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Some people say that I've got a bias against Sony. It may be true, but let me explain my experience and how I've progressed to this point:


I've spent many tens of thousands of dollars buying into dozens of Sony proprietary formats. So many so that I am shell-shocked. And upset as ultimately most of them have failed. Sony drops many of them in a heartbeat and with no support. For example the last one I bought was the micro-mv video format. That format failed. Now we have the new ACHVID proprietary format or some crap like that. History repeating itself.


Now I'm like an ex-smoker smelling second-hand cigarette smoke. I can't stand it.


As an example the new Sony's Blu-ray player will not even play Sony developed CDs. Or even the Sony proprietary SACD audio discs. Sony claims that SACD is superior to PCM. Now they have turned 180 degrees in their position with Blu-ray (all PCM and no SACD).

This hypocrisy rightfully irritates me. For the past several years Sony quality control has gone into the toilet. For example who is ultimately happy with their SXRD products?

Is any worth keeping over the long-term? (This is why I've not purchased any front projector yet).


The bottom line is its all about arrogance, profits, licensing fees and shaking down the consumer. First it was $3,000 bulbs, then it was $1,000 bulbs. What a deal!

$30K projectors, 10K and now 5K. The press claims every one a great deal. The truth is that several
 

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My view is that bad Sony managment has stifled great Sony engineering. Sony has always taken the view that we make great products. If you want to buy these products you will have to put up with a lot of proprietary nonsense that is designed to squeeze a few more nickels out of you.


Sony should realize that its greatest successes have nothing to to with proprietary fromats: the Walk Man, Trinitron, and Playstation 1 and 2.


Sony has stumbled when it endorses proprietary formats: betamax, memory sticks, Bluray, PS3.


This suggests that corporate culture at Sony needs to change. This behavior is ultimately bad for consumers. Irate consumers won't buy Sony products.
 

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I don't see how "proprietary formats" applies to pjs. While your anti-Sony bias story is interesting, I think most people buying Sony pjs aren't worried about any proprietary formats affecting their pjs. You can't think of a mega-corp as a person, being evil. All corporations are profit hungry machines and if they make a product that you feel you won't get screwed with, you can go with it. I've had great luck with Sony TVs in the past (from Trinitrons to XBRs to Bravias) and I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Sony pj. By the way I bought into the whole minidisc thing as a teenager too - used it for 4 years and then discarded it when I bought the next even more proprietary portable player - the iPod.


I also dont buy the proprietary thing with Blu-Ray - the Blu-Ray alliance (which doesnt just consist of Sony) has WAY more big members than the HD-DVD alliance and is no more proprietary than the original DVD (which is also totally proprietary.) Of course that didnt stop me from buying into both formats. Or do you know of some open source movie disc format with a large catalog?


I really dont want this to devolve into a HD-DVD and BR discussion, but I say walk into these things with your eyes open. Stay away if you're worried. But you cant say a Sony pj is bad because you were scarred by MiniDisc.
 

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Well at least you finally answered my question as to why you are such an avid Sony hater/basher.


Fortunately for me I have no such history with Sony good or bad, so I judge each product on its own merits, not by any prejudice I hold towards the company.
Quote:
(This is why I've not purchased any front projector yet).

Give me a break! As you yourself have claimed, there are "several
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate /forum/post/0


...I've spent many tens of thousands of dollars buying into dozens of Sony proprietary formats...As an example the new Sony's Blu-ray player will not even play Sony developed CDs. Or even the Sony proprietary SACD audio discs...

BD is not a Sony proprietary format. You can licensee the technology yourself from the BD Association. Also the ability to play SA-CD's, DVD's, CD's, HD-DVD's, or any other format is up to the manufacture and not prohibited by BD plus one of Sony's first BD (PS3) players will play SA-CD's.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by William /forum/post/0


BD is not a Sony proprietary format. You can licensee the technology yourself from the BD Association. Also the ability to play SA-CD's, DVD's, CD's, HD-DVD's, or any other format is up to the manufacture and not prohibited by BD plus one of Sony's first BD (PS3) players will play SA-CD's.

