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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
New construction in progress on 4400 square foot home in MD. Integrator (Guardian Home Technologies) affiliated with the builder only offers a deluxe package of an On-Q lyriQ Single Source Four Zone set-up onqlegrand.com/products/AU7400 which includes the Klipsch speakers (8 total). At a price of slightly over $3500 to install, I'm not too thrilled with the options available from the integrator. In fact, I know that's a rip off!!! The single source option itself is ridiculous at that cost. The could at least give me a 4 source, 8 zone panel. I'm not sure what else can be done myself or with another integrator in the MD area.


They do offered pre-wiring, but just for the LyriQ system (using Cat5) at a cost of about $1600. I'm fairly skilled in installing my own speakers, so no problems with that. But I'm trying to find out if I can somehow take their pre-wiring, and somehow utilize the Sonos as I would really like to have in-ceiling speaker set-up in the house.


or


is it logical to just use Sonos (or a similar wireless system) throughout the entire home with no ceiling speakers and tell the integrator to take a hike?
 

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I'm building a new place and just planning on homerunning in-ceiling speaker wiring from all rooms, bathrooms, halls, etc. to the basement where I will put in structured media housings and a server rack for tech and A/V.


I have Sonos now - and love it in my house via wireless... But my initial move in plan is to simply put all the Sonos units in the basement on shelfs on the rack and connect speaker wires to the Sonos ZP-100's I have - so I keep the zoning.


I want absolutely no keypads in my house - no need with Sonos' great iPhone/iTouch application. I think volume controls, etc. are outdated with today's tech.


I'd like to put in place a heavier-duty system (a A/V Matrix, etc.) in time - but having all the wiring homerun (properly and well-labeled!) will give you the flexibility to swap out stuff as it changes.


The advice I got was to run 14/4 wire to all - and also through a wall-box (with a loop of 12"-18" of wire - I'm putting these in but having them drywalled over just in case I have to relent and do keypads for some reason), along with Cat5e or Cat6 control wire - that covers your bases audio wise for quite some time...


Though it all gets quite challenging not yet knowing exactly what furntiture will go where upon move-in... and then how the better-half will re-arrange it the next month, year, etc. LOL
 

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I'm doing something similar, but for different reasons. i have a 20 year old whole house system. The main unit is starting to fail. What I'm doing is


Itercepting the line outs to the speakers and using a speakercraft 12 channel amp to create multi-zones with sonos. Basically the amp lets you source each speaker from either the main bus or from an individual input. I'm breaking the house into four zones (common areas, master bed/bath, media room and guest rooms). Each zone is sourced by a z-80 or z100 (its easier to buy bundles with both than a bunch of z80's) and powered by the amp. This way I can use the sonos remote (or even better my ipod touch/iphone) to control the tunes and zones.


I also have a small FM radio that's always on (we only listen to NPR) and a CD player and the TV receiver as the line in sources. So basically I have whole house music/internet radio through the sonos, I can listen to the game, radio or my latest cd (before i rip it) pretty easily.


One thing that I would recommend though is that you get separate hard wired volume controls for each room. It can be a pain in the ass to try and find the remote when the phone rings while its very easy to walk to the wall and shut the sound down. This also lets people turn off the music in the guest room if they want to sleep etc. Balanced volume controls are only about $20 each.


K
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The issue I'm running into with the integrator is that they're telling me that they will only pre-wire for the LyriQ audio system which is strictly Cat5e. I don't have an issue with the Cat5e runs, but want 14/4 cable run as well. They're being a pain in the a** about it.
 

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I would do one of two things.

1 - Get them to run the cat5e and after the fact you come in and run your 4 conductor to the keypad locations before dry wall goes up.

2 - FIRE THEM! If they wont do what you want now or they are being inflexible

I wouldn't think twice about getting rid of them, especially if they are limited to OnQ products (not there there is anything wrong with them but there are so many other options)


I would fire them personally, you are the one paying!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by captaincondor /forum/post/15501903


I would do one of two things.

1 - Get them to run the cat5e and after the fact you come in and run your 4 conductor to the keypad locations before dry wall goes up.

2 - FIRE THEM! If they wont do what you want now or they are being inflexible

I wouldn't think twice about getting rid of them, especially if they are limited to OnQ products (not there there is anything wrong with them but there are so many other options)


I would fire them personally, you are the one paying!

I agree with #2.


Running wire with the walls down is easy. It is totaly unacceptable that they won't try and set up a system the way you want it. Its not like you are asking for anything particularly unusual. I would bring this up with the builder as well and discuss how dissapointed you are with this guy (remember he recommends these guys) . Unless you have some sort of exclusive arrangement with him you are free to sub out this job as you see fit. I doubt that either one of them can afford to lose a client in this economy.


K
 

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Depending on the zones, generally I would think good quality in-ceiling speakers are a must. I have a 7 zone sonos system driven by B&K amps, and Marantz AV amp. Speakers are a mix .... boston acoustics, paradym, sonance, PSB ... 6 pair in-ceiling, 3 pair bookshelf, 2 pair floor standing.


