRT in a heartbeat over any LCD/DLP, up to the medium resolution units with external processing. Why? Because the digital artifacts just bug the tar out of me!! I can't stand the screen door, I can't stand the rainbows, etc. I know people with digital projectors (even 480p+ units), and have watched some movies on them, and I just can't take it. Maybe you can, but after seeing a good CRT projector, there's no turning back.


In my opinion, the 480i CRT projector will have a much smoother looking picture, interlaced or not, it will appear smoother, as it isn't pixelated.




Now, one more thing- Although I am advocating video only CRT projectors, there is a decision to be made based on your need, and the financial situation. Would I buy a 480i CRT for $50? Yes. Would I buy one for $100? Maybe. Would I buy one for $300? No. Would I buy a DIGITAL for $300? not a chance!


If your budget is $150 or less, buy an interlaced CRT, as it will provide far better picture quality than anything in 3 times the price in digital. If you want to spend more than that, buy a more capable CRT. They can be had for $600 or so for a decent 7", with fantastic results. If you have a bigger budget than that, buy a better CRT projector- you won't be unhappy.


It's up to you, but that's my opinion. CRT all the way. :)


- David
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,108 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks--Looks like ill forget about it. I am in no rush to toy around with CRT--I have my digital setup and everything, and don't feel like tearing things up right now, I am just wanting to find a good deal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
618 Posts
Having compared 480i and 720p on the same Barco 801, I'd have to say that the 480i picture wasn't "smooth" at all -- the scan lines were glaringly obvious. I had to watch 480i (through the S video input) while my scaler was being repaired a while back, and I couldn't WAIT to get the scaler back in the system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,507 Posts
The Sony 1001 is the latest (I think) version of the 10XX projectors with the brighter 07MS tubes in it. At under $400.00, if the tubes are in good shape, it's a good deal.


Look at it this way: I'll bet you can't get the bulbs any more for the Davis, and even if you can, the Sony projector is cheaper than the bulb.


Or put it this way: ONce the bulb goes, you'll be in a much greater hurry!..:)


Curt
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,112 Posts
You would be hard pressed to find a digital projector for around $350 that would perform like a 1001Q, even though it's 480i only.


That said, there is a HUGE difference between 480i and 480p. 480i and 480p is the difference between television and home theater. I've said it before and I will say it again...

Interlaced video has no place in home theater!


Now, of course I will get the nit-pickers who will say that DVD being 480i, is an example of interlaced video in home theater. But in the case of owning a video-only projector: "No pulldown for you!" Nuff said.


If I were you I would be a little more patient and wait for a data-grade 1030Q or a 1031Q to appear on eBay. I know you said you want to get one local, but sometimes a risk is worth it. In addition, being in FL I would think that one would pop up on eBay in your area eventually. It's not like you are in Indonesia! :) There are big deals to be had on eBay, if you are methodic and careful. I have bought 3 103x projectors through eBay. Most recently I got a data-grade 1030Q for $200 (+$80 shipping), and that would totally spank a 1001Q.


A 1001Q would basically be like a conventional non-HDTV RPTV, only you could have a pretty large screen with 800 peak lumens from the 07MS tubes. If that sounds appealing, then go for it. It's not that it's a bad deal. It's just that there are much better deals out there where if you pay a little more (about $100 more) you get a whole lot more (480p).


I also have to say...

Shame on Sony for not making the 1040Q, 1041Q, 1042Q, 1043Q, 1044Q, 1000Q, and 1001Q all data-grade!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,034 Posts
wd-40: I can take it. Is it because I slammed wd-40 as the worst lubricant on the planet about 6 months ago on this very forum? :)

Why do you have that name anyway? (nothing personal seriously, I truly don't hold anything against you.)


If curt says they are 07ms then I certainly believe him, and that being the case a perfect set of 07ms alone are worth $350... If you can get it cheap enough that changes the whole situation because at worst if you hate it you can pull the tubes and use or sell them.

I was not expecting it to have any better than sd-187's and would have thought sd-130.


Even if you have no interest in retubing a pj, which is a daunting task at best, if you can get the price low enough you really can't loose if the tubes are in fact "PERFECT".

You MUST remove at least the blue lens to find out though, if there is in fact wear then that is off.


You will notice in my second post I said quote: "unless I just want to steal tubes from them..."


That would make it a no loose situation at the right price.


BUT I STILL CANNOT STAND INTERLACED VIDEO MYSELF!!!


It is a GREAT idea to have a lesser pj like wd-40 says. It gives you a backup and one you can run into the ground and not even care about, but I would want it to be 480p capable, that is my only difference in opinion there.


Troy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,112 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by pcCinema
wd-40: I can take it. Is it because I slammed wd-40 as the worst lubricant on the planet about 6 months ago on this very forum? :)

Why do you have that name anyway? (nothing personal seriously, I truly don't hold anything against you.)
Nope, definitely not! I've only been a member for 3 months now, so I'd have to do some archive searching if I wanted that to bother me. :)


Why do I have this name? Well, a few years back, I needed a name for another forum I was posting on. I didn't want it to have any connection to who I really was, so I was trying to just think of some creative name off the top of my head. I happened to have a small can of WD-40 sitting on my desk, after oiling a bike chain, so I just typed in "WD-40". It wasn't taken, so that's that. :) I had a goofy little avatar that went with it, but on the AVS forum, your avatar has to have you in it personally, so it doesn't fly.


So basically, in my attempt to be creative, I was as un-creative as I could be. :)


============


But back to the debate:


I agree that progressive scan beats the tar out of interlaced video. However, I still find 480i on a CRT to be smoother and better looking to me than 480p on an LCD with a 640x480 native resolution. I'd rather see horizontal lines than see every discrete pixel with it's own black border around it. There is also the issue of screen size though- on a 110" screen, the scan line spacing will be huge. On a 70" screen, they will be much closer together.


You have to factor the native resolution in, otherwise a LCD will be doing internal scaling, and you don't really have a "480p" LCD, you have a "600p" or "768p" or what not. While the artifacts would still bother me, it *IS* a different category (being higher resolution, processed video).


- David
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,112 Posts
I agree with David in that if you ONLY have around $350 that you want to spend, CRT will still be the way to go even though it would be interlaced. The 1001Q has s-video in so you will at least be a step up from crappy composite.


A interlaced CRT REALLY has the advantage over a cheaper LCD in operating costs. If the tubes are minty it WILL last you MANY years.


The issue is that for a hundred to a few hundred more you will get a disproportionate gain in image quality potential in your favor. Though you would have to factor in processing equipment. But there if you are on a beer budget you are talking $150 for a decent line doubler, again, an excellent deal considering what they went for 5 years ago!
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top