Technically true in the same way that the forces in Iraq are a "Coalition of the willing" and not just a U.S. force.
 

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So are you suggesting that Panasonic, Pioneer, etc., are somehow being coerced into manufacturing BD gear?
 

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My long experience with Sony has been the opposite. One of few brands that last in my household - the CD3000 headphone was an under priced gem / oldest piece of electronics that I have that still works is a Sony alarm clock / the ps2 was best gaming product of the last decade/ the Sony Vaio U70 is a little marvel ahead of its time / the PS3 is an incredible machine worth more than its price. I have and enjoy the few SA-CDs I've bought. Never considered buying mini-disc music but used a mini-disc player for recording. Their memory stick and UMD format was greedy, stupid nonsense but as they still support both at least those who fell victim are not completely out of luck.


But hate, even if formed from personal experience, does not excuse misinformation. PS3's games are on bluray (they would have to be on some blue laser disc) nor is that format a lone effort, and I don't see what is uniquely proprietary about a playstation - bias lead you to put it on your list. The PS2 is the most liked console for a reason. Sony selling their front 1080p PJs for what they did is the reason others had to drop their starting price (just as Epson's Japanese 1080p has caused many 1080p pjs to drop below $3,000 - I think I will finally import sometime next week). Complaining that Sony saved us all money is silly.


For all your rant Sony still sells some of most well made and thought out products on the market - as well as some great deals. They, like all other companies, caught hold of this Copyright-Protection / proprietary bug which is both anti-consumer and anti-productive. But a fight against that has less to do with anti-Sony and more to do with anti-Capitalism. Personally, I hate Microsoft - deceptive marketing, evil and stupid business practices, and overpriced crappy products but I'm not going to start a thread in the Hi-End Projectors about that (I'll just post it here instead
)
 

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Reincarnate,


Thank you for finally acknowledgeing that you are biased against Sony and explaining the reason why. I say this in sincerity.


I think the level of dialog could be raised substantially in many of your threads if you tried to separate your bias from the conversation. In other words, if you see a situation re proprietary formats (which annoy me too) where history could be repeating itself, you could point out Sony's history, mention the connection, acknowledge your bias, and move on.


On the other hand, if we're talking about a Sony projector which has no relationship to the specific cause of your bias, perhaps we could discuss the product on its own terms.


To me, the pursuit of logic and truth is more important than any bias.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacy Huff /forum/post/0


So are you suggesting that Panasonic, Pioneer, etc., are somehow being coerced into manufacturing BD gear?

Not at all. I am suggesting that bluray is essentially Sony's baby much like the Iraq war is ours. Yeah, Breat Britain and Poland are there just like sony has Panasonic is on board with Bluray.


I don't mean to knock Sony too hard. I would buy a product of theirs in a second (and have) if I like it. All products contain someone's IP and that means that every other company can't copy it. That is a good thing because it encourages innovation.


However, certain products call for standards among all companies. Imagine a world where not all gasoline powered all cars and you needed to buy only Shell or BP gasoline because it was the only one that worked in your car. Competitors form trade groups to set these standards so that everyone benefits in the end. The DVD Forum (originally DVD Consortium) was such a trade group. it was ffounded in 1995 by Hitachi, Matsushita Electric, Mitsubishi Electric, Pioneer, Philips Electronics, Sony, Thomson, Time Warner, Toshiba and JVC to set standards. SOny disagreed with the forum's conclusion that HD-DVD would succeed DVD.


Sorry to hijack this thread. This post has nothing to do with projectors.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy /forum/post/0


Not at all. I am suggesting that bluray is essentially Sony's baby much like the Iraq war is ours.

Blu Ray is Sony's baby as much as HD DVD is Toshiba's


IIRC, Sony and Philips did CDs, and shared in the royalties.


Sony, Toshiba, Philips, ... did DVDs, and shared in the royalties.


