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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All.


I've been browsing around the DIY Screen Section for a bit now and man, lots of information/options floating around. Now to the point.


I have a 16' x 18' bonus room that will have the projector screen on the shorter dimension in front of the window in the room (read the window will be covered, so the only ambient light would be from my computer monitors in the room, but these will most likely be off during viewing). I'm looking at about a 100" - 106" screen as seating will be about 11' - 12' away. I'm looking for suggestions on building a screen/buying a screen etc etc.


My other half doesn't like the idea of blocking off the only window in the room full time, so I'm left with a couple options:


1) Buy a manual pull down like this one . The issue here is I'm worried about waves in the screen and also the uncertainty that whenever I pull down the screen, it'll pull down to the exact same spot such that I don't have to vertically adjust my protector (Will this be an issue?). The convenience being that I can roll it up out of they way when needed and it's out of the way.


2) Build a DIY fixed screen and have it fold up and away, much like what was done here . This is where my DIY screen questions begin.


1. If I go this route, would a wood frame be prohibitive with respect to weight?

2. Would a single rectangular 1" aluminum tube frame be strong enough s.t. it doesn't warp when the screen material is stretched? would I need to have a vertical support in the center? If I'm attaching it like the above DIY, I wouldn't be able to put the support in the middle as the screen is behind the tubing. I guess the person above did it without the center vertical on a 120", which seemed to work ok for him. I don't know, just want verification from someone else that it doesn't seem out of line to forget it.

3. Speaking of screen material, there is a LOT of material on screen material (pun intended). Options ranging from BOC to Spandex to custom cloth, all with options to paint on a surface. I'm kind of lost in the sense as I don't know what will be appropriate for my setup.

4.a. If I go BOC, I saw some used velcro to attached to an aluminum frame, which seems a bit cost prohibitive (1"x50' for $50). That cost includes the probability of doing something like the DIY I referenced, where he stuck velcro on the interior of the frame to help reduce reflections from the screen to the aluminum tube. (maybe just some felt tape instead?)

4.b. Anyone have other ideas of how to stick the screen to an aluminum tube? Just a flat aluminum tube, nothing with splines or anything. If I were to go wood, I'd just staple it around the edge.

4.c. Using BOC, what would necessitate spraying on a surface such as Silver Fire?

5. Is spandex meant only really for AT screens? I'm not looking to setup an AT screen as I'm not getting that fancy with the audio system (yet). That and the position of the window and screen doesn't allow me to place a center speaker behind the screen.
 

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Yes, a tensioned screen might be the best bet. If you are planning on staying there for a while, and using the theater for a while, I would consider one of those.


If you are not going to be there for a long time, then a pull down might be fine. No, it won't be a perfect screen, but if you are only planning a shorter use, that might work for what you need.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the replies. I am not looking at a tab-tensioned screen just out of costs. As it is now, the other half is weary about droppin' $1100 on the 8350. So I gotta try to save money on the screen :/ I think I'm going to try doing a 1x3 poplar/maple screen with window screen spline aluminum. I guess BOC is an ok starter until I muster up the courage/motivation to put some SF down on it. Hopefully it works out well. We'll see what happens.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'm trying to find a good idea of which Silver Fire v2.5 colorant ounce quantity would be best for varying scenarios.


I'm looking at mounting my 8350 15 -16' away from a 106" screen in a most of the time controlled light room (black out drapes and maybe a bit extra to completely block out exterior light). Is 15'-16' away an OK distance for the 8350? Should it be closer? Oh, also, my ceiling is 8' high.


Right now I have a ceiling fan that hangs down with light, so I'm either looking at mounting it below that level (1' - 1.5' down), or offsetting the PJ to the side to shoot around the dome. Thoughts on that? It'd also help so I can host poker games in the room without having people sitting in direct path of the PJ. I know the 8350 has a wide range of vertical/horizontal shifting, but I don't know if it'll affect the image/brightness on one side or the other due to a horizontal shift.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan  /t/1471180/so-much-information-its-...wn-aluminum-screen-w-epson-8350#post_23287263


See where hanging it at 11' 4" put it in respect to the Fan. A shorter throw is always better when ambient light resistance is needed.


