[eieio]

as i've recently gone around researching on updating my various tv's at home, i noticed one trend: many sales staff are saying:


"...hey, Sony has really dropped the ball recently. everyone else is moving to local dimming, back lit LED's. Sony has only gone as far as edge lit LED's and, their standard is still the middle-of-the-road EX500 'value series'. there's nothing great about their EX500 line, nothing horrible either, but clearly nothing out of the ordinary. in fact, the EX500 is totally reminiscent of 2009 CCFL LCD's from last year! Sony's dropped the ball and Samsung, Sharp, LG, and even Vizio will likely out pace Sony in the better quality panel tv's in 2010 and 2011..."


May I ask the knowledgeable folks here on this forum if there's much truth to that? I can't help but come away with that feeling from sales staff after a month or so of intensive research to update myself.


By way of background and in the spirit of full disclosure, i have a 60XBR1 sxrd in my living room, and a 46EX500 in my bedroom (though i feel that i ought to have purchased the 55EX500 for my bedroom rather than the 46").


Thanks in advance.

 

[Tigerriot]

Most people on a forum like this would have a hard time believing it, but I played the whole Samsung Vs Sony game in 2009, and after going round and round, and returning several sets, I settled on a Vizio.


To my shock and awe their LED backlit models outperformed the Sony and Samsung models in almost every way possible. Viewing angles, etc.


My advice, as a true TV freak, is to buy a Vizio LED (preferably at Costco for the best price), and don't look back. I know I'm not.


It will blow your mind seeing what you can get and for what price. Makes me laugh to imagine the profit margins Sony and Samsung are pulling in on their current CCFL models.

 

[Holy bear]

I don't think Samsung and Sharp has "Local Dimming,back lit LED" sets either (2010 sets).

 

[westa6969]

The TRUE TOP TIERS for SONY have not even debuted yet so your question or statement is extremely premature!


BE3 hardly takes a backseat to anyone else's Video Processor BTW.

 

[westa6969]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerriot /forum/post/18234648


I settled on a Vizio.


To my shock and awe their LED backlit models outperformed the Sony and Samsung models in almost every way possible. Viewing angles, etc.


My advice, as a true TV freak, is to buy a Vizio LED (preferably at Costco for the best price), and don't look back. I know I'm not.


It will blow your mind seeing what you can get and for what price. Makes me laugh to imagine the profit margins Sony and Samsung are pulling in on their current CCFL models.

Ask yourself - Who builds Vizio components? Vizio doesn't. - they merely assemble crap they buy from others - AKA Philips in many incidences.


Where did you view any High End Sony Backlit LED Panels and are you actually saying they outperform a Triluminous RGB LED From Sony? I don't think so.


Recently visited a WalFART's and every Vizio looked like junk on their wall and so I don't know where your seeing these Holy Grail Vizio's..

 

[spyboy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 /forum/post/18235746


Ask yourself - Who builds Vizio components? Vizio doesn't. - they merely assemble crap they buy from others - AKA Philips in many incidences.

Westa, do you still have your 45 inch Sharp LCD? How much was that one?


How much was your 57 inch Sharp? How much are you willing to drop on a Sharp 65 S 1? I would guess you have close to $15,000 tied up in your LCDs.


Also, you are pretty clueless about Vizio. Vizio is running about even with Samsung as far as the number of panels they are delivering. That's right, Samsung and Vizio are running almost neck-and-neck in delivering the most LCD panels. Sony is back in the pack somewhere.


The guy who started Vizio is an entrepreneur who is now a multi-millionaire because he came up with a great idea and it is a true American success story.


As far as Vizio assembling crap, you are bass-ackwards. Consumer Reports now calls Vizio a top-tier brand.


And speaking from personal experience, they sell a truly fine 55 inch back-lit, local dimming LCD for ~$1,900. At my local Sams club, the 55 inch Vizio was stunning. It had the best picture quality of any set in the store.


PS Where exactly are Sony and Sharp with their 72 inch LCDs

 

[spyboy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by eieio /forum/post/18234627


as i've recently gone around researching on updating my various tv's at home, i noticed one trend: many sales staff are saying:


"...hey, Sony has really dropped the ball recently. everyone else is moving to local dimming, back lit LED's. Sony has only gone as far as edge lit LED's and, their standard is still the middle-of-the-road EX500 'value series'. there's nothing great about their EX500 line, nothing horrible either, but clearly nothing out of the ordinary. in fact, the EX500 is totally reminiscent of 2009 CCFL LCD's from last year! Sony's dropped the ball and Samsung, Sharp, LG, and even Vizio will likely out pace Sony in the better quality panel tv's in 2010 and 2011..."


