[DerStig]

Sony announced the VG20, successor of VG10 last week. It looks like what VG10 should have been and more. Is it too good to be true?


I think you can easily compare VG20 to XA10 as they are both in the same price range, targeted towards the same user base.


Pros

- Just way too many there, so take the universe and subtract the Cons below


Cons

- Audio:

* No XLR input

* In VG10 AGC was enabled and couldn't be turned off, the press release does mention about "sound control", but doesn't say anything about AGC, let's assume it's still there.

- Video:

* No IR

* The E-lenses Sony has are quite limited in the variety department. If you are going with a DSLR camera that can record video (or camcorder that can be used as a DSLR), you want far more choices than a few low end zoom lenses. They are all very SLOW, with apertures 2.8>. I see no prime lenses in the F1.4 range (which would have been AMAZING!). Not to mention, if you used the adapter they have and used one of the Canon or Nikon lenses, you lose the control of aperture apparently, which is pretty bad. So if I stick in my 30mm F1.4 sigma lens on this thing, it is going to always keep it at F1.4, out doors it will be impossible to shoot anything.

- Misc:

* Limited record space (32 vs 192)


But still, I'm afraid (for the 2 grand I spent on XA10), this camera might be a game changer, simply because it allows you to AF with DSLR lenses on a DSLR chip in a camcorder format. That's just simply amazing. If sony had the right lens setup, I would have switched over in a heartbeat, forget about audio or IR or hard disk space, being able to shoot 1080p with fast primes? That's the one!

 

[qwerty888]

Sell me your XA10 once you got the VG20

 

[brunerww]

Stig,


It may be even better than you think. My understanding from the EU press release is that "There’s a new audio level control".


See press release here: http://presscentre.sony.eu/content/D...8&NewsAreaID=2


Sounds like manual control of audio to me.


The press release also says that the camera takes SDXC cards -- so the record limit isn't 32GB, it's 128GB (see this card from Lexar)


And, although it seems to have been lost in the hoopla surrounding the A77, Sony also announced several new NEX fast primes along with the new NEX cameras, to include a $999 24mm/1.8 and a $300 50mm/1.8 (see this from Engadget).


Time to sell that XA10 and pre-order a VG20


Cheers,


Bill

 

[DerStig]



Quote:
Originally Posted by brunerww /forum/post/20883661


Stig,


It may be even better than you think. My understanding from the EU press release is that "There's a new audio level control".


See press release here: http://presscentre.sony.eu/content/D...8&NewsAreaID=2


Sounds like manual control of audio to me.


The press release also says that the camera takes SDXC cards -- so the record limit isn't 32GB, it's 128GB (see this card from Lexar)


And, although it seems to have been lost in the hoopla surrounding the A77, Sony also announced several new NEX fast primes along with the new NEX cameras, to include a $999 24mm/1.8 and a $300 50mm/1.8 (see this from Engadget).


Time to sell that XA10 and pre-order a VG20


Cheers,


Bill

I don't need to sell it, I can return it. But if I'm going to do anything like that, GH2 sounds better to me (didn't know about it until yesterday when I made this thread). It looks like a much better video camera and a stills camera.

 

[Shield]

The biggest problem with the VG10 I had was the extra noise. You could hear lots of noise whenever you filmed while holding the handle (and it was loud, scratchy and annoying) and zooming in and out was very audible during playback - even filming on a tripod and zooming "gently" I could hear it plain as day. I don't see that being fixed.


Plus there's not very many E type lenses or fast primes that I've seen for this yet.

 

[brunerww]



Quote:
Originally Posted by DerStig /forum/post/20883948


I don't need to sell it, I can return it. But if I'm going to do anything like that, GH2 sounds better to me (didn't know about it until yesterday when I made this thread). It looks like a much better video camera and a stills camera.

I own the GH2, and it is a fabulous hybrid still/video camera. But it lacks a few things, from a camcorder perspective:


1. The VG20 has full manual audio control, the GH2 does not (it has 4-step AGC, better than nothing, but not full manual).

2. The VG20 has a headphone jack for in-camera audio monitoring, the GH2 does not.

3. The VG20 has focus peaking and zebras, the GH2 does not.

4. The VG20 shoots 1080/60p, the GH2 does not.

5. The VG20 has a 5.1 channel surround sound mic, the GH2 does not.

6. The VG20 has 2 record buttons, the GH2 has 1.

7. The VG20 has an APS sensor, larger and with less crop than the GH2's micro 4/3 sensor.

8. For those who someday want to rent or buy a pro camcorder, the VG20 shares lens mounts with the Sony NEX-FS100 and its even larger Super 35mm sensor, while the GH2 shares mounts with the comparatively smaller micro 4/3 sensor Panasonic AG-AF100.


