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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I gave up earlier this year when I saw how disappointing 2011 model tv's were.. has anything come out since the initial wave in march/april that is worth looking at in the 46 or 47 inch size?


I hate the cheap plastic build of Sony's, and the monolith sets are too expensive.


LG used super cheap plastic frames on their 5600 set, I have yet to see if the 6500 is as cheap looking.. picture quality from what I saw was very average.


Samsung D7000/8000 appear to have some strange new pixel size/grid look to the picture.


I know LG's higher end sets are coming out.. any word on those yet? Anything else to look at in the middle class range for LED or should I hold out until 2012 models.
 

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I've been disappointed with the range of options in smaller sizes (32-37 inch). You can't find but 1 or two that offer 120hz (I've read enough about Vizio's rebooting problems and general build quality to pass) and it seems like they've done away with full-array LED backlighting (at least in smaller sets).


What I wonder about the new sets is whether the new 3-D technology will be worth the cost down the road. Will 3-D programming have a niche following or will it be embraced by a wide audience? I wouldn't want to pay the premium right now to find out that a few years from now those fancy 3-D glasses are worthless.


Putting 3-D aside, I don't see the difference between buying a 2011 model and what was offered in the 2010 lineups.
 

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Besides cost, I really don't see any reason to buy a older model. Your really not getting anything better per say. I have 4 flat panel TV's in my house, two of which are over 40 inches. A LG and a Samaung. The Samaung was just purchased and the LG was purchased last year. What I can tell you is that each firmware update they have had has better utalized the processing power. Each firmware update Samsung releases improves upon the Auto Motion technology. It is looking less and less like a soap opera when enabled. I bring this up because most of the issues I have had with both sets have been improved greatly or have gone away with each firmware update. I think were at a point in which picture quality is becoming more of a software/firmware issue than a hardware issue. Purchase a TV if you want one now because I really don't see major hardware improvements until we get OLED.
 

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2011 is a great year, every few years we get ONE top LCd, this year there are TWO top LCd's.


The sony xbr HX929 is a great TV, even Plasma fans appreciate it.


Sharp Elite Pro X5 is gonna be the best LCd TV EVER.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 /forum/post/20873267


2011 is a great year, every few years we get ONE top LCd, this year there are TWO top LCd's.


The sony xbr HX929 is a great TV, even Plasma fans appreciate it.


Sharp Elite Pro X5 is gonna be the best LCd TV EVER.

You may be right about those two TVs, but not everyone can afford to buy the best, most expensive TV. And, although I can, I choose not to because I have other priorities.


That being said, I do think the overall quality, especially with regard to screen imperfections, has markedly declined the past two years. Two or three years ago, you could get a quality CCFL/LCD for a relatively decent price (or we thought the prices were decent then) from most major manufacturers. Now, prices have declined even further, but so has the quality and CCFL has fallen out of favor because everyone wants thinner, sexier panels. For the life of me, I don't understand why. I just want a good TV.


I'm guessing the time isn't far off when edge-lit LED/LCDs especially will be replaced by newer, better, and more affordable technology. History pretty much proves that.
 

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havn't been keeping up with all the details...is the Sharp Elite poised to be the new Kuro in terms of LCD's?...the pricing is ridiculous...starting at $6000?...are they going for the Pioneer Kuro plasma pricing where this is the absolute best of the best as far as LCD?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy /forum/post/20873557


havn't been keeping up with all the details...is the Sharp Elite poised to be the new Kuro in terms of LCD's?...the pricing is ridiculous...starting at $6000?...are they going for the Pioneer Kuro plasma pricing where this is the absolute best of the best as far as LCD?

I think they are trying to go for the best HDTV period, against LCD and Plasma.


We will see in the shoot out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
ya I can't afford an HX929 and I definitely won't be able to afford the pioneer/sharp collaboration.. anything for us petty folks who also want good picture quality and features without buying a plastic piece of crap that will fall apart in 5 months
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 /forum/post/20873267


The sony xbr HX929 is a great TV, even Plasma fans appreciate it.

+ 1 to that. I wish there where more local dimming sets out....
 

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I would love to get the HX929 model. But it's out of my budget range. I think I may go with the Sony 46HX729. It is dynamic edge LED but has local dimming. Would this TV be acceptable? One of my main factors would be PS3 gaming. What's so special about local dimming and full-array LEDs?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilerJim /forum/post/20873533


You may be right about those two TVs, but not everyone can afford to buy the best, most expensive TV. And, although I can, I choose not to because I have other priorities.


