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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm in the process of upgrading my audio system to separates and new speakers, and I'd like to be able to take advantage of the new system for music playback in addition to HT. I would like to have high-quality playback of both MP3 and redbook CD's. I'm not interested using soundcard DAC's, I want to send PCM to my pre/pro and use its DAC's. From what I remember reading a while back though, this is only possible using M-Audio cards with the VXD drivers, since all WDM drivers upsample to 48kHz.


So is that still the case, or is there some way to get this working under XP? Right now I have a Guilletmot Fortissimo 1 card (Yamaha chipset), but I'd be willing to buy an M-Audio card if necessary. But I don't want to waste the money on a new soundcard if it won't do what I need. The other option is to buy a separate MP3 device such as the Audiotron (which has a 44.1kHz SPDIF output), but that seems like a waste of money when I already have an HTPC, plus it wouldn't help me with redbook CD's.
 

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â€From what I remember reading a while back though, this is only possible using M-Audio cards with the VXD drivers, since all WDM drivers upsample to 48kHz.â€


Jeff,


This is not correct for the M Audio WDM drivers under XP. WDM drivers that upsample are the AC97 soundcards
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Quote:
This is not correct for the M Audio WDM drivers under XP. WDM drivers that upsample are the AC97 soundcards
I could have sworn I remember reading where you told people that if they wanted 44kHz output from the M-Audio cards they had to use the VXD drivers. Was that the case at one point and things have changed, or am I just remembering wrong?


OK, so let's say I buy an AP2496. Will I be able to play DD/DTS at 48kHz using TT and play MP3/CD music at 44kHz using Winamp seamlessly, or would I have to go into the control panel to change options?


Thanks,


Jeff
 

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Jeff,


I think you are getting it mixed up with me telling people that you need VxD drivers to get uncorrupted DTS CD audio.


No changes in the Delta Control Panel are necessary to play different media at their correct sample rate.
 

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Just such a bum deal that you need VxD and old tech to play the DTS CD's !!!


I have read this is the fact but in the volume on audio threads (pun intended) I missed the why of this ?? Without asking anyone to retype volumes any post / thread you could point me to to understand this would be cool...
 

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While I am not sure if the card is actually outputting 44.1 my CMI8738 based sound card's mixer panel has the option of selecting either 44.1 or 48 under XP. I have 44.1 selected and all is working well, errr let me elaborate I get both DD & DTS from movies but I have no other way of verifying if I am actually sending 44.1.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
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Originally posted by Cliff Watson
Jeff,


I think you are getting it mixed up with me telling people that you need VxD drivers to get uncorrupted DTS CD audio.


No changes in the Delta Control Panel are necessary to play different media at their correct sample rate.
You're right Cliff, that must be what I was thinking of. But I'm still a little bit confused; If the M-Audio cards can output an unaltered 44kHz signal then why can't they play DTS CD's? I thought it was because sound gets passed through the mixer and was therefore not a "perfect" reproduction.
 

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Hi Jeff:


___Both the C-Media 8738 chipset and M-Audio AP2496/DiO/Delta 410 will output 44.1 KHz PCM (MP3’s/CD-Audio) under XP Home and Pro. The C-Media solution is however a lower quality sound solution and has to be forced to run one or the other (44.1 or 48 KHz) outputs. The M-Audio cards (Cliff actually made this possible with his insistence to the Midiman driver coders last year) will auto swap for your PCM (44.1 KHz) MP3/CD-Audio as well as DD/DTS (48 KHz needs) from a DVD without any end user intervention whatsoever. It’s the DTS CD-audio that is unfortunately not available/not properly supported under Windows XP. You can however dual boot back to Millennium/Win98 SE if you need this capability ;) In any case, just pick up an M-Audio card, they are worth it!


___Audiovideodude, you are unfortunately stuck with a 48 KHz upsample of all 44.1 KHz sources …


___Good Luck


___Wayne R. Gerdes

___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.

___ [email protected]
 

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I'm hoping to finally get a M-Audio card for my B-day.


Is the Audiophile 24/96 still the all around best choice for HTPC?
 

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The 24/96 is fine if you only want digital out but the more exciting option is to go for at least the 410 which has 8 analogue outs too...


With the new drivers there is a basic pre / pro funtionality for HTPC out sounds (nothing for decode currently but who know) plus you still have your digital out... DPLII from PowerDVD alone should make this a deal worth taking...


