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Discussion Starter #1
I just had an opportunity to view these three projectors. Please note that the dealer would not allow me to demo them at home so I had no choice but to try and form opinions about these units with a salesperson breathing down my neck.


Sony 11HT


Boy was I disappointed. In fairness to Sony I should qualify this opinion as my ability to set up this unit was limited and I was only able to spend an hour with it. The unit was also brand new with less than an hour on it.


I found the colors to be very good but the picture seemed flat and soft, even with sharpness turned up which I don't recommend, especially, when compared to the other two units. I found the black level better than the 10HT but not impressive. In cinema mode (750 ANSI Lumens) the projector seemed too dark, but black level was, of course better. Increasing the brightness and/or switching modes (1000 ANSI Lumens)resulted in better detail but at the expense of blacks. I was not bothered by screen door on this unit, perhaps because it seemed so dark, and I did not see it past 12 feet. I don't know if this was a defective unit but based on my experience with the Sanyo, this unit did not compare. The vendor, whose name I won't mention, because I am not impressed with them, stated the price was $11,000.00 Canadian, but was flexible.



SIM 2 200DM


Very nice unit. RGBRGB is definitely an improvement. The unit is designed to display DVD and will display 480P without any scaling. It registers at 640 x 480 in the menu. Notwithstanding the lower resolution, the image is nice. Excellent blacks and color for a DLP. The picture is clear and sharp. A pleasure to watch. If one's not interested in HDTV then this would be a great unit for a reasonable price. The only shortcoming was the unit's noise. The fan and/or color wheel pitch was quite high. I am sensitive to noise and I would definitely want a hushbox for this unit. The vendor stated they haven't sold any yet and it is currently priced at a ridiculous $18,000.00, although I am advised that this price will change as a result of the newer unit coming out, according to the salesperson, in 2 weeks. He didn't, however, know what the new unit was called or any of its specs. I assume it is the 300.



Yamaha DPX-1


The Yamaha was a pleasant surprise. First it has nice features such as DVI input and lens shift. It is extremely quiet, especially for a DLP with no high frequency noise. It is slightly quieter than the Sony and much much quieter than the SIM 2. One peculiarity and this may have explained partially why its picture appeared night and day to the Sony, was its through distance. From 15 feet it only produced a maximum screen size of 60 inches wide. The manual indicated at 17 feet it should achieve a 120 inch diagonal screen. There is no way the unit I saw could possible produce that large an image if we moved it back another 2 feet. The Sony had a very short throw distance and produced a 102 inch wide screen at approximately 13 feet. The image of the Yamaha, therefore, was much smaller than that of the Sony.


The contrast, black level and color was very good. Although the color was not quite as good as the Sony, especially in the yellows, it had a much more three dimensional image than the Sony and comparable to the SIM 2.


I am not that sensitive to rainbow and did not, therefore, look for it or notice it. I'm afraid once I see it It will never go away.


I enjoyed watching this unit and would have given it more consideration if the 16:9 DLP chip was not coming out in the near future and if it wasn't priced at $15,000.00 CDN. I expect that a much better price could be negotiated, especially once the 16:9 units start shipping.


For what its worth, the salesperson said he preferred the Sony over the others because he liked its softer picture and felt it was more film like. He found the DLP units to be too "computerized or digital" looking.


I would be very interested to read other's opinions of the 11HT because I expected a lot more from it. If this is all the unit has to offer, those who bought the 10HT or even better the Sanyo PLV 60 and saved the money did well.
 

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Thanks for a such an informative review. Your news on the 200DM noise level is disappointing, looking to upgrade from a VPL400QM I was looking for a super quiet projector. Also it sounds like the 11HT isn't worth the extra expense over a 10HT - there must be some major improvement or why would Sony release it?


The other thing I just can't understand is the price difference between the Sim2 and Sony. Here in the UK prices are high for Sim2 projectors as they won't let the "sell 'em cheap" mail order firms have them.


How did the brightness of the Sim2 and Sony compare?
 

