[sdl58]

Hello,

Newbie here so sorry if this is a lame question. Hopefully someone can advise me. Just moved to Canada and I've bought a Sony RDRHX780 which I've made multi region to play region 2 films, the trouble is it will play okay on other LCD TV's but not the Samsung LN46B530, it's connected through a HDMI, I get sound but no picture, just the TV saying mode not supported



Any advise would be gratefully received

 

[CitiBear]

You need to make a distinction between "multi-region" and "multi-format": you don't always get both features in the same unit, and NEVER in any dvd/hdd recorder like the Sony 780. When you region hack a dvd player, odds are it will also automatically do a format conversion during playback, enabling you to watch the video on any random North American television. Recorders, on the other hand, do not perform format conversions when hacked: if you "region-hack" a recorder, about all you accomplish is having the thing not spit a Region 2 disc out as soon as you load it. You might as well not have bothered.


Your problem is your hacked Sony 780 now accepts region 2 discs for playback, but it is playing them in the format they were originally recorded as: PAL. Some North American televisions can handle this, and will convert the image for you seamlessly, but most like your Samsung cannot process a PAL signal and will throw a "not supported" alert on screen. Your two options are to either replace the Samsung with another set that converts, or forget using the Sony as a playback deck and buy a proper multi-format multi-region converting DVD player. If you don't have a lot of PAL discs, a simple $39 Phillips dvd player at Wal*Mart should suffice, if you have a huge PAL library you might want to opt for something nicer like an Oppo which runs about $200. In any case your Sony 780 is designed as a recorder first, with playback being a distant second consideration. DVD is not like VHS, where all machines were dual-purpose record/playback devices: dvd recorders are easily worn out prematurely if used as players and burner repair costs more than the entire recorder did. Anyone with a dvd/hdd recorder really ought to have a separate dedicated dvd player to reduce unnecessary wear on the recorder and to play the many odd PAL and DiVX formats most recorders have trouble with.

 

[sneals2000]

Also - to add - if you have a TV that accepts and displays a 50Hz image (aka "PAL") then you may get noticably better results than if you buy a new DVD player that converts 50Hz to 60Hz for your TV to display at 60Hz.


I live in Europe - where all of our TVs pretty much cope with 50Hz (aka PAL) and 60Hz (aka NTSC) video (our "HD Ready" displays have to support both or they can't be called "HD Ready") and have also owned players that do internal conversions.


The quality of a conversion from 50Hz to 60Hz (or 60Hz to 50Hz) made by the built-in converter in a DVD Player is not that great (standards conversions are difficult to do well - broadcasters still pay tens of thouands of dollars for their converters and they aren't yet transparent at that price level) - and external converters are also pretty basic. In comparison staying native to the format of the DVD and displaying natively is excellent.


Ignoring regional coding (R1, R2 etc.) the key thing to be aware of is what video format the disc is encoded in (50Hz aka PAL or 60Hz aka NTSC), how your player replays discs in either format, and what your TV accepts.


1. Some players will only play 60Hz NTSC discs or 50Hz PAL discs. Often it is the more expensive "branded" players that only play one format. It appears that this restriction is stronger in the US than in Europe where 60Hz discs without regional-restrictions are not uncommon. This is particularly common on HD format players that also play DVDs.


2. Some players will replay 50Hz discs in PAL composite/S-video (and component / RGB / HDMI 50Hz in some cases) and will replay 60Hz discs in NTSC composite/s-video (and component / RGB / HDMI 60Hz - as well as a strange hybrid PAL 60Hz or NTSC 4.43MHz 60Hz format in Europe sometimes) This is where the player just outputs the same format video as is on the disc. To play all format discs with this style of player, you need a display that will accept both refresh rates - 50Hz and 60Hz - and the colour formats being used to output the discs when replayed in either format (PAL for 50Hz, NTSC for 60Hz, PAL 60 for 60Hz, NTSC 4.43 for 60Hz, RGB / Component / HDMI for both 50Hz and 60Hz etc.)