May I ask the knowledgeable folks here on this forum if there's much truth to that? I can't help but come away with that feeling from sales staff after a month or so of intensive research to update myself.


By way of background and in the spirit of full disclosure, i have a 60XBR1 sxrd in my living room, and a 46EX500 in my bedroom (though i feel that i ought to have purchased the 55EX500 for my bedroom rather than the 46").


Thanks in advance.

Its a shame you didn't get the 55 inch Vizio 551 for your bedroom. The 551 can deliver a stunning picture. Best picture quality at my local Sams Club!!


You have it exactly right, with back-lighting and local dimming, Vizio is a leader at this point as others go to side-lit for appearance and cheapness.

 

[vitoandolini]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerriot /forum/post/18234648


Most people on a forum like this would have a hard time believing it, but I played the whole Samsung Vs Sony game in 2009, and after going round and round, and returning several sets, I settled on a Vizio.


To my shock and awe their LED backlit models outperformed the Sony and Samsung models in almost every way possible. Viewing angles, etc.


My advice, as a true TV freak, is to buy a Vizio LED (preferably at Costco for the best price), and don't look back. I know I'm not.


It will blow your mind seeing what you can get and for what price. Makes me laugh to imagine the profit margins Sony and Samsung are pulling in on their current CCFL models.

Are you comparing Vizio models with LED backlighting and local dimming to Sony and Samsung models with CCFL backlighting? If so, why? In terms of picture quality, both Sony and Samsung have LCD's with LED backlighting and local dimming which provide better PQ than any Vizio LCD. The Samsung CCFL backlit LN52B750 may even compare favorably to the Vizio's wih LED backlighting and local dimming. In terms of price, both Sony and Samsung have 2009 LCD's with CCFL backlighting that are cheaper than Vizio's 2009 LED backlit LCD's.

 

[vitoandolini]



Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 /forum/post/18235746


Ask yourself - Who builds Vizio components? Vizio doesn't. - they merely assemble crap they buy from others - AKA Philips in many incidences.


Where did you view any High End Sony Backlit LED Panels and are you actually saying they outperform a Triluminous RGB LED From Sony? I don't think so.


Recently visited a WalFART's and every Vizio looked like junk on their wall and so I don't know where your seeing these Holy Grail Vizio's..

I've never seen the Vizio XVT series at a Wal-Mart.

 

[Servicetech571]

Vizio is fine until they break. Good luck getting parts for them, the only thing we've been able to find is refurbished/used parts from 3rd party vendors. I never have seen a BRAND NEW part from Vizio.

 

[spyboy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Servicetech571 /forum/post/18236388


Vizio is fine until they break. Good luck getting parts for them, the only thing we've been able to find is refurbished/used parts from 3rd party vendors. I never have seen a BRAND NEW part from Vizio.

Not like the electrolytic capacitors people are putting in their Samsungs. People are using different voltage, OTC caps when they have to repair their Samsungs right after the warranty expires

The warranties for all these TVs say nothing about supplying new parts for warranty service.

 

[CHRISGEOFROMGREE]



Quote:
Originally Posted by eieio /forum/post/18234627


as i've recently gone around researching on updating my various tv's at home, i noticed one trend: many sales staff are saying:


"...hey, Sony has really dropped the ball recently. everyone else is moving to local dimming, back lit LED's. Sony has only gone as far as edge lit LED's and, their standard is still the middle-of-the-road EX500 'value series'. there's nothing great about their EX500 line, nothing horrible either, but clearly nothing out of the ordinary. in fact, the EX500 is totally reminiscent of 2009 CCFL LCD's from last year! Sony's dropped the ball and Samsung, Sharp, LG, and even Vizio will likely out pace Sony in the better quality panel tv's in 2010 and 2011..."


May I ask the knowledgeable folks here on this forum if there's much truth to that? I can't help but come away with that feeling from sales staff after a month or so of intensive research to update myself.


By way of background and in the spirit of full disclosure, i have a 60XBR1 sxrd in my living room, and a 46EX500 in my bedroom (though i feel that i ought to have purchased the 55EX500 for my bedroom rather than the 46").


Thanks in advance.

1)tell to this supposed that sony also has local dimming models and actually 2.the HX900 which is full led l/d,but also the cheaper HX800 with edge led local dimming.


2)also inform them that samsung is in even worse position with just one series with some form of edge led local dimming on C8000 series


3)Ask them the question:Why are they so much afraid of sony in 2010?

