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While I'm still awaiting the delivery of my Panamorph...could some of you lucky few post pictures of your set-ups. It would really help those of us that are technically challenged better understand the installation process. I personally would be interested in any pics involving ceiling mounted projectors.


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Hey, great pic!!! Thanks for taking the effort to post one; I think this is the first pic I've seen of an in-use Panamorph... What is the vertical distance from where your bracket is attached to the ceiling to the bottom-most extent of the tilted lens itself?


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if i understand your question properly, about 9-1/4" at the moment. the lens could be dropped another 1/2" or so on it's mount, or could be raised about 3-1/2". (i have it near the bottom of it's travel) hope that helps...
 

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Way cool! If they were only available in anodized white.....
 

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Packlet - thank you for the great pic. I also have a Plus UP-1100 and am considering the Panamorph.


How much does the Panamorph change the placement or position of your projected image image? In other words did you need to move your screen up or down and how much.


Many thanks, Reed.
 

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my projector's lens is about 6" from the ceiling and

the image top is about 27" from the ceiling. i did not move my screen at all, but had to tilt my (previously level)projector UP by about 4-5 degrees to maintain the same image location and achieve close to the appropriate compression.


check out my post in this thread for details: http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/008089.html


[This message has been edited by packlet (edited 08-16-2001).]
 

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Thanks -- you saved me a lot of work -- I think I can jury-rig something to mount the panamorph outside my hushbox. How far in front of the projector lens is the panamorph?


Thanks again for the pics ---


Anyone else got some pics...looking for mounting ideas.


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sands,


the rearmost corner of the panny lens assembly is about 1/2" from the plane of the projector lens. i have an opening on the closet side of the wall big enuf to stick the body of the projector into the wall, so my lens comes

to about 1/2" from the living room side of the wall, and the panny is pretty much right up against the wall.


hope that helps...


btw: if you plan to use panny with non-dila projector (more specifically, any projector with a negative tilt built-in) be prepared for larger than expected image drop OR greater than expected keystone distortion. take your pick... :-(
 

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My Dwin has a native 6" drop and I allowed this in my hushbox set-up (ceiling mounting height). Some might have to change the projector mounting height to allow for the drop otherwise as is normal when angling your projector you will introduce keystone.


We found that the Panamorph doesn't introduce any keystone of its own. Keystone only applies if you tilt your projector. This will happen if your mounting height is not correct in relationship to your screen. We always kept the projectors straight and raised (ceiling mount) or lowered (floor mount) the projector thus avoiding keystone added by tilting the projector and trying to force the image up or down.


This is the same as if you mounted the projector at the wrong height without a Panamorph "you will get keystone".

We saw no keystone added by the Panamorph.


DavidW
 

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david,


your point is well made: the panamorph does not introduce any keystone of it's own.


HOWEVER, the panny (752) is designed to provide same-height compression to 1.78 for projectors whose native 4x3 image is at the same height as the lens (ie: no built-in tilt.)


This means that if you currently have a level-mounted projector whose image falls below the height of the lens in ceiling-mount configuration (like my UP-1100 and countless others,) you will need to tilt the projector UP to maintain

image height, thus introducing keystone, JUST AS IF you tilted the projector up without the panny.


my projector was previously mounted perfectly level, with the top of the native 4x3 image ~12" lower than the projector's lens and zero (i mean ZERO) keystone distortion. i set this up in accordance with the LT-100 (clone) manual at http://support.nectech.com/Vsd/dlp/lt100/lt100.pdf)

my throw is about 203" onto a 49x87" screen starting ~27" from ceiling. my lens is about 6" from the ceiling.


this doesn't seem like a strange configuration, afaik.


i had to tilt my projector up about 4 degrees to keep the

16x9 image in the same location (as using the projector's 16x9 mode.) this causes the top of the image to be more than 1" wider than the bottom. significant, imho.


i have 9' ceiling and cannot raise my projector any higher.

if i could lower my screen by 20" to eliminate the keystone forced by the panny (which i can't,) the bottom of my image would be ~12" off the floor - too low.


To me, it seems like the panny was designed for the high-end DILA's (with their zero tilt), not us average joe DLP owners...


fwiw: shawn claims to be mulling this issue over. he may be humoring me (and i wouldn't blame him, as i'm apparently the first to voice such concerns) but i believe this will prove to be serious problem for widespread panny acceptance among the non-DILA crowd...


ok, call me <whatever> but that's just too much keystone for me...


your mileage may vary. and as much as i'm bitching about the keystone issue, the overall effect of the panny is well worth what i paid for it a year ago, but i can't really recommend it at the retail/OEM price, unless you have a DILA or some other projector with ZERO built-in tilt.
 

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I have long been of the opinion that a Pannie install would probably require me to remount my PJ for a perfect setup, what I am most worried about is maintaining a setup that will allow both Pannie use (DVD widescreen) and 4:3 (SDTV and computer games) on my 16x9 screen.. Only the arrival of the Pannie will tell me if I succeed (hurry up Shawn http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif )..