Of course this is all still in the beta arena so dont be too pissed if it does not outperform Lexicon yet (though I am confident if they could just open source it or help a dev team thay would get there fast !!!)...
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Phat Phreddy
The 24/96 is fine if you only want digital out but the more exciting option is to go for at least the 410 which has 8 analogue outs too...


With the new drivers there is a basic pre / pro funtionality for HTPC out sounds (nothing for decode currently but who know) plus you still have your digital out... DPLII from PowerDVD alone should make this a deal worth taking...


Of course this is all still in the beta arena so dont be too pissed if it does not outperform Lexicon yet (though I am confident if they could just open source it or help a dev team thay would get there fast !!!)...
I understand the appeal of this approach for some people, but it's not something I have any interest in. For one thing, I have audio sources other than my HTPC that need to be handled. Besides, the M-Audio cards may have really nice sounding DAC's, but I don't think they'll be able to match the performance and features of mid-fi pre/pro's anytime soon, not to mention stability and useability issues. With the release of the Outlaw 950 (which is what I'm getting), excellent-sounding pre/pro's just got a lot more affordable.
 

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Even if you don't think it's the way to go right now it's only a $20 difference so why not just go for the 410? Thanks Phreddy for the tip.
 

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VXD's are not used by XP - These are drivers used only by DOS 9x (err, I mean Windows 9x/ME).


To get 44Khz from an M-Audio in XP you have to do... well... not much. Without the sample rate locked: Play a 44kHz CD - out comes 44kHz. Play a 44kHz MP3 - you guessed it - 44kHz.


Play a crappy Windows wav file (e.g. tada.wav) - nothing - UNLESS you up/down sample ("lock the sample rate") to - you guessed it - 44kHz (or better, or worse - for some reason, you have to up or down sample to play 22kHz wav's and quite often game sound effects in XP w/ M-Audio)


hope that helps...


-Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
True DRS, I hadn't notice the price difference was only $20. Though I have to wonder how they can include 5 extra channels for such a small price increase, make me wonder if there are any compromises in the 410.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by JKohn
True DRS, I hadn't notice the price difference was only $20. Though I have to wonder how they can include 5 extra channels for such a small price increase, make me wonder if there are any compromises in the 410.
Jeff,


If it makes you feel better I'll sale you a Delta 410 for $299. :D
 

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Quote:
the M-Audio cards may have really nice sounding DAC's, but I don't think they'll be able to match the performance and features of mid-fi pre/pro's anytime soon
I think it was Bill Gaw who said that it (the 1010) was the best thing he had ever connected to his Theta Casablanca including a Theta transport !!!
Quote:
With the release of the Outlaw 950 (which is what I'm getting), excellent-sounding pre/pro's just got a lot more affordable.
I know that the market is certainly moving but from what I read if you want stereo without sub you might want to consider the 'extra' features of a 410...


$20 for the flexibility... Cant see thats a bad deal...
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
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I think it was Bill Gaw who said that it (the 1010) was the best thing he had ever connected to his Theta Casablanca including a Theta transport !!!
But the 1010 is a $600 card with external DAC's, not exactly the same thing as a AP2496 or 410. As far as pure sound quality goes, the 950 has been placed in the same league as units from Lexicon and Anthem (though admittedly it can't compete with those products in terms of overall features). Besides, it's not just DAC's that affect overall performance.

Quote:
I know that the market is certainly moving but from what I read if you want stereo without sub you might want to consider the 'extra' features of a 410...
The Outlaw 950 does have some bass-management issues with analog inputs. That's a big part of the reason I want to feed it a digital signal so that I can use the digital bass management as well as having the option to use features such as DPLII or CES processing.

Quote:
$20 for the flexibility... Cant see thats a bad deal...
True, if the sound quality is at least as good as the AP2496 then it makes sense. One possible future use I might have for the analog outputs is if we ever get software support for SACD/DVD-A, I could use the 410 to feed my pre/pro's 5.1 inputs.
 

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Jeff, I have been trying to get anyone who has actually listened to a 1010 and a 410 or 1010LT on equipment good enough to tell here but not getting any responses...


I do remember a Cliff post stating that looking purely at the specs for the 410 and 1010 it made the 1010 so much stronger but in listening very little if anything could be defined but I have no idea how these tests were performed or on what equipment...


I like you have just moved up in the audio dept and am looking for a new soundcard... unlike you I am considering the 1010 or 410 and eliminating the reciever for CD / DVD / HTPC use and just keeping it in my setup for any external digital stream like a game box or similar... I know being out there on the bleeding edge can be a PITA but if its too much hassle I can just use the digital outs...
 
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