 

[eieio]

well, thx gents for the spirited, educational replies!


all i can say is that i've been somewhat surprised by the consistent, and pervasive amount of talk by so many salespeople about how Sony simply isn't what it used to be!


be that as it may, i wanted a small-ish panel tv for my bedroom, and i had thought that 46" is just about right. how wrong was i! gosh. i actually now feel that 50" or 55" would be just about right for my bedroom.


nonetheless, i thought to myself: "...hey, self, how bad can a Sony brand new 46EX500 be? it's hot off the press, it's very similar to their last year's V5100, so it's not that risky, right?" That said, i proceeded to buy the 46EX500 the first couple of days a retailer got it in stock and took delivery the very next day.


i'm fine with it. it's the best picture i've had in my bedroom - but that's not saying very much, as i've never had a tv of the caliber/size of my Sony 46EX500 in my bedroom before.


i'm enjoying it a lot. yet, that doesn't mean that all those salespeople's comments, many unsolicited, went unnoticed by me. it lingered in my mind and sort of/kind of bothered me a bit vis-a-vis my own, somewhat hasty decision on my 46EX500. i did it out of my past comfort with Sony's name, their brand, and their overall level of competence. i ought to have considered the huge R&D spending that other newer players in the field have poured into this area, players like Sharp, Samsung, LG, Vizio. Of course, i fully recognize that Sharp's been at this from the very beginning - weren't they the original inventors/pioneers of the early black and white (grey and black, actually

LCD's of the 1970's?

 

[Guinea]

Let's give the guys who came up with the Trinitron and its 30 year reign some credit.


Samsungs aren't all that, and I always found their designs rather cheap and gaudy as well. Plus they can't seem to buy some decent capacitors. You aren't missing anything with your EX500 at its price point that a Samsung could offer, other than thinness.


You know what Sony should do though? Find a way to produce RGB LEDs cheaply and resurrect the Trinitron branding (trinity + electron) for their RGB-LED panels. Then they'd be untouchable again.

 

[spyboy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by eieio /forum/post/18236773


well, thx gents for the spirited, educational replies!


all i can say is that i've been somewhat surprised by the consistent, and pervasive amount of talk by so many salespeople about how Sony simply isn't what it used to be!


be that as it may, i wanted a small-ish panel tv for my bedroom, and i had thought that 46" is just about right. how wrong was i! gosh. i actually now feel that 50" or 55" would be just about right for my bedroom.


nonetheless, i thought to myself: "...hey, self, how bad can a Sony brand new 46EX500 be? it's hot off the press, it's very similar to their last year's V5100, so it's not that risky, right?" That said, i proceeded to buy the 46EX500 the first couple of days a retailer got it in stock and took delivery the very next day.


i'm fine with it. it's the best picture i've had in my bedroom - but that's not saying very much, as i've never had a tv of the caliber/size of my Sony 46EX500 in my bedroom before.


i'm enjoying it a lot. yet, that doesn't mean that all those salespeople's comments, many unsolicited, went unnoticed by me. it lingered in my mind and sort of/kind of bothered me a bit vis-a-vis my own, somewhat hasty decision on my 46EX500. i did it out of my past comfort with Sony's name, their brand, and their overall level of competence. i ought to have considered the huge R&D spending that other newer players in the field have poured into this area, players like Sharp, Samsung, LG, Vizio. Of course, i fully recognize that Sharp's been at this from the very beginning - weren't they the original inventors/pioneers of the early black and white (grey and black, actually

LCD's of the 1970's?

Yeah, Sharp has been into LCD for ages. I remember going to an A/V show at least 15 years ago and getting into a phone-booth size curtained in exhibit with a Sharp LCD front projector with an image of about 35 inches projected onto a tiny screen in the "booth". Blacks were non-existant. LCD has come a long way.


I just hope that form doesn't triumph over function and that back-lit. local dimming LCDs don't disappear gradually.