Very pleased with the sonos .... and yes the ipod touch app is GREAT. Make sure to wire the speakers in.


Re: fire/retain ... ensure getting in alternative contractors is a reasonable option .... availability ? ... would guess that economy suggests others are readily available. They wouldnt last long with me if they only put in one system .... with perhaps dated technologies.....


Cheers

sd
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
so now after some arm pulling, I've been offered this option



Pre-Wire for one pair of speakers w/ pre-wire for volume control no equip. non term - $265

Pre-Wire for one pair of speakers terminated w/ binding post no pre-wire vol. cont. - $265



That's still kind of crazy though. Now I just want to do it myself and say "screw em"
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by captaincondor /forum/post/15501903


I would do one of two things.

1 - Get them to run the cat5e and after the fact you come in and run your 4 conductor to the keypad locations before dry wall goes up.

2 - FIRE THEM! If they wont do what you want now or they are being inflexible

I wouldn't think twice about getting rid of them, especially if they are limited to OnQ products (not there there is anything wrong with them but there are so many other options)


I would fire them personally, you are the one paying!

The OP may not have that luxury.


Given the integrator, it's very likely that the builder is someone like Pulte, KB, etc., and having been down this path with Pulte before, you have ZERO sway over integration solutions.

http://www.rangeramerican.net/buildingahome.aspx


I almost went insane trying to get the whole house audio install I wanted from Pulte's local partner here in Atlanta. Pre-wiring for whole house audio was not offered--not an option. I was given the same basic OnQ turnkey solution option, take it or leave it. The *only* option was for 4 rooms or for 8 rooms.


Don't like it? Don't buy the house, I was told--this wasn't custom construction, this was Pulte, and they have rules. Very, very frustrating.


Granted, given the building climate, you may eek out some modicum of reasonableness with the builder/integrator. That said, 24 months ago, I was told flat-out by the owner of integration firm that they would lose their (very valuable) Pulte contract if they did anything "off spec" from the extremely limited solutions Pulte was offering via them. Heck, I couldn't even get a nicer OnQ system, even though the integrator offered it--Pulte wouldn't allow it. The best I could get was to buy the basic OnQ package through Pulte, then re-hire the integrator to come in and rip out the basic package and install the nicer package *after* closing. So, pay for two systems and get one. Nice!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by amillians /forum/post/15533146


The OP may not have that luxury.


Given the integrator, it's very likely that the builder is someone like Pulte, KB, etc., and having been down this path with Pulte before, you have ZERO sway over integration solutions.

http://www.rangeramerican.net/buildingahome.aspx


I almost went insane trying to get the whole house audio install I wanted from Pulte's local partner here in Atlanta. Pre-wiring for whole house audio was not offered--not an option. I was given the same basic OnQ turnkey solution option, take it or leave it. The *only* option was for 4 rooms or for 8 rooms.


Don't like it? Don't buy the house, I was told--this wasn't custom construction, this was Pulte, and they have rules. Very, very frustrating.



Granted, given the building climate, you may eek out some modicum of reasonableness with the builder/integrator. That said, 24 months ago, I was told flat-out by the owner of integration firm that they would lose their (very valuable) Pulte contract if they did anything "off spec" from the extremely limited solutions Pulte was offering via them. Heck, I couldn't even get a nicer OnQ system, even though the integrator offered it--Pulte wouldn't allow it. The best I could get was to buy the basic OnQ package through Pulte, then re-hire the integrator to come in and rip out the basic package and install the nicer package *after* closing. So, pay for two systems and get one. Nice!

sounds exactly what I'm dealing with here in MD
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NahLaterz /forum/post/15533671


sounds exactly what I'm dealing with here in MD

I'm sorry to hear that. There are a couple of ways to play it. Some of it depends on your access. If you have an attic and a basement/crawlspace you should be able to run a lot of this your self (depending on your comfort level) in which case you can tell them to take a hike.


You could also bring by another electrician/HT guy to look at your space and give you an estimate of what it would take to do this after you take possession. My guess is it will be cheaper than even the new rate.


You can go with the guys new rate (of those choices I'd get the one with the volume control).


You can also play hard ball. My guess is you have not payed the guy in full for the job yet. You can simply withhold your next payment until this problem is resolved. This runs the risk of alienating your contractor but it also demonstrates how important it is to you (and it should be pretty important if you choose to take this step). While they can make you pay eventually its an expensive and painful process.


If it were me I'd save myself the aggravation of dealing with these guys and either do it myself or hire someone else to put it in aftermarket. You'll sleep better and if MD economy is in similar shape to SC anybody you hire will be very attentive. I had to do some moderate renovation a couple of years ago and I'm building an addition right now and its a night and day different how well I'm being treated now. My guess is you could open up the phone book and find several HT, security guys or electricians who would kill for your business.


One of the nice things about sonos is you don't need everything in one location so if your walls are tough you can just use a bunch of z100/120's. With the z-100's you get the added advantage of being able to bridge network devices on the mesh network.


good luck


K
 
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