[johnsmith808]

I'm in the market for a sub $2k pj. My preferences are lowest absolute black level and high on/off contrast ratios. Of course ansi contrast is nice too, but considering I'm coming from the land of crt's with ansi contrast in the neighborhood of 60 to 120:1, I'm sure even lcd's would be a great improvement in that category.


With that in mind, I'm looking at the Sony hs60 and the Sanyo Z5. Both claim on/off contrasts of 10,000:1 and reviewers say both hit very low absolute black levels. Of course I know this is courtesy of an auto iris, but I read that these are much improved to the point of barely noticing it's effect.


Sounds pretty similar as far as I can tell. Even price is pretty close as well. Anything you feel sets these two apart?

 

[johnsmith808]

Any opinions please. I'm getting close to a purchase, but can't really choose between the two.


Thanks.

 

[CaspianM]

I think none of the LCD;s or digitals can really come that close to a GOOD 8" lc. The ansi contrast of CRT in real life is better than rated if it is a LC unit.

I prefer the Sony and bought it just about two weeks ago but your mileage might vary.

Sony out of box is very nice and tweaks are widely available due to all sort of user's and service menu parameters available. I do not recommend the Sony for larger than 100" wide screen max. Other than that its color, sharpness and overall image of this pj is just awesome. It is also one of the quietest PJ around.

 

[smile]

"Other than its color, sharpness and overall image of this pj is just awesome"

Other than that, how was the play Mr. Lincoln?

 

[CaspianM]

A "that" was missing. Edited.

 

[CMRA]



Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsmith808 /forum/post/0


I'm in the market for a sub $2k pj. My preferences are lowest absolute black level and high on/off contrast ratios. Of course ansi contrast is nice too, but considering I'm coming from the land of crt's with ansi contrast in the neighborhood of 60 to 120:1, I'm sure even lcd's would be a great improvement in that category.


With that in mind, I'm looking at the Sony hs60 and the Sanyo Z5. Both claim on/off contrasts of 10,000:1 and reviewers say both hit very low absolute black levels. Of course I know this is courtesy of an auto iris, but I read that these are much improved to the point of barely noticing it's effect.


Sounds pretty similar as far as I can tell. Even price is pretty close as well. Anything you feel sets these two apart?

You are crying out 'CRT' rather than LCD. Those 10K : 1 claims only measured up to 536:1 when a D65 calibration was done. How these companies get away with these claims escapes me.

Some of the better DLPs have D65 calibrated CR in excess of 3000:1 which delivers a lower black level on par with what you'd experience at your local cinema. But for those INKY blacks you seek stick with CRT or pony up the dough for a JVC RS1 (see >$3000 forum).

 

[CaspianM]

Local mutiplex black level varies in my experience. Print ages fast with projection resulting in washed out black and contrast.

I have seen good prints that it sure looked extremly nice overal with excellent black.

Also the ambient light in theaters are hi which mask the lower CR. Tha is not the case in HT where light control is better.

 

[CMRA]



Quote:
Originally Posted by CaspianM /forum/post/0


Local mutiplex black level varies in my experience. Print ages fast with projection resulting in washed out black and contrast.

.

Caspian, how old are the movies they show in thoroughbred country? Assuming a current release has been played 24 times before you see it only accounts for one second of bulb exposure per frame. Now, if those films have been sitting in storage for the last 20 years...

 

[sethk]

The HS60 is dimmer. If this is not an issue, I'd say its a toss up. I might go with the Sony because of better resale value.

 

[CaspianM]

Fading due to storage time is a slow process .

I would say 24 times should not make a major change but 3 times a day it would add up quickly under intense light and heat in about two weeks there would be some changes.

Here I have seen movies that fade to near black and others to gray.

 

[jstein]

OP, after reading reviews, I was considering the same two units. I went with the Sony for two reasons. One, I was able to purchase it locally with a 30 day return privilege at a price comparable to internet pricing. Two, I prefered buying a model that had been in production for a while, rather than one that is relatively new to the market.


My unit has no shading issues and the convergence is excellent. There is a tad bit of vertical banding, but it is not in the least distracting on program material. I have a coffee table setup with a Da-Lite 106" diagonal High Power screen, so I have no brightness issues with the lamp on low and the iris on auto. I do not find the auto-iris to be at all disturbing in its operation.


This is my fourth projector. The first was an NEC 9PG Xtra, so I have some notion of what CRT black level is. I am quite satisfied with both the black level and contrast (see the Cine4Home review for measurements) on my HS60.


I think that the biggest issue in buying any projector after having done your research is unit-to-unit variance and the possibility of getting one that is has disturbing artifacts and not being able to get the dealer or manufacturer to deal with it. So, my advice is to look at dealers both locally and over the Internet that have reasonable return/exchange policies. Some internet dealers will allow you to return for a full refund if there is less than four hours on the bulb.


While purchasing locally with a 30 day return privilege is reassuring when buying, if you end up with just four hours to evaluate the unit, download and read the manual before getting the unit, so you don't spend a large part of that four hours learning the menuing system. Spend that 3.99 hours looking for problems that were noted in the reviews and on AVS. If you get past that, do a DVE calibration and check again.


You may find that the ability or inability to get one of these units at a good price with return privileges steers you towards one or the other and thus makes your decision a bit easier.


Good luck and good viewing.

 

[johnsmith808]

Thanks for the replies. Sounds like the projectors are very simililar and it'll come up to other factors such as return policy, etc.


CMRA said that these lcd's measured at only 536:1? I never heard that before. Is that on/off contrast with auto iris engaged?


CRT is not an option for me, so I'm looking to get the best digital under $2k that excells in on/off contrast ratio, even if that includes an auto iris. The dlp's don't seem to be able to have such a good on/off contrast due to the fact that their irises are stationary, at least in this price range. Don't you think a dlp based unit with the fancy iris techniques of the Ruby/Pearl would be amazing?

 

[CaspianM]

CMRA was referring to ANSI contrast not on/off.

I hate color wheel. DLP color is its weakness but there are more DLP guy on this fotum. That is the difference I think.

 

[arango1]

I just ordered an HS60 from Crutchfield. the reviews on it are good and it's part of a series of models that have gotten pretty decent reviews.


Crutchfield has a 30 day return policy, so I will have a good amount of time to evaluate it. If it does work well, then I will return it and start over.

 

[johnsmith808]

Is the price on the web site really what you paid at Crutchfield? Seems like the MSRP.

 

[georgeorwell]

Look closer...there are other benefits (other than their great customer service).

 

[arango1]

You can also request a discount. I received 100.00 off the HS60.

 

[rmccormack]

Go with the Z5, Sony is overpriced crap.

 

[MTyson]



Quote:
Originally Posted by CaspianM /forum/post/0


CMRA was referring to ANSI contrast not on/off.

Reading his post I don't understand why he'd compare On/Off spec to the ANSI contrast measurement in a way that shows disappointment. For one, 500+:1 ANSI contrast is VERY high.


It looks to me like he's referring to On/Off throughout his post, because we know good DLPs do not offer 3000:1 ANSI contrast like he mentions.

 

[CaspianM]



Quote:
Originally Posted by MTyson /forum/post/0


Reading his post I don't understand why he'd compare On/Off spec to the ANSI contrast measurement in a way that shows disappointment. For one, 500+:1 ANSI contrast is VERY high.


It looks to me like he's referring to On/Off throughout his post, because we know good DLPs do not offer 3000:1 ANSI contrast like he mentions.

Yes you are right. I overlooked his comment.

Actually he is saying LCD 500:1 and DLP 3k:1.

Oh well.. now that claim escapes me.

unless I am missing what he is trying to say.