The VG20 is the first camera that has made me think seriously about selling my GH2.


Cheers,


Bill
http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com

 

[Paulo Teixeira]

Their are also positives to the GH2 like significantly better compression when you include the hack and we don't know how the VG20 will deal with moire and aliasing compared to the GH2. Same with the GH2 having a very high resolution. Speaking of resolution, if it's not as high as the GH2's than even without the hack, the GH2's 720 60p mode might put up a good fight although it's too early to tell. What we do know is the the A77's 1080 60p mode have proven to not be so great so I'm really hoping the VG20 will do much better and once you hack the 720 60p mode of the GH2, I don't think the 1080 60p mode of the VG20 will have nearly as good picture quality. For low light capabilities, I'd think the VG20 will be better in that area even though the hack gets rid of all the compression noise in low light situations.


One big plus of the VG20 is ergonomics since it's shaped like a camcorder but then again, their are far more native lenses for the GH2 including powered zoom lenses. As I said elsewhere, I really find it ironic that Sony doesn't have any powered zoom lenses yet and they have a camera shaped like a camcorder while Panasonic does but doesn't have a consumer camcorder body yet. Speaking of lenses, the VG20 has a crop of about 1,6 I believe while the GH2 is 1.9.


I wouldn't say being able to use the same lenses on a FS100 as a plus because the AF100 is not bad either and never mind the fact that the AF100 has built in Neutral Density filters and the ergonomics is significantly better than the FS100. The AF100 also has HD-SDI output which is another huge plus. A benefit of the FS100 is the low light capabilities. Anyway, if we were to talk about the $20,000 Sony F3K which includes 3 lenses, that thing destroys the FS100 and AF100 to pieces.


I obviously have a GH2 but I definitely wouldn't mind owning a VG20. It's definitely significantly better than the VG10 which was a huge embarrassment. We also need to keep in mind that their is an NEX 5n which has all of the video modes of the VG20, has manual controls and the same chip. That camera as well as the NEX 7 will also compete against the GH2 and VG20.

 

[Shield]

Also, I found the VG-10 to be very front heavy with the kit lens and was uncomfortable shooting with it for a while handheld. This will obviously not change with the new one. At the end of the day, where's the glass for the VG20? Not seeing lots of choices for lenses. The kit is pretty slow.

Also, the on board audio from the GH2 is pretty damn good in DD Stereo 2.0. At least I can zoom without ruining the audio unlike the VG10 (and I assume the VG20)...

 

[Jay968]

2 very important limitations of the VG10...and if they haven't been changed, my feeling is that the VG20 is not going to be much better...


1 - Focus on the VG10 is rather slow and innacurate compared to the GH2.

2 - Aliasing issues on the VG10 make it very much inferior to the GH2.


Again, unless these have been changed and improved, the VG20 will fail as well.

 

[marcolisi]

Are u guys sure that the VG20 has a Sony Exmor R back-illuminated sensor ?


I think that the VG10 did NOT have 1, and that is why the xr550 and cx560 were are far better in low light than the VG10...


What do u guys think ?

 

[Paulo Teixeira]

It's says the VG10 has an EXMAR chip.
http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/sto...29166#features


I'm not sure where you got the conclusion that Sony's camcorders are far better but in order to do accurate testings,you must use a fast lens of f/1.8 or better. I'd be very surprised if the VG10 was not better.


Still, The VG20 is said to be a bit better than the VG10 in low light. When you combine that with all the other pluses, it's a no brainier to choose the VG20 over it. Heck, I would choose the Sony NEX 5n over the VG10 if given a choice since as I said, it has the same video modes and chip as the VG20.

 

[Paulo Teixeira]

Here's a video with low light comparisons of the 5n and GH2. If the low light quality of the VG20 is the same as the NEX 5n then I'm going to have second thoughts over thinking they'll be a real noticeable difference in low light capabilities between the GH2 and VG20 in the video mode.
http://www.eoshd.com/content/3856/so...-video-footage


To be fair to the VG20, it wont be out until November. so Sony might have some time to tweak it a bit before it's released.


Body only NEX 5N = $600

Body only VG20 =$1,600

 

[marcolisi]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira /forum/post/20899971


It's says the VG10 has an EXMAR chip.
http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/sto...29166#features


I'm not sure where you got the conclusion that Sony's camcorders are far better but in order to do accurate testings,you must use a fast lens of f/1.8 or better. I'd be very surprised if the VG10 was not better.


Still, The VG20 is said to be a bit better than the VG10 in low light. When you combine that with all the other pluses, it's a no brainier to choose the VG20 over it. Heck, I would choose the Sony NEX 5n over the VG10 if given a choice since as I said, it has the same video modes and chip as the VG20.

as per b&h customer service...