A question on your setup... I am of the understanding that an inverted PJ with an inverted Pannie mount (such as I think you have there, I cant se your PJ) should create a situation where the Pannie shrinks the image from the top down (eg bottom aligned 16x9) is this correct ??


For me this is the opposite of my desire but.. I am assuming that simply mounting the Pannie in a right way up (table mount) position will allow me to shrink bottom up and so all I must do is construct a shelf below and in front of the PJ to accommodate the slider...


Could you please give me an indication if my guesses are right and allay and lingering fears ??


Plus as I have had some hobby robotics experience I am keen to look into the idea of electronic actuator / moving mount setup that I could serial or X10 control... Hide the whole shebang in the Hushbox and automate control with Girder / Pronto.. again I will need to hold the actual product before I can really visualize what is doable..


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I was wondering the same thing. I have an LT100 and because of room limitations I have already mounted the projector so that it is tilted up a few degrees in an inverted setup. I was thinking that we could mount the pannie in its bracket upside down such that it will shift the image upward and I can level out my projector.


Has anyone tried this? I will definately try it when I receive the pannie.




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phreddy:


the bottom of my 4x3 image (panny slid out of the way,) is

about 2" HIGHER than the bottom of the 'morphed 16x9, so they are almost bottom aligned, but not quite. (i prefer to watch 4x3 centered in the 16x9 screen, so this doesn't really concern me...)


gary:


i think you'll find yourself in the same boat as me. i've wondered what happens if the panny is mounted upside down, but haven't tried it...


david:


good info. my point is just to alert folks that that they will need to (a) move their projector up, (b) screen down, and/or (c) tilt their projector (and live with resulting keystone) in order to acheive proper compression with ceiling mounted negative-tilt projectors like mine or yours. you are lucky enuf to have the vertical height for solution (a).


i was clueless enuf to not understand all this until i had the panny in hand. the key to grokking what the panny will do to your image is to take your projector's built-in tilt into account when usign the cygnus calculator...


(NOTE: the UP-1100 actually has a -3.4 degree tilt: inverse TAN of 12"/204" - not the 4-5 degrees i mentioned before)


i now wish i had known to order my greyhawk with leader (top mask) longer than the standard 12", so i could at least partially compensate with (b)...


i guess i'll experiment with tilting the screen down a little by pulling the bottom corners down and back somehow while i wait to hear if shawn has any other solutions in the works...

 

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I've got a table mount. I've tried the Pannie both ways, it does give one more flexibility in placement.


I've also noted that the Pannie heats up quite a bit if you have a front exhaust. There also seems to be some interior dust accumulating. It would be nice if Shawn posted some cleaning instructions. My guess is that one could screw up the coatings pretty quickly trying to clean it.


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So ceiling mount = shrink down and table mount = shrink up.. I am aware that its not perfectly bottom (or top) aligned due to image shift but my Davis is an off axis projector anyway so zooming between 4:3 and 16x9 (top aligned on the panel) creates a 4 inch extra drop anyway


I take it from the above comments that applying a table mount position to a ceiling mounted PJ should still give me no extra problems and a shrink up arrangement... Optics are, after all, just optics it should not care what light is coming in it will still function the same way...


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Quote:



packlet

david,


your point is well made: the panamorph does not introduce

any keystone of it's own.



That was my only point.

Its your install creating the keystone not the "actual Panamorph". I think that the wording made it seem as though the Panamorph introduces Keystone, when it definitely doesn't. I did not want to argue about your setup or your problem, I just did not want anyone thinking the Panamorph creates Keystone when I have used it and I definitely

know it doesn't.


I thought I would follow up with more about my setup.


I have a ceiling mounted Dwin Transvision Dlp and the top of the 4:3 image (screen) is 6" below the lens. If I did not raise the projector I could have tilted the Dwin to keep the image up, but I did not want to induce any Keystone so I raised the projector which avoided Keystone. Of course I am lucky in that I have 12 ft ceilings in the house and my main CRT theater has great 15 ft ceilings, so up or down is no major drama for me even though I do not need that much.


I have long had my screen setup so that the center of the screen viewing height is at seated eye level (43"), I do this for less neck strain (I hate looking up for a 3 hr movie), and by it being at eye level it gives me a total captive screen view. It works very effective while seated.

I am now using a Grayhawk that is 84x47 (I changed from a 100x56). Most of the home theaters I have been to have the screen way too high and it is uncomfortable and very tiring for extended viewing.



By the same token I can see your drama. Your screen can not be 12" from the floor and with only 6" to the ceiling you have basically no where to move. Perhaps you could get some more out of that 6" to the ceiling and lower your screen a little ? This may reduce the tilt even just a little and perhaps the keystoning may be less noticeable.

Perhaps I am wrong, but your projector does seems to have an

extreme amount of down wall throw angle. This unit is obviously designed for showing native 4:3 while mounted to 8-9 ft ceilings.


Obviously you need a higher mounting position to avoid tilting your projector (which introduces keystone), but it looks like you can not go very far due to room.

You could try the P751 which had 0.048 vs 0.081 (P752). It could be the answer, although I think that Cygnus produced very few of these and they may not even have them ?


DavidW




[This message has been edited by David Wallis (edited 08-18-2001).]
 
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