That being said, I do think the overall quality, especially with regard to screen imperfections, has markedly declined the past two years. Two or three years ago, you could get a quality CCFL/LCD for a relatively decent price (or we thought the prices were decent then) from most major manufacturers. Now, prices have declined even further, but so has the quality and CCFL has fallen out of favor because everyone wants thinner, sexier panels. For the life of me, I don't understand why. I just want a good TV.


I'm guessing the time isn't far off when edge-lit LED/LCDs especially will be replaced by newer, better, and more affordable technology. History pretty much proves that.

Thin is in. I get such a kick out of wandering the aisles where I work and observing the customers peering around the sides and backs of the sets looking for the skinniest ones. It's gotten to the point that some models are too skinny to accomodate standard component video input jacks--they come with a dongle adapter that plugs into a special skinny jack.


There are still at least a couple of decent ccfl models around, the Sony EX500 and Samsung LN630. They're not as good as the best ccfl models from previous years but if uniform screen illumination is a must they're the next best thing to a plasma.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by eneyman
ya I can't afford an HX929 and I definitely won't be able to afford the pioneer/sharp collaboration.. anything for us petty folks who also want good picture quality and features without buying a plastic piece of crap that will fall apart in 5 months
I always view and evaluate the latest technology with a lot of experience and a heavy BS filter engaged.

One cannot trust dealers in general as what they sell has always been the best. One cannot trust the advice here at AVS which frequently leads down obsessive dead-end paths. For example, no one should be buying large edge lit LCD displays.

Sharp is taking advantage of this consumer awareness and uses full backplane LED arrays, but without local dimming.


Local dimming becomes much less important as the basic quality of the panel improves. Watching Sharp HDTVs over the years has been torturous experience until the last month. Their latest output is gorgeous.


The two price points that I'd recommend are kinda breakthroughs.

For 60" 2D only get the C o s t go 633 for the same price as big river for the 120hz model. It does NOT have the fourth yellow pixel:
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product...1#BVRRWidgetID



For 70" get the new 735 with 3D. I evaluated one today in 3D and its going to replace my Panasonic 65" vt-25. It has excellent price and performance. The inherent refinement of the latest x-gen panels are reason the improvement - NOT local dimming which is more of a band-aid.


I have not impressed with the 120Hz 732 or even the 733&4. My testing has not been that through, but i see the picture quality improving dramatically. Sharp must be refining the designs. The 735 has superior clarity and resolution in 3D.

This proves that consumers don't know a good picture when they see it.

I saw minor ghosting in the worst case - the in-your-face floating lights in Tangled 3D.

So $1500 or (for me) $3400.


Here is a nice review of the 2D only 732 in which the reviewer is noticing what I've seeing in the 735. But it make no sense to get the 732 now when the 735 offers the best 3D daytime or subdued viewing experience of any flat panel.


The Elite sales force knows the 735 is close in performance but will perform many advanced sales techniques (usually half truths) to get the upscale market to pay double.

http://hometheaterreview.com/sharp-l...viewed/?page=2


Here is another secret: for the best calibration (grey scale tracking and color) use the breakthrough x-rite i1 Display Pro for MSRP $250 with you htpc video cards lookup table. Your computers lookup table offers far more precise calibration than the locked down ISF controls. Besides it all automated and can be done each month in 10 minutes.


In conclusion these are the two significant picture quality and price breakthroughs which a will take months and years for consumer to figure out.
http://www.amazon.com/Xrite-EODIS3-i...4486661&sr=8-1
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun
best calibration (grey scale tracking and color) use the breakthrough x-rite i1 Display Pro for MSRP $250 with you htpc video cards lookup table. Your computers lookup table offers far more precise calibration than the locked down ISF controls. Besides it all automated and can be done each month in 10 minutes.


In conclusion these are the two significant picture quality and price breakthroughs which a will take months and years for consumer to figure out.
http://www.amazon.com/Xrite-EODIS3-i...4486661&sr=8-1
I'm most curious what you mean about the last part. Are you implying you can do an automated greyscale? If so, is there some sort of guide to this?
 

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You should be as this is a monumental shift which the display industry and calibrators will disparage. It also proves the superiority of "free and clear" personal computers where you are the system administrator - not Apple or Google!


