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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What really is the difference between the 2? I cannot get a salesperson to explain it to me and I really have very little knowledge about the technical 'stuff'. I was floored by the XBR but the price difference makes me wonder.....oh, and whats the WF model? HELP!!
 

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I saw the 60XS955 and the 70XBR950 right next to each other today and was hard pressed to find a difference in terms of PQ. I'd give a slight edge to the XBR in terms of blacks and overall appearance on an SD signal, but otherwise nothing. Among the points in favor of the XS were:


- matte finish on the screen rather than the XBR's shiny glass, which put up a ton of glare


- XS has dual HDMI ports and cablecard


- XS looked a bit better in "zoom" mode - stretching a 4:3 signal to fit the screen. "Fat-head" syndrome seemed a bit less pronounced, but this may have been due to the difference in screen size.


The XS won hands down, especially considering price/performance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have not seen the XS yet but what is the price diff.? I have seen here that is it about 1300.00 mor eor less. Is that true? What is the justification for the diff.? I just spent 10 minutes chatting online with some sony guy and he really couldn't pin-point a difference other than the XBR's have high-end technology (whatever that means). I pointed out (with the little tecnological terms I know) that the XS has better sound, more inputs and HDMI (whatever that is), and he said then get the XS. Sigh. He claimed the screens for the XS and XBR were the same. The warranty info on the sony site is wrong and I had to tell *him* that. The sony sites says both the XS and XBR have 12 months when I know that the XBR has 24 mo. I just cant see spending 1k+ more for the XS. Can anyone????????
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by avalon71
I have not seen the XS yet but what is the price diff.? I have seen here that is it about 1300.00 mor eor less. Is that true? What is the justification for the diff.? I just spent 10 minutes chatting online with some sony guy and he really couldn't pin-point a difference other than the XBR's have high-end technology (whatever that means). I pointed out (with the little tecnological terms I know) that the XS has better sound, more inputs and HDMI (whatever that is), and he said then get the XS. Sigh. He claimed the screens for the XS and XBR were the same. The warranty info on the sony site is wrong and I had to tell *him* that. The sony sites says both the XS and XBR have 12 months when I know that the XBR has 24 mo. I just cant see spending 1k+ more for the XS. Can anyone????????
it's hard to say if the xbr is worth it, but it does have some distinct advantages:


- available in a 70"

- high contrast screen shield (believe it or not, many people still appreciate these)

- 2 year warranty

- different styling

- 3 iLink inputs/outputs (for DVcam and D-VHS)

- Uniform brigtness Screen (UBS) for better vertical viewing angle (60 degrees vs. 30)


the xs advantages are:

-PRICE

- 2 hdmi inputs

- CableCARD tuner

- different styling

- "Live Color" LSI - enhances blues and greens (some like, some don't)

- new menu system

- available in a 55" size

- no screen protector (better if only if you have a glare problem)


so, they both have advantages, i hope this helps you make your decision.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
OK, today I am leaning towards the XS model, largely because of the price and the existance of the HDTV tuner. However, I still made several stops to 2 local stores and a chain store. I also noticed the price for the XS in the newspaper this weekend at BB (mid 4K range). Both of the local dealers were significantly less expensively (and I mean super significantly). However, neither had it in stock and couldn't give a definite delivery time. BOTH stores are authorized dealers. The chain store did not even have it in their computer system nor did J&R in Manhattan. No one had the XS on display.


Fortunately, I discovered this morning that the XS had ther HDTV tuner built in. The sony rep I chatted with neglected to mention that last night online nor did he mention the screen protector vs. the glass screen as well. I think the lack of glass (as I understand) on the XS might be a huge downside for me as I have a cat and she enjoyed swatting at the images on my old 57 inch RPTV as she sat on top of it. If there has been a glass protecter then there would not have been a problem. By the way, the warranty issue that was brought up by one poster is not an 'issue' because I will buy the extended warranty.


Remaining questions:

1) what is the screen (protector) material on the XS model? On the XBR I see it is glass which I like. How is it on the XS?

2) Can you really see a difference in PQ on the 2?

3) Most importantly, other than it not being avl by the local dealers, why is the price so much lower at the local dealers? How can that be? These are 2 very legitimate stores and both are authorized sony dealers! I bought my whole kitchen in one of the stores.
 

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Has anyone checked out CC website?


Online purchase special this week--can't mention specific price but is it okay to say $600 off msrp.


Doesn't look like they have them in stock, but with that type of discout, how can you go wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I checked the CC website after getting the BB circular. BB is is 600 less with that online deal BUT my locals are 300 and 750 less. I really don't get how they can do that.