Can the Fan's drop be shortened?

MM, I'm not quite following the first part of your post. "See where hanging it at 11'4" put it in respect to the Fan." Also, the fan's drop can't be shortened, although I plan to remove the lights eventually and put in down lighting around the room (a while out).



I'm not sure if I'm concerned too much about ambient light as most of the viewing will be in the evening/night and we plan to put up black out curtains behind the projector and in front of the windows. With that in mind, any comment on SF v2.5 x.0?



@Laserfan: I'm looking into sources of that around my area now. Any idea on costs?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by rengep  /t/1471180/so-much-information-its-...wn-aluminum-screen-w-epson-8350#post_23287959


If you are not to picky about your screen and are happy to buy a refurbished 8350 then this might fit your needs:

http://www.simplylowprice.com/Focupix_Flexio_16_9_Electric_Motorized_Screen_103_p/20012.htm

http://www.visualapex.com/Epson/Projector-Specifications.asp?For-The=Home-Cinema-8350-R


They both come with free shipping and are within your $1100 budget. But if you are a DIY enthusiast like myself, go for the silverfire build. It's great fun and MM is here to help if you get stuck

Thanks for the links. That screen doesn't look too bad for $200. I'll consider it, but I'm kind of leaning towards a DIY since I do like to build stuff



I've been looking at the refurb projectors, and they are definitely an options. the Epson clearance store has them for the same price, but I'm just worried about the headache if it comes defective. I hear they take care of you though.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas_d  /t/1471180/so-much-information-its-...wn-aluminum-screen-w-epson-8350#post_23288000


MM, I'm not quite following the first part of your post. "See where hanging it at 11'4" put it in respect to the Fan." Also, the fan's drop can't be shortened, although I plan to remove the lights eventually and put in down lighting around the room (a while out).

I was thinking / hoping that the Throw suggested might put you /the PJ between the Screen and Fan.

Why wait for the Can lights? You can get Retro-4" Can Spots at Home Depot for $30.00 ea. There are super easy to install. You have power already, just some Romex runs and two or four round holes and that Light Dome can be history.

Quote:
I'm not sure if I'm concerned too much about ambient light as most of the viewing will be in the evening/night and we plan to put up black out curtains behind the projector and in front of the windows. With that in mind, any comment on SF v2.5 x.0?


@Laserfan: I'm looking into sources of that around my area now. Any idea on costs?
SF v2.5 2.0


Where do you live? I might be of some help locating the most affordable sources.
 

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Yes I have had a go at Epson and they do have a excellent costumer service. I have the 8100 and with only a month left on the warranty they swapped the main board, optical engine, lens and lamp free of charge. So it's almost new again. Had an issue with a slight curving of the top of the projected image which is all sorted now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan  /t/1471180/so-much-information-its-...wn-aluminum-screen-w-epson-8350#post_23288565


I was thinking / hoping that the Throw suggested might put you /the PJ between the Screen and Fan.

Why wait for the Can lights? You can get Retro-4" Can Spots at Home Depot for $30.00 ea. There are super easy to install. You have power already, just some Romex runs and two or four round holes and that Light Dome can be history.
SF v2.5 2.0


Where do you live? I might be of some help locating the most affordable sources.

Ah, the fan is in the center of the room, at about 8' from the screen. Would it be bad to place it @ 11'4" offset about 2' to the right?


I'm working on the fiancee' to let me do the lighting, but she has other plans for the money in the near future. If I do end up putting in new ones, I'll need to figure out placement and probably install a new dimmer to account for the lights that will be covered by the screen folded up against the ceiling. The fan is at 8' out, whereas the screen when folded may be around 5' - 5.5' from the wall.


Thanks for the SF recommendation. I'll update if/when I do it. I imagine it's a bad idea to spray the screen before stretching it onto the frame? (trying to be lazy to avoid taping the frame when spraying.)


I'm way over in Boise, ID.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rengep  /t/1471180/so-much-information-its-...wn-aluminum-screen-w-epson-8350#post_23288580


Yes I have had a go at Epson and they do have a excellent costumer service. I have the 8100 and with only a month left on the warranty they swapped the main board, optical engine, lens and lamp free of charge. So it's almost new again. Had an issue with a slight curving of the top of the projected image which is all sorted now.