Information is hard to come by but the key features in Windows 7 and modern monitors is ADC (Auto Display Control). We don't hear much of it because there is no money to be made of it.

http://www.ephotozine.com/article/co...n-review-17028


Note the i1 Display Pro is a calibration device that can calibrate your monitor, laptop, and projector all in one. It DOES NOT WORK for plasma as the ABL circuitry ruins the calibration. For projectors you select "native". It takes 490 measurements (with large patches selected) in 10 minutes then saves it to an icc profile which automatically loads for that particular monitor at bootup.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun
You should be as this is a monumental shift which the display industry and calibrators will disparage. It also proves the superiority of "free and clear" personal computers where you are the system administrator - not Apple or Google!


Information is hard to come by but the key features in Windows 7 and modern monitors is ADC (Auto Display Control). We don't hear much of it because there is no money to be made of it.

http://www.ephotozine.com/article/co...n-review-17028


Note the i1 Display Pro is a calibration device that can calibrate your monitor, laptop, and projector all in one. It DOES NOT WORK for plasma as the ABL circuitry ruins the calibration. For projectors you select "native". It takes 490 measurements (with large patches selected) in 10 minutes then saves it to an icc profile which automatically loads for that particular monitor at bootup.
Curious, how does attaching the i1 Display to the projector lens do anything? It is not taking into account ambient light, particularly that from light scatter and the material of the screen being used?


How does the ABL affect proper calibration?


The i1 display is VERY inaccurate for multiple facets of calibration, but it is certainly a fine tool and better than eye balling or using something like DVE by itself. It is important for one know know and understand its limitations to get the best results from the tool
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwolf4k
I think they are trying to go for the best HDTV period, against LCD and Plasma.


We will see in the shoot out.
if anything Pioneer proved that you can't only sell extremely high end TV's and expect to stay in business
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism
Curious, how does attaching the i1 Display to the projector lens do anything? It is not taking into account ambient light, particularly that from light scatter and the material of the screen being used?


How does the ABL affect proper calibration?


The i1 display is VERY inaccurate for multiple facets of calibration, but it is certainly a fine tool and better than eye balling or using something like DVE by itself. It is important for one know know and understand its limitations to get the best results from the tool
The color Muki is similar but different. Don't buy it. I only included because there are hardly any reviews.

For projectors, the i1 Display Pro comes with a female tripod mount. Point the meter at the center of the projector screen from 1-2 ft back.

For flat panels the meter rests/couples lightly to the screen so calibration can be done even in ambient light.


A display MUST have linear light output from black to white with full field test patterns. Plasmas do not.


The x-rite software automates the process. The consumer just selects a few settings like D65 or native whitepoint. Even a novices will get excellent results as the software calculates the mathematical transforms. X-rite has video tutorials included with the meter/software.


You now have enough info to proceed on you own - and spread the word too.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun
I always view and evaluate the latest technology with a lot of experience and a heavy BS filter engaged.

One cannot trust dealers in general as what they sell has always been the best. One cannot trust the advice here at AVS which frequently leads down obsessive dead-end paths. For example, no one should be buying large edge lit LCD displays.

Sharp is taking advantage of this consumer awareness and uses full backplane LED arrays, but without local dimming.


Local dimming becomes much less important as the basic quality of the panel improves. Watching Sharp HDTVs over the years has been torturous experience until the last month. Their latest output is gorgeous.


In conclusion these are the two significant picture quality and price breakthroughs which a will take months and years for consumer to figure out.
So HiFiFun, would you not recommend the Sony 46HX729? That's the one I have been thinking about buying because it is a higher end TV but it is in better budget range. However, the main thing I'm looking at TVs is best gaming performance with minimal input lag. I liked Sony because I have a PS3 and the brand attracts me.

Here is the link: http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/sto...e-000012556590
 

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I don't have the time to go sort out the model differences, but one quiet secret is the 3D performance of the mid-rang Sony and Samsung (64xx-65xx) is inferior. So you are not getting a good deal. (Note: CR also confirms).
http://www.hometheater.com/content/s...cd-hdtv-page-3


I think the Sharps game mode has very low lag, but again i don't have the time to investigate.


I care most of blacks, whites, contrast, optical/energy efficiency and thus a high level of 3D brightness. Low daytime reflections. This allows the full-rez active shutter displays to be as bright as the half-rez passive systems.

If this is true (i have to wait a few days for the 735 to be delivered) then their is no reason to go passive 3D any more. Hello?


Consumers can watch compelling 3D in their family room during the daytime.


Sharps advances in several technologies is now paying off and they are charging the right price (to fend off the Chinese). I'm first in line!

I saw Tangled in 2D at home with my calibrated JVC RS1 with 12K:1 contrast. While close, I actually preferred the floating light night scenes on sharp 735. The had more pop. The Panasonic vt25 in 3D was just to dim with the dark areas of these beautiful night scenes.
 
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