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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am new to this forum and not knowledgable enough to choose between the two very well. I am looking at getting one of these models and have tried weighing the pros and cons. I think there are so many considerations that I just dont know enough about, that I would turn to this forum for help.


Here is what the camera will be used for in order of how often it will be used.

1. Outdoor sporting events with variable lighting. Some of this footage from a boat that will often be moving.

2. Vacation footage of both indoor and outdoor events from different distances.

3. Some stationary footage (interviews etc.) indoors using a tripod.


Some of this footage will hopefully make it onto DVD or eventually Blue-Ray picturing future possibilities.


I see and read so many reasons to get one or the other, but havnt seen a whole lot directly comparing the two in a way that helps me comfortable choosing one over the other.


Does anyone have a good way to help me make this choice?
 

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I have a similar dilemma, except that I need something that can handle fast moving objects (RC helicopters) as well as very low light (RC heli night flying), so I'm leaning toward the Panasonic to get the 60p framerate and presumably at least as good low light performance as last year's HDC-TM300.


Either camcorder is probably sufficient for your needs, but specifics strengths and weaknesses won't be known until someone gets units to test.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustindu4 /forum/post/18131895


From what I can tell from the Panny is that the max bitrate is 17 mbps and the other specs I got off the review on cnet tell me that the CX550 beats it out

Specs on the Panasonic UK website say that the maximum bitrate is 28Mbps at 60p. However, it appears that 30p and 60i are stuck at a maximum 17Mbps.
 

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For sporting event's, having 1080 60p will be a huge benefit over the Sony. You can keep it at that resolution and frame rate or convert it to either 720 60p or slow it down to 1080 24p and have full HD slow motion. If Sony did not improve the chip much then I'd expect the low light capabilities of the TM700 to be better. I mean going from f/1.8 to f/1.5 is a breakthrough. It also has traditional focusing ring which I find very important in a lot of situations.


If you intend on using a camcorder in only 1080 60i and mostly keep it on auto than the Sony can be better because of it's higher bit rate in that mode. Another Sony benefit is the wider lens. You'd be able to get more in the frame.


When it comes to the stabilizer, it's a tossup. The CX500V is said to be better than the TM300 but Panasonic claimed to have made the stabilizer much better with the TM350 and now with the TM700, Panasonic claims that it's much better than the TM350. It would be interesting seeing who has a better stabilizer.


I'd pick the Panasonic over the Sony and Canon but you may want to include the Canon in your option because it has 2 SD card slots and a pure 24p mode. The 24p from the Panasonic may have pull down added although I'm not sure. The only 2 problems is that the stabilizer and the low light capabilities isn't as good as the Panasonic and the Sony.



Now about that 1080 60p mode, I don't think that the maximum because on Sanyo's camcorders, it's advertised as 24Mbps but that's the average and it peaks to around 29Mbps. The version on the Panasonic may be more advanced and I wouldn't be surprised if it peaks to slightly over 30Mbps.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBum /forum/post/18131830


I have a similar dilemma, except that I need something that can handle fast moving objects (RC helicopters) as well as very low light (RC heli night flying), so I'm leaning toward the Panasonic to get the 60p framerate and presumably at least as good low light performance as last year's HDC-TM300.


Either camcorder is probably sufficient for your needs, but specifics strengths and weaknesses won't be known until someone gets units to test.

There are some YouTube videos of a CX500V mounted on an RC helicopter. Search for CX500V and helicopter and you should find them. Not sure if you're talking about doing that, or filming one from the ground as it flies.


The low light performance of the Sony is pretty much unbeaten based on last year's models, as they released a technological edge in the Exmor R chips. You get very low noise at low normal light levels. Not sure how well any cam will do at very low light levels at high speeds. Again, YouTube and presumably Vimeo has clips demonstrating how the last year's Sony models performed. Same is probably true for the Pannys.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Those are pretty good. I wont be buying an RC plane any time soon, but that was some good video. I may be running down a lake at 70mph though, so those videos gave me some good info.


Thanks for all the responces so far. I am guessing as time goes we will hear more about each camera. Hopefully I have it made by 3/8.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Gull /forum/post/18132846


There are some YouTube videos of a CX500V mounted on an RC helicopter. Search for CX500V and helicopter and you should find them. Not sure if you're talking about doing that, or filming one from the ground as it flies.


The low light performance of the Sony is pretty much unbeaten based on last year's models, as they released a technological edge in the Exmor R chips. You get very low noise at low normal light levels. Not sure how well any cam will do at very low light levels at high speeds. Again, YouTube and presumably Vimeo has clips demonstrating how the last year's Sony models performed. Same is probably true for the Pannys.

I'm just talking about filming from the ground. Onboard camera rigs are expensive, and that's not counting the expense of a heli big enough to carry it.


Some of those hot-shot pilots make their helis zip around the sky pretty fast and I'd be somewhat concerned by the quality at 60i. The Sony doesn't have a 30p framerate, does it? At least at 30p, I'd just get blurring.
 

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Panasonic USA has the TM700K model listed @ $999 (32G Flash) and the HS700 (240G HD) @$1399


My question...the posts in this thread all relate to 1080 60p or 60i, but on the Panasonic site, the specs are all 1080 50p or 50i, what's up with that?