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Wow, what a coincidence. i just got back from my HT shop in Tokyo (AVAC) where I had hoped to see the Sharp Z9000 again (with my wife this time). Unfortunately they had sent it off to their yokohama branch for a dual with the new sony11HT there.


Instead they were comparing the Sony 11HT with the Yamaha DPX-1. Knuck, I agree wiht your thoughts exactly. The Sony really can not compare even with the Yamaha. Your points on sharpness of picture , 3D feeling etc are right on the money.


I still feel, however, that the Sharp V5000 i saw 2 days ago is even better than the Yamaha. The picture seemed to have mor4e force and the colours seemed more lively.


Cheers

Adam
 

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Hi,

I am sorry to say I dont agree on the result from Canada.

I had a sample of the Sony 11HT, working side by side with a production unit of the Yamaha DPX-1, and found that the Yamaha can equal the performance of the Sony on DVD material.

But on regular analog OTA TV signals, the Yamaha was less than acceptable, you could not see even the commercials, and after a few minutes you prefer to switch of the unit, on the other side, the Sony giva a better image than what you get with a DVD signal.

The Sony is a product you can use in all your aplications, from DVD, to OTA TV, video games, etc, and for me the reference projector against all the other must be compared to ( for low cost products ).

Other point of view is that the Yamaha cost 2,2 times the price of a normal Sony 10HT, and about 2,0 or 1,8 times the new 11HT.

For the price of the Yamaha, you must compared it to the JVC D-ILA, G-15, who cost you less money and offers another level of performance. Even this unit with a Vigatec scaler, will cost little more than the Yamaha, and will give you a true electronic film experience.

Regarding the Seleco I cant say nothing better, at the moment all the units I got for review were so bad that I didnt accept them for demonstration purposes. They will come out in September with a new unit, lett see.

Best regards,

Julio
 

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Thats interesting Julio, Im afraid however that the sample I saw , which as you guessed was DVD, the Yamaha was much much better. Cant comment on TV signal yet.... but that is important. of course, as i said before, the sharp is much better than the yamaha.


Comments on the seleco are interesting, but they seem to be against most of the threads. has anyone else seen a TV signal through the selco ?


Cheers
 

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Knuck - Have you seen the Sanyo PLV-60 in action? Here in Winnipeg, I have been quoted about $8,800 for it, so I wonder whether there is any real point in considering the 11HT over this unit. At $11,000 it should have something going for it to justify the higher price.


The vendor has lent a PLV-60 to me since yesterday and I have been trying it out. It was on short notice so I have not been able to get my hands on a progressive DVD player. I may be able to get it back if my initial impressions are favourable. Anyway with a Toshiba 3109 I am having all kinds of trouble with "crawling" surfaces. If you pause, the image is posterized. I have not had the time to see how to fix this. However, when watching an HDTV signal on the Bell ExpressVu demo loop, I don't see any of these problems.


Compared to my 400Q, the image is very bright. This is especially noticeable on dark movies like Das Boot. I am probably going to need a few days with the unit to try and decide if I should upgrade, or wait for something else.


------------------

Kerry
 

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Kerry,


I don't think using a non progressive player will do justice to the Sanyo. The differences going from interlaced to progressive to HTPC are dramatic. At Creative Audio on Osborne they have a Marantz DLP setup and the change from interlaced to progressive is very noticable. However, there were still jaggies and artifact I found annoying (depending on source DVD). Last week I saw how well the HTPC solves some of those problems.


I am waiting to see how the PLV60 compares to 11HT. Where did you get the PLV from?


Mike
 

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Mike,


Yea, I am holding my judgement on this machine until I can see it with a Progressive player - likely the Panasonic RP91. The loaner is from an AV company here in Winnipeg - Pro-Image Presentation systems. The sales rep is Sasha Gielow (204) 783 8028. He is not that familiar with the technology but has been very accomodating with the loaner equipment. His e-mail is [email protected]


------------------

Kerry
 

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Knuck, you must have had a defective Seleco! I found it to be very quiet. In addition the picture quality (color accuracy, black level, clarity) was IMO far better than the Yamaha. Are you sure that it was recieving a progressive signal??


You must be totally immune to Rainbows because there are TONS of them on the Yamaha!!
 

