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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Having had no luck getting the Telemann HiPix DTV-200 card to work with my Windows 2000/Radeon All-In-Wonder HTPC, I spent a good part of my Sunday getting my Sony TiVo SVR-2000 mated to my RCA DTC-100 so that I could at least have SOME method of recording until a better solution materializes. After many hours of tweaking and swearing and pulling out what is left of my hair, all I have to say is BLEECH.


In case anyone hasn't figured this out yet, the SVR-2000 and the DTC-100 do not play nice together. The DTC-100 has no serial port control, which means that you must use the TiVo infrared blaster to control the RCA STB. This was my first stumbling block... why haven't any of the forum members who claim they've gotten these two boxes working together post the @#$! IR codes?! It's RCA 10015 Medium, folks, and you have to point the IR dongle at the "Menu/OK" button on the DTC-100. THERE.


The next stumbling block I encountered was figuring out whether to tell TiVo to use satellite alone or satellite + antenna. Stupid me, I thought that since I was using DirecTV and OTA HDTV that I should pick the latter option. WRONG. If you choose satellite + antenna, all channels below 100 are assumed by the idiot TiVo box to be coming in over ITS NTSC tuner. Grr. So I picked "Satellite" the second time I ran guided setup.


Next, and no surprise, I found out that TiVo does not have listings for my local HDTV OTA channels. For example, the local SDTV network channels 4, 5, 7, 9 and 26 have EDTV/HDTV equivalents of 48, 36, 39, 34, and 27 respectively. But of course, TiVo knows nothing of these channels, and there is no way to manually program TiVo to map the NTSC channels over to their ATSC counterparts. As a result, 90% of my TiVo entries are manual recordings. TiVo is no better than a hard-disk recorder in this mode; I get no program guides, favorites, etc., etc. In other words, 90% of my $9.95 monthly subscription is useless.


The worst stumbling block of all, though, was that the TiVo has no way of controlling the DTC-100's "Input" switch, which toggles the RCA box between the DirecTV antenna and the two OTA antennas. This is a huge problem... I have to manually switch the RCA box back and forth between DirecTV and the OTA antenna so that TiVo can record. My workaround for this problem is truly ugly: Once a week I'm going to have to sit down and see what TiVo has scheduled for me on DirecTV (since that is the only variable part of my recording schedule), and then I'll have to use the eight RCA timers to switch the input mode back and forth between DirecTV and OTA. As I said above: BLEECH.


There must be a better way to get the SVR-2000 and the DTC-100 to work together. I was hoping the latest TiVo software version 2.0 upgrade (which I received last Thursday) would address some of these issues, but no such luck. (In fact, the s-video picture quality is worse with the new software update, but that's a bi*ch for a different thread. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/mad.gif ) I could live without the program guides, but the lack of auto-switching the DTC-100 inputs is just plain unacceptable. I really do hope that either accessDTV turns out to be a viable solution or that the ever-elusive Zenith high-def TiVo-like device becomes a reality, because this setup... well...


sucks.


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Scott Gammans

Another satisfied NEC VT540 owner
The Scooterplex Cinema 1


[This message has been edited by Scott Gammans (edited 03-26-2001).]


[This message has been edited by Scott Gammans (edited 03-26-2001).]
 

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Get a regular satellite receiver that has a control connector on the back so that you don't have to use the IR blaster. Pay DirecTV $5 per month for the extra receiver dedicated to the TiVo.


Also see the TiVo group for a current thread that includes pointers on how to get downscaled HDTV into your TiVo, but you may be right that the DTC100 just isn't suited for it.



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Abdul

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yeah, with the input button needed to switch between different antenna signals, the DTC is not a great fit if you are actually using both. one of the newer STB's that have an integrated program guide might be better for you, though in your case I'm not sure you could feed both antenna signals at all, even with a fancy signal combiner.


All told, I agree that your best bet is to buy a cheap receiver which can be a full-time slave to the TiVo. Alternately, to get a DirecTiVo.


dinesh



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DVI/HDCP sucks. DFAST sucks. Boycott JVC.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I don't even have to buy the receiver... I already have an extra DirecTV 18" dish that is no longer being used now that I have the 24" oval DirecTV Plus dish, and I have the old Sony NTSC DirecTV receiver that went with that round dish.


Here's the problem (and I'm writing this here at work on my lunch hour so I can't peek behind the TiVo to confirm, but I'm 99% sure I'm right): Even if I have two receivers (the old DirecTV receiver for NTSC DirecTV programs, the DTC-100 for ATSC stuff), the TiVo only has one s-video input. How do I switch between the two? Answer: Buy another TiVo. Oh yeah, and how do I handle the problem of switching between HBO-HD and OTA HDTV? Answer: Buy another DTC-100 and ANOTHER TiVo! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/eek.gif


Ree-dickerous. I refuse to spend penny one on more NTSC recording equipment with so many true HDTV recording solutions around the corner. Unless there were some way to get my hands on a cheap (and I do mean CHEAP) used TiVo, I think I'll just bide my time and wait for accessDTV and/or Zenith to get their acts together.