OK, now I am confused. Does the 60XBR have a HD tuner? If it does have a HD tuner, I am still not understanding what the XBR is so much more other than the glass 'screen'.
 

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Yes, both the 60XBR and 70XBR have internal HDTV tuners. So does the 60XS.


Avalon, re: your #1 -- the XS has a matte type finish, not a glass screen like the XBRs. I'd liken it to the surface of a laptop screen in terms of appearance. Very low reflection/glare. However, I poked it a bit and it's plenty rigid - not like a laptop LCD where it bends and you get the color distortions.


For the price difference, I couldn't see anywhere CLOSE to enough difference to make me think about the XBR considering the prices of the XS models.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by avalon71
I checked the CC website after getting the BB circular. BB is is 600 less with that online deal BUT my locals are 300 and 750 less. I really don't get how they can do that.


OK, now I am confused. Does the 60XBR have a HD tuner? If it does have a HD tuner, I am still not understanding what the XBR is so much more other than the glass 'screen'.
just to clarify the tuner situation... the XBR does have an integrates ATSC/QAM HDTV terrestrial/cable tuner (both the 60 and 70"). it does NOT have the cableCard tuner, though. so you can get over-the-air HD and unencrypted cable HD (not HBO, etc.). the xs series (and all new grand wegas for that matter) has the ATSC/cablecard tuner that allows the same functionality PLUS the ablility to rent a cablecard from your provider to view encrypted channels without renting a box.


as for the screen... it is the same as on the WE/WF series grand wegas but it has a single layer of anti-reflective coating (which the WE/WF's do not). the xbr is the glass protective screen with dual a/r coating, but since it's glass, there is more glare.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Now I finally understand it all. I just cannot see spending the 1500+ more for the 60 inch xbr, so, I guess I won't. Even though the low price form my locals makes me nervous, I really have nothing to lose. I wonder if CC or BB will match it. Anyone have experience doing that? Why would the locals go so low?
 

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Avalon, with an MSRP of $4399 dealer cost is something under $3000. They discount it because they can -- no national TV commercials, no mailers, etc.


YMMV with price matches to local retailers at CC/BB -- if they're sticklers they can call and find out it's not in stock, and thus you're not entitled to a pricematch. Some stores check, others don't care.
 

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Why big difference in price? Two main reasons:


XBR - 2 year warranty

XS - 1 year warranty


XBR - Cinema Black (allows finer control over the contrast level - one generation below Cinema Black Pro that's used in the high-end VPL projectors and Qualia products)

XS - No Cinema Black



Despite the difference in updated features like HDMI, CableCard and aesthetics, it all boils down to the picture quality folks. The XBR line always outperforms non-xbr tv's in PQ using generational technology.


Read the fine details here:


Sony KDF-60XBR950 - Manual http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro...DF60XBR950.pdf


Sony KDF-60XS955 - Manual
http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro...KDF60XS955.pdf
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I got it as to the diff. between the XBR and the XS. However, if I choose to stay in the $ range of the XS, is there a huge diff. between the XS and the WFs? What *IS* the difference? I see 400.00 but what about PQ and features?
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Fidelity
it's hard to say if the xbr is worth it, but it does have some distinct advantages:


- available in a 70"

- high contrast screen shield (believe it or not, many people still appreciate these)

- 2 year warranty

- different styling

- 3 iLink inputs/outputs (for DVcam and D-VHS)

- Uniform brigtness Screen (UBS) for better vertical viewing angle (60 degrees vs. 30)


the xs advantages are:

-PRICE

- 2 hdmi inputs

- CableCARD tuner

- different styling

- "Live Color" LSI - enhances blues and greens (some like, some don't)

- new menu system

- available in a 55" size

- no screen protector (better if only if you have a glare problem)


so, they both have advantages, i hope this helps you make your decision.


The vertical viewing angle is 60 deg. for BOTH the XBR and the XS.


I don't see myself spending $1200-1500 more for a high contrast screen, giving up 2 HDMI inputs, a dual brightness lamp, and a cable card slot, but that's only me...They are basically the same TV, you pay more for the XBR name...
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by avalon71
so then along those lines, isn't the WF and XS models the same (virtually)?
xs step ups from wf:


2 hmdi inputs vs. 1

different design

single a/r coating on screen vs. none

advanced picture controls in user menu

"live color" LSI

100w, 5 speaker sound system


about $300 more for xs
 

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I'll buy everything except that A/R coating bit. I'm not saying it isn't true, but, come on, how much more anti-reflective can you get. I see no glare / reflections off the WF models at all.
 
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