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So whats gonna be the Hi-Def format? Blu-Ray or HD-DVD?

2312 Views 34 Replies 22 Participants Last post by  CKNA
What is the current thought on this new "beta vs. VHS" with Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD?

Seems like Blu-Ray might have more capacity and be technically superior and may even be to market faster, but I am not sure if people will go for the funky looking discs. There is too much change involved with that. All drive/player mechanisms have to be completely re-done, new jewel cases, storage furniture may not work, etc.

The manafacturers seem split about 50/50. I wasn't into HT during the VHS/Beta thing...

So just wondering what the thoughts are.

I want my HD-DVD with HDMI output :)
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I have not seen HD-DVD at work but I have seen the Blu-Ray player at Sonystyle in NY. It is awesome. The PQ is just out of the world.

Blu-Ray- bring it on.
Blu-Ray is better, and is available now, at least in Japan and for a price. HD-DVD is doomed to fail! Why? Well for one an HD-DVD disc can hold between 15 and 20 gigs. What about Blu-Ray? Drool over this:

A single-layer disc can fit 23.3GB, 25GB or 27GB.

A dual-layer disc can fit 46.6GB, 50GB or 54GB.

That's right, 54 gigs on a DVD sized disc. That is all sorts of terrific.

Here's the thing. Both formats use MPEG-2 compression. The reason for the existence of these technologies is High Definition content, which takes up quite a bit of space. With MPEG-2, you are able to lower the quality in order to fit more video in a given amount of space. This is great for cramming several episodes of television shows on a disc. Or you can raise the quality of the video (and audio), and simply have less video on the disc. So, the question is, how much space does your standard movie need? From the Blu-Ray FAQ:

How much video can you record on a Blu-ray Disc?

Over 2 hours of high-definition television (HDTV) on a 27GB disc.

About 13 hours of standard-definition television (SDTV) on a 27GB disc.

What this means is your average movie is going to take up 27GB of space. Oops. HD-DVD only has 15GB. Looks like they'll have to lower the quality to fit that movie on the disc. Therefore, Blu-Ray will almost certainly be superior in both video and audio quality.
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Still way too early in this ballgame. Feels like Betamax vs. VHS. I'm sure plenty of people were praising Betamax early on and going into it and many still feel to this day it was superior to VHS, but VHS ended up winning. FWIW.

That being said, Blu-Ray has had some good news and nice momentum these past couple of months, but as we all know in the world of consumer electronics, things can change on a dime in no time!
If this is similar to Betamax versus VHS, does it mean that the tortoise (HD-DVD) will eventually win against the hare (Blu-Ray)?
My money's on Blu-ray

More big companies are in the Blue-ray camp. Sony (worlds largest comsumer elect company), Mats (2nd largest, Panasonic etc), JVC, Philips (dominates Euro market), Dell, HP and many other smaller companies.

HD-DVD...2 big backers, NEC and Toshiba and some others.

Sony's has a large movie library and their recent take over of a large movie studio (MGM?) means they have a very strong offering for media right from the start. But HD-DVD camp has I think Warner/20th fox, and Disney (others?). Also with the Sony's PS2 replacement due out which will have Blu-ray, this will flood the market with this tech. The HD-DVD guys still dont have any products near being release for the public. The intitial capacities are s-sided discs are 25gb for Blu-ray and 20gb for HD-DVD. Blu-ray is already available in read/write devices and HD-DVD is currently a read only. So if Sony dont screw this up like they did with Batamax...bets are that Blu-ray will be the Hi-def format. Maybe they can make dual format hi-def players...like the DVD-r/+r burners, but then that would be ideal...but then $$$$ is the what each campanies' bottom line and that will determine the ultimate decision as to what format will dominate.
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Originally posted by megamii
If this is similar to Betamax versus VHS, does it mean that the tortoise (HD-DVD) will eventually win against the hare (Blu-Ray)?
That's the whole point. No one knows. Certainly Tinker and others make very compelling arguments. No question about it: In the here and now, Blu-Ray is winning. But...we're still very early in this ballgame to declare an outright winner imho.
Thanks for the feedback. I still think the world may not be ready for those funky cartridges :). Remember CD caddys? How people detested them?
Em, dual layer HD-DVD discs will raise the capacity to 30GB. They will not have to lower the quality to fit a movie on a dis, as one poster writes.