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You should simply accept the internal de-interlacer and scaler in the Sanyo are not HT quality. Heck, neither are they in the much more expensive JVCs either. Basically, the on-board electronics in these projectors is good enough for business use, and range from pretty weak to just so-so.


Fortunately, almost all DLP, LCD and D-ILA projectors can really shine in HT use if that deficiency is addressed in your set up.


You know, we're in HT heaven here. I'm old enough to remember when a 21" black and white TV was a big sensation in the neighborhood. And later, watching the first color TV. Just since I've been interested in HT, I've seen it go from mega-bucks to affordable and today's affordable are considerably better than yesterday's mega-bucks.


I never thought I'd be able to watch really film-like movies on a big screen and listen to DTS soundtracks in my own house, and all for a total investment of under $20K. It doesn't get any better than this, but of course it will.


Life is good! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


Dan
 

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Hey, Dan, that's great--we got to see it all from the beginning. Remember when they announced which program would be broadcast in living color?


But top this one: I personally met Captain Video and watched him do a live show at the old Dumont network. What a trip!


I also have a vast collection of old TV shows, so if you're ever looking for something in particular, drop me a line. Especially if you run out of crayons for your Winky Dink set.


Cheers,

Peter M
 

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God, I can remember the Dumont network and there used to be Dumont TVs too. We had one.


Captain Video, eh? Not bad, but I was on the Howdy Doody show one time. Top that!


I'll tell you one thing. The resolution may have sucked and the pictures may have been black and white but the programming was vastly better than what is on today. And you didn't have 10 minutes of ads every half hour. We just watch the news and an occasional football game and that's it for broadcast TV these days around our house.


But we're going to check out the new Star Trek series on UPN, natch.


Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #16
kthacher


I have demoed the PLV 60 in my home. I had it for two days and viewed it through a quadscan, its own processor and an HTPC. I only was able to watch the Sony 11HT in the store where I spent about an hour with it with my own material and watched an NTSC satellite and DVD through its component inputs.


The Sony was brand new right out of the box, the Sanyo was the distributors demo with several hours on it. The Sanyo had a dead pixel, blue if I remember correctly, in the center of the screen, I did not detect dead pixels with the Sony. The Sanyo had dust particles the Sony did not. Based on my observations, the Sanyo had better detail and a more three dimensional image than the Sony. Color rendition on both units was excellent. The Sony appeared really flat.


If you don't have to have a 16:9 panel projector I would suggest you check out the Sanyo XP21n or XP30. I was very impressed with the XP30 and am going to order it tomorrow. The price just dropped on the unit and it is now around $10,400.00 CDN.


If you are interested, I posted my impression of the XP30 with pics at the following post:
http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/006937.html


UKDude


The Sony was in a room where for some reason the retailer had track lighting shining at the screen. The Sim 2 was in a room with pots directed away from the screen. The Sim 2, therefore appeared to handle ambient light better but this was probably more as a result of the lighting in the different rooms than the projectors. Both projectors could probably handle a limited amount of indirect light but to avoid a washed out look, a light controlled environment would be preferable.


Free


If the Sim2 you demoed was quiet then I either demoed a defective unit or you have a great tolerance to noise. The fan and/or color wheel had a high pitch not dissimilar to my old Davis DL450.


I am not susceptible to rainbow and I purposely do not scan the image to detect it. I figure if I don't look for it and it doesn't pop out at me then I won't be bothered by it. I do know the Yamaha does not use the new RGBRGB color wheel so I suspect if one is susceptible to rainbow they would see it. The Yamaha did, however have excellent contrast.


Dan H.


You say the internal de-interlacer and scaler are not HT quality on the Sanyo. I agree with you with respect to the PLV60 and XP21. I thought you had an XP30. Does your observations also apply to the XP30? I preferred both NTSC and component feeds from my Satellite receiver and DVD player directly to the XP30 than through the quadscan.
 

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Knuck:


I can't comment on the XP30. I here it is better but I'd be surprised if it is really good enough such that an outboard scaler would not be much better. But the proof is in the viewing.


Dan
 
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