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Scott Gammans

Another satisfied NEC VT540 owner
The Scooterplex Cinema 1


[This message has been edited by Scott Gammans (edited 03-27-2001).]
 

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Huh? Scott, you need to rethink this. It is unimportant how many inputs the TiVo has. Run an output from the TiVo and an output from your DTC100 into either your TV or else into your receiver and then take a single S-video output and run it into your TV. The HD output of the DTC100 should naturally go straight into the TV, if it's an HD-ready TV.


Also, if you can get locals on DirecTV, and if you can still return your stand-alone TiVo, do so and get a DirecTV Tivo. It's much better - 30+ hours at perfect quality.


To make switching between different sources a breeze, get a universal remote with macro ability. Buy a Cinema 7 or Radio Shack 15-1994 to start with.


-Abdul



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Abdul

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:
Huh?
Abdul, I don't believe you understand. Most of the time I watch over-the-air and satellite HDTV live on the DTC-100, but sometimes I can't and I need an interim recording solution until accessDTV/Zenith becomes a reality. Switching the inputs between DirecTV and local HDTV is not controllable by the TiVo. THAT'S the biggest problem.


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Scott Gammans

Another satisfied NEC VT540 owner
The Scooterplex Cinema 1
 

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i am definitely confused too. why do you need to switch anything?


run 2 RG6 cables from the 24" dish to a miltiplexor. Run one lead from the multiplexor to your primary STB. Run it's VGA/component out to your TV for watching HD. Run it's s-video out to your receiver, or to your TV (depending on which has free inputs) for watching "live" SD.


Now, back to the multiplexor. Send another output to your old "slave" receiver. Run its s-video out to the tivo. connect the serial cable between them. Run s-video out from tivo to your receiver or TV.


To watch live HD, set your TV input to the HD input. To watch live SD, set it to the DTC-100 s-video input (or to the TiVo input if it's not recording anything, but let's ignore this). To watch something recorded on TiVo, set it to the TiVo input.


The only thing I'm not taking into account here is the antenna. Do you need it for recording analog locals through the TiVo? As you mentioned, the TiVo is incapable of recording any digital locals (even in SD) because it doesn't have any listing data for them. Though I suppose you could have it do manual records?


Anyway, if you do need to record your analog locals through the TiVo, then (and my expertise is on shaky ground here) you need to split and share the antenna feed to both the DTC and the TiVo inputs. I know there are probably issues with this, but I'm guessing it's possible, somehow.


dinesh



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DVI/HDCP sucks. DFAST sucks. Boycott JVC.
 

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I can't understand you, but maybe you can understand me. Here is my setup:
Code:
Code:
*****
                  *DSS*
                  *****
           ANT     S A 
              \\    | | 
               \\   | | 
                \\  V V 
         ****** ****** ***** ***** *******
         *VCR1* *TiVo* *DSS* *PS2*=*IR543*
         ****** ****** ***** ***** *******
          C  A   S  A   S D    D Y
          |  |   |  |   | |    |  \\
          |  |   |  |   | |    |   \\
          V  V   V  V   V V    V    \\
         Video1 Video2 Video3 CD/DVD \\
       ****************************** |
       *  Kenwood VR-407 Receiver   * |
       ****************************** |
             C        S              /
             |        |             / 
             |        |            |
             V        V            V
         Composite S-Video Component
         ***************************
         *     DVDO iScan Pro      *
         ***************************
                    Y
                    |
                    |
                    V
         ***********************
         * Philips 60PP9601 TV *
         ***********************

KEY:

A = Analog Audio
D = Digital Audio
C = Composite Video
S = S-Video
Y = Component Video
V = down arrow
Your DTC100 would be like my second DSS box, but it's really hooked up more like my PS2. I could have done the same thing without the DVDO iScan Pro, using one composite, one S-video, and one component connection on the back of my TV.



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Abdul

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[This message has been edited by Abdul Jalib (edited 03-27-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Dinesh, Abdul,


I appreciate you taking the time to describe/diagram your solutions, but I'm afraid that you still don't understand what I am trying to accomplish.
  • The DTC-100 is the only HDTV satellite (DirecTV) receiver that I have.
  • The DTC-100 is also the only HDTV over-the-air receiver that I have.
  • I want to record 16:9 HDTV satellite downcoverted to 480i on the TiVo.
  • I want to record 16:9 HDTV over-the-air downcoverted to 480i on the TiVo.
  • I do not want to use the TiVo antenna input for anything... it's a plain old NTSC tuner that would only pick up the local 4:3 analog SDTV channels, none of which I'm interested in.
  • I do not want to have to keep programming the DTC-100 to switch its input between the DirecTV Plus oval HDTV dish and the UHF antenna that is pulling in over-the-air HDTV.


A bit more explanation of the DTC-100 "Input" switch: The DTC-100 does not have an integrated program guide for DirecTV and local over-the-air signals (be they SDTV or HDTV). In order to toggle between local and satellite broadcasts, one must press the DTC-100's "Input" switch.