Thanks for the information. Maybe that will be an economical option.
 

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I'm sure 2' is too much. But you can always try it by placing the PJ on a table at the proposed location and seeing how much Horizontal Shift it takes.


One thing though....as the amount of Shift in any one direction increases, the amount you can shift in the other decreases. At 2' of Horizontal Shift, you will almost assuredly have to be very exacting in your PJs height placement. My gut feeling is however, having myself installed over 20- 8350s, that what your trying to do will be well nigh impossible, or highly unlikely to give you the results you want.


And of course, there is this thing....eventually if you get around to getting rid of a Light Kit that you obviously cannot even use when watching the Screen ( ...it's not a "shielded" light and resides directly in front of the Screen...
) then you'll have to go to the trouble of remounting the PJ. Besides...it will look very bad being so off center, crowding the ceiling with oddly place gear as it will. Personally, I don't see the sense in all that.


But I tend to be opinionated, owning to the fact I'm usually responsible for installing things correctly the first time around.
 

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News Flash!


This just in.................,


You haven't got the 8350 yet....right? I see a Short Throw PJ in your immediate future....one you can place between the Fan and Screen, and even put high enough to just have the forward most tips of the Fan Blades miss it's arse end and yet still allow you to raise the screen against the Ceiling..


Really, with all the other rigamarole' your facing trying to compromise the 'ell out of everything...a Short Throw PJ makes a whole lot of sense.


There is the BenQ 1080st....which for a 106" screen can be placed between 5' 4" & 6' 5", well ahead of your fold-up screen. The BenQ doesn't have Lens shift, but it does have Keystone adjustment, and with that you could mount that sucka at just 8" down from the ceiling, give it just a tad bit of tilt, and have everything you really want.............,


...........except a new fiancee' who understands all about what is required to accomplish a well thought out system. Those particular types are a rare breed, and worth their weight in replacement lamps.


BTW....the paint recommendation would still be Silver Fire v2.5 2.0
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan  /t/1471180/so-much-information-its-...wn-aluminum-screen-w-epson-8350#post_23289481


I'm sure 2' is too much. But you can always try it by placing the PJ on a table at the proposed location and seeing how much Horizontal Shift it takes.


One thing though....as the amount of Shift in any one direction increases, the amount you can shift in the other decreases. At 2' of Horizontal Shift, you will almost assuredly have to be very exacting in your PJs height placement. My gut feeling is however, having myself installed over 20- 8350s, that what your trying to do will be well nigh impossible, or highly unlikely to give you the results you want.


And of course, there is this thing....eventually if you get around to getting rid of a Light Kit that you obviously cannot even use when watching the Screen ( ...it's not a "shielded" light and resides directly in front of the Screen...
) then you'll have to go to the trouble of remounting the PJ. Besides...it will look very bad being so off center, crowding the ceiling with oddly place gear as it will. Personally, I don't see the sense in all that.


But I tend to be opinionated, owning to the fact I'm usually responsible for installing things correctly the first time around.

Ok, I think you've convinced me that I will need to replace the lighting before I mount the PJ. We were going to move the fan w/ light into another room anyways, so I'll just use that as an excuse to do it earlier
I would rather have it done right the first time too :/ what will happen if I don't place the projector 11'4" away? Say I put it back at 15' or 16'. Will the light loss be that detrimental?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan  /t/1471180/so-much-information-its-...wn-aluminum-screen-w-epson-8350#post_23289608


News Flash!


This just in.................,


You haven't got the 8350 yet....right? I see a Short Throw PJ in your immediate future....one you can place between the Fan and Screen, and even put high enough to just have the forward most tips of the Fan Blades miss it's arse end and yet still allow you to raise the screen against the Ceiling..


Really, with all the other rigamarole' your facing trying to compromise the 'ell out of everything...a Short Throw PJ makes a whole lot of sense.