Rick
 

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"Panasonic today introduces two additions to its 2010 line of camcorders, the Panasonic HDC-HS700 and HDC-TM700, both Full High Definition (HD) 3MOS camcorders with 1920 x 1080 resolution. The new Panasonic HD camcorders combine 1080/60p recording – allowing them to capture expressive video without detail loss or Moiré pattern"
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...OS%20Camcorder


The TM300 has been a mixed bag. Some say it was better than the Sony and some say it was worse. What I do know is that with the camcorder on intelligent Auto, it adds extra noise in the picture when shooting in low light situations and I think some people had it on that mode when they compared it. Panasonic has released the TM350 since than and now their releasing the TM700 with a much faster lens. Going from f/1.8 to f/1.5 is a big difference when it comes to low light capabilities so it should be much better than their previous camcorders.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich121 /forum/post/18134898


Panasonic USA has the TM700K model listed @ $999 (32G Flash) and the HS700 (240G HD) @$1399


My question...the posts in this thread all relate to 1080 60p or 60i, but on the Panasonic site, the specs are all 1080 50p or 50i, what's up with that?



Rick

Here is a link to the Specifications:

http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-e...702#tabsection


Also for the Panasonic TM700K:


Signal System:

1080 / 50p, 1080 / 50i




Recording / Playback Mode:

1080 / 50p (28Mbps / VBR) , (1920 x 1080)

HA (17Mbps / VBR) , (1920 x 1080)

HG (13Mbps / VBR) , (1920 x 1080)

HX (9Mbps / VBR) , (1920 x 1080)

HE (5Mbps / VBR) , (1920 x 1080
 

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They made a mistake in your link. 50p is Pal. If you click the overview tap. It clearly states 1080 60 Progressive.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira /forum/post/18135110


They made a mistake in your link. 50p is Pal. If you click the overview tap. It clearly states 1080 60 Progressive.

That makes sense...


What I'm wondering, is what sort of physical media would this be best recorded on using the 1080 60p format?


I have a Sony MC10, but I'm sure it won't be usable for this camera, only in the 1080 17p format?


Using MPEG or JPEG, would I be able to record onto DVD-R media at the full 1080 60p format with the use of software? If so, would the recording time be too short to warrant other than short video clips?


Would this be better for Blue-ray media recording?



Rick
 

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I'm in a guessing game too. I'm looking to pick up a full HD camcorder to mount on two different race cars and wondering 1) if 60p would be the best option not to blur the image excessively and 2) which will have a better low light performance for night races. Any help in this area on which to go for would be appreciated. I'm just flip flopping on both of these, but its what it has been narrowed down to.
 

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For pure playback, you would have to use either a hard drive or a Data Blu-Ray discs. Blu-Ray media have been coming down in price to under $2 if you buy in bulk of at least 15.


For memory cards, class 6 should be the bare minimum for the 1080 60p mode.


Since Panasonic is using Sanyo's technology for 1080 60p and maybe for extra low-light capabilities, I wonder if it'll be able to directly hook up straight to an external hard drive without a computer.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnuke34 /forum/post/18138543


I'm in a guessing game too. I'm looking to pick up a full HD camcorder to mount on two different race cars and wondering 1) if 60p would be the best option not to blur the image excessively and 2) which will have a better low light performance for night races. Any help in this area on which to go for would be appreciated. I'm just flip flopping on both of these, but its what it has been narrowed down to.

Unfortunately, there is no clear winner between the Sony HDR-CX550V, Panasonic HDC-TM700, and Canon HF S21. Even though the Canon is the worst in low light, I'm not sure I've eliminated it from consideration. It is arguably the best of the three in good light; it certainly has the most framerate options. The Sony will only do 60i and the Panasonic will only do 60i and 60p. The Canon will do 60i, 30p (in a 60i stream), 24p in a 60i stream, or 24p native. According to CCI, it also does much better in low light at 24p and 30p than at 60i.


On the other hand, the expense of the Canon together with the marginal low light performance is pushing me away a bit. The Panasonic's 60p combined with the Sony's lack of any progressive shooting modes is pushing me toward the Panasonic at the moment, but that may change once the reviews are in. The Sony is #3 on my list right now.
 

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Actually, the TM700 have 24p as well but I believe pull-down is added just like the TM300, TM350 and the GH1. You'll have to remove it before you start editing to get pure 24p. I would be very happy if I'm wrong.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira /forum/post/18144434


Actually, the TM700 have 24p as well but I believe pull-down is added just like the TM300, TM350 and the GH1. You'll have to remove it before you start editing to get pure 24p. I would be very happy if I'm wrong.

I had to dig into the TM300 manual (PDF), but I finally located the description of the "Digital Cinema" mode. I searched for "24p" in and it didn't come up with anything useful. I guess they have to simplify the terms for the general consumer.


Another thing the Panasonic and Canon have going for them is the touch-and-track feature, which as much as anything helps you to get the exposure and focus where you want it and it's not limited to faces as the Sony face detection feature is. It may not be useful for my RC heli shooting because I doubt it can keep up, but it would be quite nice for shooting a lot of things (not just faces) in less-than-ideal lighting conditions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I am leaning toward the Sony now. I was leaning toward the Panasonic, but I decided in my inexperienced state, I will probably be happier with the better stabilization, low light conditions, and honestly some of the Auto functions.


I dont know that the people watching my videos will be missing some of the finer points like 60p.


Does that make sense or am I confused?


Also, is any class 6 high speed SDHC okay or are there brands or things to stay away from? Does anyone have recommendations on cards for these cameras?
 
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