For example, if I am watching DirecTV channel 509 (HBO-HD) and I wish to change channels to 34-1 (local CBS HDTV), I must press Input-3-4-OK (not necessary to enter the sub-channel). I cannot just press 3-4-OK, because then the DTC-100 will simply try to change channels to satellite channel 34. It will not automagically change the input source to the local UHF antenna, even though it should know that any channel number below 100 is not going to be a satellite signal.


And therein lies the whole problem with TiVo integration. Since I have regularly scheduled programs on both DirecTV and local HDTV, and since the TiVo only "knows" how to change channels without sending the all-important "Input" command when necessary, I have to somehow ensure that the DTC-100 is on the correct input source before the TiVo sends, for example, 3-4-OK for a recording.


The only solution I came up with was to manually review the TiVo schedule once a week, note where the input source has to be switched from DirecTV to local UHF (or vice-versa), and program the DTC-100 timers to switch the input before the TiVo recording starts. (I have to do this every week because there are also variably-scheduled DirecTV programs that my partner has entered as Season Passes; e.g., Tracey Takes On, which airs at random times throughout the week.)

NOW. If you know of some hidden service command that will force the DTC-100 to switch its input source to UHF when the channel number is < 100 and DirecTV when the channel number is >= 100, that would solve the "Input" problem. OR, if you know of a hidden service command that will force the TiVo to add the critical "Input" command when necessary to the IR blaster sequences it fires, that would work too. But please don't make any suggestion that involves recording the local SDTV channels on the TiVo's NTSC tuner. I don't care that they're downconverted to 480i when they're recorded--they'll still be much clearer (because they're digital) and they will be in the widescreen 16:9 format (which isn't broadcast on the analog SDTV channels that the TiVo can tune in).


whew.


------------------

Scott Gammans

Another satisfied NEC VT540 owner
The Scooterplex Cinema 1


[This message has been edited by Scott Gammans (edited 03-28-2001).]


[This message has been edited by Scott Gammans (edited 03-28-2001).]
 

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Scott ... I wish I had a good solution to your issues, but all I have is a "thank you" to you for posting the code and ir location for using TiVo with the DTC-100. I havent set mine up yet, and I actually have the Philips version of TiVo and the ProScan version of the DTC-100, but I assume the info will be the same. Thanks!


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Rick W. Scogland

My Email: [email protected]

My Home Theater: http://www.homepagez.com/rscogland/home.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

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Quote:
Originally posted by Scott Gammans:
it should know that any channel number below 100 is not going to be a satellite signal.
Hi Scott,


On my DTC100 there ARE DirecTV channels below 100. These are the local channels (re-broadcast by DirecTV). They appear on the guide even though I don't subscribe to them. I can even access them directly by 2 digit channel number from the remote. If I remember correctly DirecTV has some sort of channel mapping function so that you can access your local channels with their actual channel number. This is a design feature of DirecTV.


I sure you have probably already realized there is likely no soultion to your problem. I have also been considering a Tivo like device, but have never figured out how to get one to work properly with my DTC100. I think the real solution would be a HD version of the DirecTivo that also has a OTA digital tuner. This would provide all of the functionality you desire in one box. I have no idea if this will ever happen though. Good luck and thanks for articulating your situation clearly even though some still did not understand.


Jay

 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Scott Gammans:
Unfortunately (and unless I am mistaken) that feature allows you to enter your local channel number and be directed to the DirecTV rebroadcast of that channel... not the over-the-air ATSC channel (or even the over-the-air NTSC channel
Scott,


That is correct (and that is what I said in my post). The point I was trying to make was that the method you were proposing to solve your problem (having channels less than 100 automatically switch to the antenna input) will not work because there are already DirectTV channels in that range and you would have no way to reach them using your method. I really don't think there is a statisfactory solution to your problem.


Jay
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
There are solutions, but they require buying another TiVo. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif It's a conspiracy amongst Sony and RCA, I tells ya. Oh well, they'll both lose my business once accessDTV and/or the Zenith HD-PVR become a reality.



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Scott Gammans

Another satisfied NEC VT540 owner
The Scooterplex Cinema 1
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Jay,

Quote:
If I remember correctly DirecTV has some sort of channel mapping function so that you can access your local channels with their actual channel number. This is a design feature of DirecTV.
Unfortunately (and unless I am mistaken) that feature allows you to enter your local channel number and be directed to the DirecTV rebroadcast of that channel... not the over-the-air ATSC channel (or even the over-the-air NTSC channel). For example, if I remember correctly the local Washington DC CBS affiliate, channel 9, is on DirecTV at channel 805 (or something like that). Using the channel remapping feature, you could press 9-OK and be taken to channel 805, not the local over-the-air channel 9 and definitely not the local HDTV channel 34-1.


If I'm wrong and there is a way to fool the DTC-100 into bypassing the need for the "Input" switch, please, PLEASE someone tell me how to go about setting this up. Thanks.


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Scott Gammans

Another satisfied NEC VT540 owner
The Scooterplex Cinema 1
 

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You might want to drop into the TiVo Underground forum and bring up this question. I know people have been able to put program data into the TiVo (for example Pay-per-view guide data), that might solve your having to use so many manual records. Also you might be able to hack the IR database to send the input command before certain channels. Go ahead and ask over there you might be suprised.


-apnar
 
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