 

[vitoandolini]



Quote:
Originally Posted by eieio /forum/post/18236773


well, thx gents for the spirited, educational replies!


all i can say is that i've been somewhat surprised by the consistent, and pervasive amount of talk by so many salespeople about how Sony simply isn't what it used to be!


be that as it may, i wanted a small-ish panel tv for my bedroom, and i had thought that 46" is just about right. how wrong was i! gosh. i actually now feel that 50" or 55" would be just about right for my bedroom.


nonetheless, i thought to myself: "...hey, self, how bad can a Sony brand new 46EX500 be? it's hot off the press, it's very similar to their last year's V5100, so it's not that risky, right?" That said, i proceeded to buy the 46EX500 the first couple of days a retailer got it in stock and took delivery the very next day.


i'm fine with it. it's the best picture i've had in my bedroom - but that's not saying very much, as i've never had a tv of the caliber/size of my Sony 46EX500 in my bedroom before.


i'm enjoying it a lot. yet, that doesn't mean that all those salespeople's comments, many unsolicited, went unnoticed by me. it lingered in my mind and sort of/kind of bothered me a bit vis-a-vis my own, somewhat hasty decision on my 46EX500. i did it out of my past comfort with Sony's name, their brand, and their overall level of competence. i ought to have considered the huge R&D spending that other newer players in the field have poured into this area, players like Sharp, Samsung, LG, Vizio. Of course, i fully recognize that Sharp's been at this from the very beginning - weren't they the original inventors/pioneers of the early black and white (grey and black, actually

LCD's of the 1970's?

I'd say your decision was hasty because so few 2010 models are available now and more will be available relatively soon. Not to mention, it's a bedroom TV. How much will you suffer without a new HDTV in your bedroom for 2 more months? You can make a much more informed decision within the next 1 to 3 months.


Likewise, I don't know what those salespeople are talking about. In addition to being factually wrong about the features available in Sony's 2010 models, they don't know how almost all of Sony's 2010 models will perform because they haven't been released or reviewed yet.

 

[eieio]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinea /forum/post/18236805


Let's give the guys who came up with the Trinitron and its 30 year reign some credit.


Samsungs aren't all that, and I always found their designs rather cheap and gaudy as well. Plus they can't seem to buy some decent capacitors.


You know what Sony should do though? Find a way to produce RGB LEDs cheaply and resurrect the Trinitron branding (trinity + electron) for their RGB-LED panels. Then they'd be untouchable again.

oh, btw, Guinea, i was near a bestbuy the other day and dropped in for only 10 minutes since i didn't have that much time. i saw a higher end large-ish Samsung LED display which had some sci fi movie playing (it might be a movie with Shia LaBeouf but i'm not sure since this is not my genre of interest at all). i said to the salesperson: oh my goodness, this image is almost unwatchable! the brightness is cranked so high up that the white reflections on the actors' oily faces are painful to watch! yikes. his reply was that it was to catch people's attention as they walk by and hopefully, it will make them go wow and stop. there were two people sitting on the only two club chairs there in front of the tv. i asked him nicely if he could turn it down a bit so it's more usable and realistic for a home environment. he said yes relatively nicely but failed to find a remote that worked. he struggled a bit and i said that i had to leave.


needless to say, that was no proper demo of the higher end Samsung. it did leave me with the impression that Samsung will cause my eyes to ache though...

 

[eieio]



Quote:
Originally Posted by vitoandolini /forum/post/18236838


I'd say your decision was hasty because so few 2010 models are available now and more will be available relatively soon. Not to mention, it's a bedroom TV. How much will you suffer without a new HDTV in your bedroom for 2 more months? You can make a much more informed decision within the next 1 to 3 months.


Likewise, I don't know what those salespeople are talking about. In addition to being factually wrong about the features available in Sony's 2010 models, they don't know how almost all of Sony's 2010 models will perform because they haven't been released or reviewed yet.

vitoandolini: mmm...ok, you think my decision was poor/hasty. well, what would be your top picks for a 46" or 50" bedroom tv then? i understand that you reserve the right to change your current best guess choices as newer information comes out, but, surely, with a comment like that, you must have some pretty firm ideas already, right?


kindly opine.

 

[frito]

IMO Samsung's lineup for this year looks pretty bland to me just like last year's line if you don't care about 3D or slimline TV's they are offering no advancements that i can see over last years TV's


the B8500 is gone and they have not announced a black lit LED replacement for it and Sony is coming out with one later this year.


Sony's also already got TV's in stores right now that use the Sharp X-Gen panel and have from what I've seen with my own eyes at least extremely good horizontal viewing angles, matching the best IPS panels viewing angles and leaving S-PVA and other VA based panels in the dust.


who knows what else it may bring to LCD Sharp is also touting faster response times and better contrast ratios on these panels but I've yet to view a TV using these panels in a proper not store bright environment and at the time i saw it it was in a BD's menu not playing anything so motion looked fine because there was little motion

 

[eieio]

i'd like to ask then, if you guys don't mind, how you all would rank or judge the currently available 2010 EX500 line's performance?


that is: is a 46EX500 or a 55EX500 a mediocre, good, very good, or excellent performer?


thx in advance.