AVS Forum banner

261 - 280 of 3724 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,573 Posts
Bad news. I was showing at 30fps. When I set at 60fps, the banding shows up. It is very similar to the pictures you posted. Ugh. Not the news I was hoping for.
:( The last piece is to verify the pixel depth. If it is 4:2:0 that sucks. If it is 4:2:2 that is to be expected. The bandwidth on HDMI does not allow more than 10 bit/12 bit 4:2:0 60hz. What player are you using? PC? Did you check your display settings on your device?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,027 Posts
If the answer to that question was yes, then nobody would buy a more expensive projector, if a lower cost one threw just as good of an image. Yes in the fact that they will have the same number of pixels. It is the same with 1080P projectors.
This 1080P projector: https://epson.com/For-Home/Projectors/Home-Cinema/PowerLite-Home-Cinema-1040-1080p-3LCD-Projector/p/V11H772020
is not going to throw the same image as this projector: http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL102506

Both are 1080P projectors, but the higher priced projector has better contrast, better lens and better processing. The higher priced one also has more features.
Yes there's no doubt that those two won't have the same image even though they are both 1080p, i get that. i think you didn't understand my question, you answered they won't be the same in terms of contrast, processing e.t.c But i realise that, and i specified that in my question where i said, "..With the only difference between the two being other picture quality aspects?" My main question was on resolution, "Is it true that even the lowest sony 4k projectors with the lowest lense and panel driver issues will still throw a 4k image just as well as a JVC RS4500 will in terms of both projectors projected images having the exact same number of pixels? I wanted to know if they will both have the same number of pixels, which thank you so much you did answer that yes, in terms of pixels they will both have the exact same number! So it's finally sorted for me, they are all native true 4k projectors and i wish i hadn't ever heard anyone try to say that they aren't, just put me in a huge confusion! :)

Now i just wish farsider3000 hadn't made this statement to you which only contradicts what i now Know about all of them being true 4k projectors, "But I see your point as well, there is no perfect display and even when all projectors have true 4k panels there will be some that look sharper on screen and can resolve more lines of resolution."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Does anyone speak German? Did Ekki or his partner mention any of this in his video showing Billy Lynn?
in the video of heimkinoraum in which billy lynn was taken as an example for 4k 60p content is told that

- the film is running with very fluid pans and steadiness.
- 4k 60p 4:2:0, color space BT.2020 and HDR-Format HDR10 shown in the menus of the projector
- banding not mentioned
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter #264
:( The last piece is to verify the pixel depth. If it is 4:2:0 that sucks. If it is 4:2:2 that is to be expected. The bandwidth on HDMI does not allow more than 10 bit/12 bit 4:2:0 60hz. What player are you using? PC? Did you check your display settings on your device?
I am using an oppo 203. It may have been 4:2:2. How do I change if so?

Juan
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,827 Posts
in the video of heimkinoraum in which billy lynn was taken as an example for 4k 60p content is told that

- the film is running with very fluid pans and steadiness.
- 4k 60p 4:2:0, color space BT.2020 and HDR-Format HDR10 shown in the menus of the projector
- banding not mentioned
At 60p one would expect fluid motion and since the source is 4K 60p 4:2:0 with HDR and REC2020 it's not surprising it shows this in the menu.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,827 Posts
Software or hardware problem? Which films are 60FPS?

Juan
Not many films, but a lot of gamers are interested in this projector and for many that will be a deal breaker. This is more of a software issue where they're incorrectly processing the image that needs to be displayed. It could be the video processing solution is not powerful enough to avoid this issue. They may be forced to do the video processing in 8bit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
433 Posts
I obviously haven't tested one of the new Sony's but I have tested the previous runs. Their lens always had some minor roll off that softens the image a bit. But their panels also had issues. You HAD to setup Reality Creation carefully to get a sharp image. Turning it off would noticeably soften the image with a 4K test pattern or even content. This has always puzzled me as typically you would want any processing OFF for test patterns that deal with resolution. With the RS4500 you can turn everything off and it cruises through 4K test patterns, including single pixel on/off patterns that were mentioned before. I use one all the time for focusing and it is rock solid. The other thing that is interesting about the Sony 4K models is how they do with 1080p test patterns. Put up a single pixel grid pattern at 1080p on one of their projectors and it looks terrible. Banding, color uniformity and absolutely no pixel structure at all. Put the same pattern up on the 4500 and it looks almost identical to a 1080p projector that displays it perfectly, only slightly wider lines. The difference is MASSIVE.
That's not the whole truth. I think Sony did make some changes to the VW1100 that wasn't in the first VW1000, picture quality got worse.
The sky seegs is showing hasn't ever look like this on my VW1000
Her is a link to download 4K pattern I took from my VW1000

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hh4nqo3xlvosspj/VW1000ES.jpeg?dl=0

As you can see there is nothing wrong there.