They could not figure out how to split the pie so we have the current situation. When in doubt I blame Microsoft.
Its Microsoft's fault


Capitalism is as it is!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan /forum/post/0


Blu Ray is Sony's baby as much as HD DVD is Toshiba's


IIRC, Sony and Philips did CDs, and shared in the royalties.


Sony, Toshiba, Philips, ... did DVDs, and shared in the royalties.


They could not figure out how to split the pie so we have the current situation. When in doubt I blame Microsoft.
Its Microsoft's fault


Capitalism is as it is!

Yep.... blame the 800 pound gorilla...
 

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Toshiba is the only one with a fully compliant HD-DVD player. We've seen BR players from Sony, Philips, LG, Samsung, Pioneer and Panasonic with Sharp, Mitsubishi and Liteon players on the near horizon. Why is BR being singled out as "proprietary"? HD-DVD is 'more proprietary' in my mind, if such a thing even makes any sense. Again, that didn't stop me from getting a HD-DVD player. And a BR player.
 

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I miss my Beta HiFi player. 4 hour audio recording lengths with no tape noise and superior video performance. It took years for CD and DVD to get me back to the same [and then some] quality level.


I was very unhappy with my RPTV SXRD so Sony gave me a full credit toward an SXRD Pearl that I am extremely happy with. Shopping for the right products seems safer to me than shopping first for brand names.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sethk /forum/post/0


Toshiba is the only one with a fully compliant HD-DVD player. We've seen BR players from Sony, Philips, LG, Samsung, Pioneer and Panasonic with Sharp, Mitsubishi and Liteon players on the near horizon. Why is BR being singled out as "proprietary"? HD-DVD is 'more proprietary' in my mind, if such a thing even makes any sense. Again, that didn't stop me from getting a HD-DVD player. And a BR player.

I suppose that it is a question of perspective. However, HD-DVD is the successor to the DVD in a rightful sense because it was approved by an industry trade group, the DVD Forum, whose members include Sony (and still includes Sony to this day, I believe). Sony did not agree with that determination and created its own industry trade group, the Bluray Association. Was this a fight about royalities, as suggested above? Absolutely. However, if you agree with the proposition that trade associations are a good thing and that its members should abide by the determinations that they make collectively so as to avoid just this kind of format war, the blame for this has to be placed on Sony, in my opinion.


Again, Sony has a justified reputation for producing some great products, many of which I personally own. My interest is only that the format war ends. This would hasten the adoption of HD for movies and benefit consumers. There is still some chance that this will happen although that chance diminishes daily. I don't care which format ultimately succeeds. I just want it resolved.


To those who jokingly blame Microsoft, there is one theory that justifies this belief: When the rift took place between Sony and Toshiba, one could argue that Microsoft's backing of Toshiba gave Toshiba the will to take a hardline position in negotiations, one that would force negotiations to fail. Microsoft, for its part, to my knowlege has always taken a format neutral position when it come to storage options. Why the change this time? Of course, it was the the Xbox/PS3 battle that MS had on its mind. MS could have emboldended Toshiba knowing that Sony was using bluray in the PS3 as a means of sabotaging the PS3 and creating doubt in potential PS3 buyers. I just made up this theory but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense to me and explains why Microsoft has been such an active promoter of HD-DVD.
 

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Why can't we keep discussion of HD formats in the forums set up for that purpose?


Please go THERE if you really want to discuss HD DVD and Blu-ray.


But let's not have that discussion pollute the projector forums. This is one of the few places I can come on AVS Forum where the ugliness and political brow beating of the format war isn't pervasive, at least not yet.


I am pleading with you people to take this somewhere else...


PLEASE.


--Jerome
 

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Quote:
Why can't we keep discussion of HD formats in the forums set up for that purpose?


Please go THERE if you really want to discuss HD DVD and Blu-ray.


But let's not have that discussion pollute the projector forums. This is one of the few places I can come on AVS Forum where the ugliness and political brow beating of the format war isn't pervasive, at least not yet.

I agree. I will delete any "format war" posts in this thread from here on out without notice. Please keep things focused on projectors.
 
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