I believe the studios, not the consumer, will ultimately decide which format wins - they can use existing DVD production facilities to make HD-DVD. I read it is a 5-minute setting change between DVD and HD DVD manufacturing with a 90 percent plus production yield - Dual Layer- without significant modification to existing DVD manufacturing equipment. Blu-ray manufacturing is more complicated due to the new physical characteristics of the disc and will cost more.
I think that unless the movie industry totally refuses or rejects one format over the other, we are going to see both formats in the market place to fight it out. If they continue "fighting" long enough, then universal players will appear. Currently (only from everything I've read) Blue-Ray could be victorious in my opinion despite additional manufacturing costs. However, I strongly feel it's still to early to determine a clear "winner".
Originally posted by Wesley Hester
I think that unless the movie industry totally refuses or rejects one format over the other, we are going to see both formats in the market place to fight it out. If they continue "fighting" long enough, then universal players will appear. Currently (only from everything I've read) Blue-Ray could be victorious in my opinion despite additional manufacturing costs. However, I strongly feel it's still to early to determine a clear "winner".
Based on this, I think it's going to be a lot like the way SACD and DVD-A currently are now. I think the way the market is currently for those two is an excellent foreshadowing of things to come, generally, for how Blu Ray and HD-DVD will be handled.
I vote for Blu-Ray just because it sounds cooler. If they would have named HD-DVD something like Xtreme DVD, then I might have voted for it.

HD-DVD format is cheaper to make since its compatible with the existing DVD factories also no cartridge makes it simpler too. So the DVD producers would prefer HD-DVD over the cartridge Blu-Ray format.
I think with HD DVD using the better Microsoft codec, they can fit any movie on one disk at very high quality. The MPEG-2 compression argument is absolete.

The reason Beta died instead of VHS for consumer use (betamax still is used in studio recording and production, albeit different tape size and so on) is not because one is a better technology over another. In fact, many of you know that beta yielded higher resolution.

My sense is that it is too early to tell who wins. I doubt that both will survive in the long run. The ultimate survivor will not be based on superior technology or storage capacity. Rather, just how much content will be on the format. In otherwords content is kind and not the platform.

Just as "tinker" suggested in the earlier posting, Sony controlling significant content library does add strength to the Blu-Ray format. It is Sony who lost the betamax war to VHS - clearly lessons learned. However there are lots of new contents being created and convergence of HTPC, game console and other aspect may play a role as well.

just my two cents.

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The Widescreen Review magazine I just received has a great article regarding a presentation of the HD-DVD technology with Q&A. They have a strong case too I must admit now.

Like mgkg3 and many others have already stated, "too early to tell."
Some poster above gave wrong information between blu ray and AOD (HD-DVD).

Both Blu ray and AOD supports all 3 codecs, (MPEG-2, MPEG-4, WMV9 *VC1*).

Another person is correct that HD-DVD have 30 Gbytes dual layers, not 20 like someone posted above.

To me, I prefer Blu Ray for the most simple reason of all, its 27 Gbytes single layer and 50 Gbytes dual layers.

since both formats can be backward compatible with DVD and CD discs, and both supports all 3 codecs (WMV9, MPEG-4, and MPEG-2), there is no doubt I chose Blu Ray.

Who cares about the manufacturing cost. Most new stuffs that came out are expensive, but the price will fall as times goes by. I don't see how this will hurt big name studios since they have deep pockets.

Unlike VHS versus Beta, where VHS can record up to 2 hours in SP mode with 240 lines of resolution while Beta can only record 90 minutes with about 330 lines if I am not incorrect since these stuffs are before my time.

90 minutes is okay for most video back then that aren't lenghty. But its a good thing consumer go VHS because of its 2 hours storage because many movies are longer than 90 minutes nowadays, not to mention the ads and stuff which makes it longer.
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The DVD forum has endorsed HD-DVD, but that is probably because they won't have to retool their production facilities.

The single layer limitation is an issue - won't consumers be irritated if they have to wait for the player to change sides in the middle of a movie, like they did with laserdiscs? I think that's a lot more important than a new fangled cartridge.

Given two high quality competing formats, I think that issue will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Sony has been smart about buying MGM and lining up a ****load of manufacturers on their side early on, that will help them fight the factory cost issue.

If HD-DVD had gotten off the ground sooner, I'd say that Blue-Ray would have an uphill battle.

No one mentions Pioneer is on the Blue-Ray bandwagon. I think this is important because they are the only manufacturer with a high speed digital audio connection to have taken a side.

I'm bet my money on blue-ray.
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I will probably import the first Bluray machine witrh HDMI/DVI and I-Lin and so will probably be looking to Pioneer or Sony (Remember Sony supports Firewire too).

Heres some recent info:

Noticed something rather interesting in this link. The Pioneer BD PC Drive will read all formats and write BD AND DVD-RAM. Ive always liked DVD-RAM as hardy and quick backup media. The thing is Pioneer have not supported DVD-RAM in the past and I would guess they are using a Panasonic pickup.
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