There is the BenQ 1080st....which for a 106" screen can be placed between 5' 4" & 6' 5", well ahead of your fold-up screen. The BenQ doesn't have Lens shift, but it does have Keystone adjustment, and with that you could mount that sucka at just 8" down from the ceiling, give it just a tad bit of tilt, and have everything you really want.............,


...........except a new fiancee' who understands all about what is required to accomplish a well thought out system. Those particular types are a rare breed, and worth their weight in replacement lamps.


BTW....the paint recommendation would still be Silver Fire v2.5 2.0

I have not bought it yet. The Short Throw PJ you suggested does sound appealing. I kind of steered away from DLPs as i'm worried about rainbow effects. Maybe I just have read too many horror stories of people being unable to watch them (even the newer double wheels). Also, from what I understand, keystone is not optical, so it's screwing with pixels right? I'm going to be using this for a home theater, gaming use, and sometime just as a computer monitor (just because I can). Will using Keystone screw with how things are displayed when I use it as a monitor?


I think the Short throw though PJ could work out very nicely for me as it'll allow me to put in a poker table in the center of the room and still be able to use it if desired. Hmm. Choices choices. Does anyone have any experience with BenQ projectors? Customer Support? Warranty? Also, I was looking and some were commenting about focus with the 1080ST. Also, it's 1-2Month ship time from Amazon :/


I'll massage the issue with the fiancee' to see if we can make the changes to the room for the 8350, but if not, that BenQ may be the best bet.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas_d  /t/1471180/so-much-information-its-...wn-aluminum-screen-w-epson-8350#post_23288000


@Laserfan: I'm looking into sources of that around my area now. Any idea on costs?
My 5x10' x1/2" pure white gatorfoam board was $145 +tax 5 years ago (! wow has it been that long, yes!). They cut it down from 60" for free.


My local distributor is Laird Plastics, and I found them by registering at the www.alcancompositesusa.com website. I had to "sign-up" at that site to get their distro/retailer list, but that was easy and did NOT result in any salesmen calling or frivolous emails or any such.


I believe Laird is all over the country. Mine was really nice to work with, and carry Sintra and others as well.


BTW I never painted my GF screen. No hotspotting, just 1.0 (probably less) perfection with my Mitsu HC4900 projector. All I've done with it is to trim it with stick-on 3" black felt.

http://s124.photobucket.com/user/laserfan/library/Home%20Theater?sort=3&page=1


The tricky thing about buying a hard 1/2" thick screen that size was getting it home safely. I had to transport it on a utility trailer and protecting it from the elements was nontrivial to do. Ideally you have them deliver it in a panel truck or rent such a thing or something...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas_d  /t/1471180/so-much-information-its-...wn-aluminum-screen-w-epson-8350#post_23291081


Ok, I think you've convinced me that I will need to replace the lighting before I mount the PJ. We were going to move the fan w/ light into another room anyways, so I'll just use that as an excuse to do it earlier
I would rather have it done right the first time too :/ what will happen if I don't place the projector 11'4" away? Say I put it back at 15' or 16'. Will the light loss be that detrimental?

There is a significant difference: With a 8350 and a SF v2.5 2.0 at 15' with 100" diagonal, you'd get 20 fls. At 11' 4" it jumps to 30 fls (50% increase) and at 10' a goodly 38 fls.


The BenQ at 5.5' also delivers 38 fls
Quote:
I have not bought it yet. The Short Throw PJ you suggested does sound appealing. I kind of steered away from DLPs as i'm worried about rainbow effects. Maybe I just have read too many horror stories of people being unable to watch them (even the newer double wheels). Also, from what I understand, keystone is not optical, so it's screwing with pixels right? I'm going to be using this for a home theater, gaming use, and sometime just as a computer monitor (just because I can). Will using Keystone screw with how things are displayed when I use it as a monitor?

It should not if the amount of tilt and the resulting correction is held to a minimum. However I beleive that concern is moot because if you chose the BenQ it will be well ahead of the Fan and able to be mounted with the Lens at 7'...and the Screen top the same.