3. Other players will do the above, but additionally will convert 50Hz discs to 60Hz or 60Hz discs to 50Hz. This means that you could replay both 50Hz PAL and 60Hz NTSC discs as either 50Hz PAL or 60Hz NTSC discs - with the player doing the field-rate conversion internally. This conversion significantly reduces the picture quality - both in resolution and motion terms in my experience. Not a good "Home Theater" solution - but if you need to watch something quickly and guarantee you can play back any disc on any display - then a good solution. (I have a cheap US-bought portable player that can do this)


4. Many brand-name US TVs will only accept 60Hz inputs - which means NTSC composite/S-video or 60Hz component/HDMI. Players that output 50Hz video (PAL composite/S-video or 50Hz component/HDMI) will often cause an error message to be displayed, a blue-screen or in some cases a black and white picture. The latter is often the case when the TV will lock to 50Hz video, but has no PAL decoder (so will often deliver colour if HDMI or component inputs are used). Some non-brand name displays have systems that will lock to both 50Hz and 60Hz inputs - and also include PAL/SECAM colour decoders. Similarly almost all SDTVs sold in Europe are 50/60Hz compatible and include NTSC, PAL and SECAM decoders. All "HD Ready" European HDTVs have to accept 50Hz and 60Hz 720p and 1080i HD video via HDMI and component to be licensed "HD Ready".


If you have a 60Hz only display - then the only replay solution is to find a DVD player that will convert 50Hz video to output it at 60Hz. Expect a quality drop in this conversion.


If you only have a few discs and don't mind too much about quality - then buying a cheap multi-region player that will convert between video formats will be the most cost-effective solution.


If you have a lot of 50Hz (aka PAL) content though, and care about picture quality, then buying a display that has 50Hz compatibility would be the better quality route (though more expensive) Some US displays won't support composite/S-video PAL outputs - and instead display a black and white picture (as they lock to 50Hz but don't have a PAL colour decoder) - however switching to component inputs can often solve this (as component doesn't use PAL or NTSC chroma - just 50Hz or 60Hz refresh)


Also - note that this isn't a Region 1 vs Region 2 issue - it is a "PAL" vs "NTSC" issue (or more accurately a 50Hz vs 60Hz issue). Region 2 includes both Europe and Japan - Europe is 50Hz/"PAL" and Japan is 60Hz/"NTSC" - so a Region 2 disc can be either format. Similarly it is possible to have non-regionally encoded discs (sometimes called Region 0) in either format.

 

[Church AV Guy]



Quote:
...it is a "PAL" vs "NTSC" issue (or more accurately a 50Hz vs 60Hz issue).

It's more than just 50 vs 60 Hz. Isn't Pal 576i, where NTSC is 480i, so there is an issue of 96 or so scan lines difference too. That's picture information lost in the PAL->NTSC conversion, isn't it? Interesting that 480 times 60 is the same as 576 times 50.

 

[ernie6]

You need one or the other to play/display PAL DVDs:


A region-free player that includes a video converter

or

Off brand LCD, Vizio, Westinghouse, etc., that can display both NTSC and PAL.


The Vizio will work with the unit you changed to region-free, region "0", because it can correctly display PAL. The nice thing is the Vizio will analyze the incoming signal and automatically switch to NTSC or PAL.

 

[sneals2000]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy /forum/post/16901791


It's more than just 50 vs 60 Hz. Isn't Pal 576i, where NTSC is 480i, so there is an issue of 96 or so scan lines difference too. That's picture information lost in the PAL->NTSC conversion, isn't it? Interesting that 480 times 60 is the same as 576 times 50.

Yep - by 50Hz I was using sloppy shorthand for 625/576i 50Hz and by 60Hz I was using sloppy shorthand for 525/480i 60Hz.


PAL analogue is usually 575i not 576i as well - the two half-lines remain half-lines in analogue land, are are only expanded to full-lines in digital systems AIUI.


And PAL isn't always 575i - there is the 480i variant used in Brazil (PAL M), with a 3.57ishMHz subcarrier. There are 575i implementations in other South American countries (PAL N) that also use a 3.58ishMHz carrier (similar to the 3.58MHz NTSC) rather than the 4.43MHz carrier (as used by 576/50i PAL countries in Europe, Asia, Australasia etc.) so that they can use a lower vision bandwith.


(The UK nearly went with 405/377i line NTSC with a 2.66MHz subcarrier, to upgrade our original 405 line VHF B&W system to colour - and also looked closely at 625/575i NTSC with a 4.43ishMHz subcarrier... In fact a lot of the very early BBC in-house 625/575i PAL kit was hastily modified from 625/575i NTSC kit...)