RC is turned off, I can't see any bettering with it on on 4K.
Test pattern in 1080p doesn't introduce any color moire whatsoever

Have you seen patterns on the VW5000?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter #272
One other thing I forgot to mention my 40 ft HDMI cable stopped working when I selected 60 FPS. I had to use a shorter cable then it started to work
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,827 Posts
That's not the whole truth. I think Sony did make some changes to the VW1100 that wasn't in the first VW1000, picture quality got worse.
The sky seegs is showing hasn't ever look like this on my VW1000
Her is a link to download 4K pattern I took from my VW1000

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hh4nqo3xlvosspj/VW1000ES.jpeg?dl=0

As you can see there is nothing wrong there.

RC is turned off, I can't see any bettering with it on on 4K.
Test pattern in 1080p doesn't introduce any color moire whatsoever

Have you seen patterns on the VW5000?
Do you still have your 1000ES? It would be interesting to see what the checkerboard pattern looks like on the 1000ES. You can see it here:

https://i.imgur.com/sLK9bUL.png

You can find it above and below the RGB ramps in that image.

It's still interesting to see the banding and discoloration in your photo. You can see it in the grey boxes. This is something I always see on these Sony 4K models. I also want to point out that the lines we can easily see in your photo are not single pixel white/black lines. Those are multiple pixel lined wide on/off black and white lines. In the photo I've just linked to, there are single pixel white and black lines adjacent to the checkerboard pattern. To see how the 1000ES displays those lines up close is a real test of resolution capabilities. I have no doubt the lens is capable of resolving them, but can the panels?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,269 Posts
That's not the whole truth. I think Sony did make some changes to the VW1100 that wasn't in the first VW1000, picture quality got worse.
The sky seegs is showing hasn't ever look like this on my VW1000
Her is a link to download 4K pattern I took from my VW1000

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hh4nqo3xlvosspj/VW1000ES.jpeg?dl=0

As you can see there is nothing wrong there.

RC is turned off, I can't see any bettering with it on on 4K.
Test pattern in 1080p doesn't introduce any color moire whatsoever

Have you seen patterns on the VW5000?

I never had a chance to review the VW1000 in its original form, but I reviewed the 1100ES and it had issues. Same with the 665 I reviewed and a 675 I setup recently. I didn't get the chance to look at these same patterns with a 5000ES. I've only been around one once, I helped Ken Whitcomb set one up at Axpona this year, but I didn't have the chance to put it through normal review paces. I would love the opportunity, but I'm not aware of anyone in my area that has one that I could get access to. I remember someone sending me a PM at one point saying that if I turned off some setting in the service menu, it should fix the issues I was seeing at the time. I did, and it didn't.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
433 Posts
Do you still have your 1000ES? It would be interesting to see what the checkerboard pattern looks like on the 1000ES. You can see it here:

https://i.imgur.com/sLK9bUL.png

You can find it above and below the RGB ramps in that image.

It's still interesting to see the banding and discoloration in your photo. You can see it in the grey boxes. This is something I always see on these Sony 4K models.
The boxes with full 50% where you say you see banding, it is introduced in the jpeg foto from the iPhone, in real there is only lines, with reduced contrast.
4K checkerboard is resolved so I can see the individual pixels clearly.
The only thing I can see on the checkerboard is again some contrast loss and some slight violet color introduced by bandwidth limitations.

Unfortunately I have not the 1000 in my house any more, but I have still access to it, but not just around the corner.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
433 Posts
I never had a chance to review the VW1000 in its original form, but I reviewed the 1100ES and it had issues. Same with the 665 I reviewed and a 675 I setup recently. I didn't get the chance to look at these same patterns with a 5000ES. I've only been around one once, I helped Ken Whitcomb set one up at Axpona this year, but I didn't have the chance to put it through normal review paces. I would love the opportunity, but I'm not aware of anyone in my area that has one that I could get access to. I remember someone sending me a PM at one point saying that if I turned off some setting in the service menu, it should fix the issues I was seeing at the time. I did, and it didn't.
One the later Sonys there is always some form of processing going on no matter what you do and there for the color moire is always present in some form on 4K patterns.
 
261 - 280 of 3724 Posts
Top