Can't do anything about RBE if you turned out to be susceptible to such. But the reality is that RBE manifests itself most as screen sizes go up. Usually, it's people whose eyes are not in parity that have the most problem, as the different focus values tend to separate the motion of the color elements, much like a prisim does a beam of white light.
Quote:
I think the Short throw though PJ could work out very nicely for me as it'll allow me to put in a poker table in the center of the room and still be able to use it if desired. Hmm. Choices choices. Does anyone have any experience with BenQ projectors? Customer Support? Warranty? Also, I was looking and some were commenting about focus with the 1080ST. Also, it's 1-2Month ship time from Amazon :/

You bet'cha it would work (...RBE notwithstanding...) especially since you game. Just imagine being able to stand within 4' of a 100" Screen and mow down the opposition (...you'll see them before they see you...) or be entirely immersed in a Racing Game. Go back and look all the way through my Thread, and use supposition to change the Tab Tensioned Screen into a Fixed Screen and postulate your end results.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1432177/painting-onto-a-106-tab-tensioned-screen-with-silver-fire-v2-5-4-0

......of course placing the 8350 at it's absolute closest location...and as high as possible (Lens 7" from the ceiling) will accomplish almost as much in regard to standing close-ability. And there is the 8350's famously short lag time.



With all due respect and proper's due Laserfan and his results, I have to advise against Gatorfoam as it is a Paper laminated low density Foam product that dents and mars much too easily, and is even prone to crinkling or outright breakage if stressed very far off the perpendicular. ( That simply will never happen with Sintra and similar products. )


It must be said that Gatorfoam is nice stuff to use because it is smooth & a even white surface. But the price is not really competitive with Sintra, which usually cost less than what was stated above...and that's at today's price point. (...but what was posted might have been a Retail price...I'm used to receiving stock at wholesale...)


Checking, I could not find either a Laird Plastics or Piedmont Plastics in Idaho, let alone Boise...so that does limit you to sourcing through Sign Shops. But being west of the Continental Divide, you have Doable Board to consider (...acclaimed as the best'est Hang & Shoot of 'em all...) from Home Depot and/or Lowes. It's also crazy less expensive than Sintra / Komatex / Gatorfoam. However it''s available only in 4' x 8' so that restricts your screen size to 100". But doable is the heaviest of the three.....and gatorfoam the lightest...so there is that. I do however feel Sintra / Komatex at 4' x 8' x 6mm cut to 48" x 85" would be the very best choice, and would require a minimal Frame for support.
Quote:
I'll massage the issue with the fiancee' to see if we can make the changes to the room for the 8350, but if not, that BenQ may be the best bet.

Massage in any case....it pays to get brownie points at all times.
 

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Gatorfoam requires careful handling, that is very true, but upon getting it home safely, and after 5 years in my adult household of putting it up & taking it down frequently, it has been projection screen perfection at a dirt cheap price.


I don't know Sintra; it seems to me that it was at Laird when I visited there 5 yrs ago but only in Grey. Nor do I know if Sintra come thick enough i.e. stiff enough to rotate up and out-of-the-way as the OP seemed interested in doing, so I defer to experience.
 

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No doubt, 1/2" Gatorfoam is both rigid and light.


For such a use as Douglas_d envisions, both materials will require a Frame.


If upon careful inspection Douglas_d finds a sheet of GF that is pristine...and "if" he makes it through the build / paint process with it unscathed, I will agree that GF will be the lightest material to work with.


Douglas_d.....,


Painting on GF requires that the rear be primed at least with 2 light coats,to prevent warp-age. GF is so lightweight, it will warp...even at 1/2 thick, if the SF paint contracts as it dries / cures, and the sheet is not adequately held square by a Frame. In your case, and owing to the probable need to have the Frame be fairly lightweight itself, the rear Priming will serve to seal the back side against moisture....as well as help to prevent any "stress related cupping" caused by paint contraction.


Lastly, wrapping the rear frame of the Screen with a colored Spandex, one that possibly closely matches your Ceiling color, will make the entire assembly look very neat and refined.


Extra lastly......Upon reflection (...a horrible pun....) I feel Silver Fire v2.5 3.0 might be the better choice if the BenQ is used.


Stay in touch Doug.....and ask questions before they become issues. Always the best course....don't rush....wait for assuring responses.
 
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