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what will be the effect with the hd fury?
The HDFury can help in stripping off HDR while still keeping the wide color gamut! And many prefer this to HDR on projectors since most projectors aren't bright enough to really display HDR. Projectors such as JVC's pixel shifter have been confirmed to work with the HDFury and people have got good results, but i don't really know if these sony's will be able to work with the HDFury to do that, i sure do hope so!
 

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For what it's worth, I specifically asked the Sony representative in the Sony booth at CEDIA if the 285 and 385 could play Billy Lynne on 4K Blu-ray. And the rep answered that they selected the speed of these chips explicitly so that they could get every drop out of 4K 60p HDR Blu-ray discs and that,"Yes, Billy Lynne will play at its highest quality."

I'm not really interested in playing Billy Lynne. But I do want to know that the new Apple TV 4K can stream 4K HDR movies to this projector. And since I know Apple TV 4K is going to send out 60P instead of 24P, I am worried this could be a problem.
To me its a sign of future proofing. The device needs to meet that standard. A large chunk of streaming is 4k now. Most would argue you get a more of a benefit from the WCG\HDR than the resolution. Obviously banding is a problem. My thoughts at this point are its most likely an issue with PS4 Pro. Sounds like Ekki was able to play a 60fps source at 4k w/HDR.

Hard to tell. There is a youtube video going around in German that claims blu-ray UHD [email protected] HDR10 looks fantastic, very smooth motion and no banding issues. Then there is Chrismann who speaks German and said that Ekki's video does not mention any issues with [email protected] HDR10 Blu-ray content.

There is also Sony's own website http://www.sonypremiumhome.com/projectors/VPL-VW385ES.php where it states in bold text.

"Enjoy all types of content in 4K HDR

4K HDR 60p 10bit (for HDR10/HLG) compatible so you can enjoy gaming and other high frame rate content in 4K HDR."

Then there is Juan's test where he says he see's banding. So who really knows? The new 4K Apple TV hasn't even been released yet. Eventually, we will find out what the issues are.

Could be software, could be cables, could be improper settings, it could be the projector hardware?

Also consider that the current 675ES supposedly has the exact same hardware and it streams NVidea Chromecast [email protected] HDR10 fine.
I wish Sony would get the manual out. They are also clearly show 8bit @ 60fps in 4k. http://www.sonypremiumhome.com/projectors/VPL-VW385ES.php I realize this could be wrong but even 1 report is enough I want this clarified.

I'm not at all surprised by this statement. Lately he has been very pro-Sony and seems to be much more critical on JVC. If you check cine4home the most recent article is an almost sarcastic take on how JVC, or at least this is they way I'm reading it, is trying to take last years models and are essentially giving them a new model name while only adding some small software tweaks. He's made some posts here on the forum saying the same thing right after CEDIA and IFA. I agree there are small changes, but I mean you could say the same thing about these new Sony models. The 385ES and 285ES are all pretty much the same exact projector as last years models with some extremely minor differences (lamp wattage, lens iris and some software omissions) and yet I see no article about that. Like Sony, JVC has also reduced the prices of their projectors, the exception being the lowest end model which I think most would agree was already priced extremely well.
I don't feel this way at all. Even ProjectorReview, "Here’s my message to the LCD and DLP manufacturers. It’s time to stop screwing around, and give us true 4K chips. Want to add pixel shifting to those 4K chips (or panels if you prefer), sure, I like pixel shifting, but its time to get real serious. We all want the maximum sharpness to go with our HDR contrast, and BT.2020 color space, and a whole lot of us are waiting to buy, until you deliver that at a reasonable price!". It isn't biased against anyone, damn 8k is on the horizon and only Sony is putting out 4k chips. I am surprised you don't agree that dropping entry level 4k device $3000 with improved lens, HDMI, or the $8000 variant that almost matches the former $15,000 model with IRIS, increased HDMI bandwidth wasn't more of a step forward than JVC has done. At least on paper. JVC got sharper eshift5? Its just not going to cut it anymore and folks are going to be really upset with new professional reviews that will start dinging them for this as they have said as much.

A smack against Sony imo is them saying crap like their chip is to take full advantage of 4k 60FPS. Negative, if that was the case it'd have 18gbps and no one would be questioning the banding. Of course, if they had proper information that matched on their websites or a manual that explained issues that may be user inflicted that can cause banding that'd be a different story. I call them unprofessional for that, they are the ones saying "available at all authorized retailers now!" And then saying these aren't available anywhere to sellers (while some shipped from Amazon). Hard to put much stock into what they say without doing the work and clearing it up yourself.
 

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But if you are able to select 4k 60 without hdr won't mmmmmm you won't need a hd fury right?
I don't know that tbh, some players such as oppo will let you turn off HDR i think but as far as Games are concerned, i really don't know if the playstation 4 pro and xbox one s/X will let you turn off HDR and just game at 4k sdr rec 709. I'm sure someone here more well informed on the topic will chime in and help with that info :)
 

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To me its a sign of future proofing. The device needs to meet that standard. A large chunk of streaming is 4k now. Most would argue you get a more of a benefit from the WCG\HDR than the resolution. Obviously banding is a problem. My thoughts at this point are its most likely an issue with PS4 Pro. Sounds like Ekki was able to play a 60fps source at 4k w/HDR.



I wish Sony would get the manual out. They are also clearly show 8bit @ 60fps in 4k. http://www.sonypremiumhome.com/projectors/VPL-VW385ES.php I realize this could be wrong but even 1 report is enough I want this clarified.



I don't feel this way at all. Even ProjectorReview, "Here’s my message to the LCD and DLP manufacturers. It’s time to stop screwing around, and give us true 4K chips. Want to add pixel shifting to those 4K chips (or panels if you prefer), sure, I like pixel shifting, but its time to get real serious. We all want the maximum sharpness to go with our HDR contrast, and BT.2020 color space, and a whole lot of us are waiting to buy, until you deliver that at a reasonable price!". It isn't biased against anyone, damn 8k is on the horizon and only Sony is putting out 4k chips. I am surprised you don't agree that dropping entry level 4k device $3000 with improved lens, HDMI, or the $8000 variant that almost matches the former $15,000 model with IRIS, increased HDMI bandwidth wasn't more of a step forward than JVC has done. At least on paper. JVC got sharper eshift5? Its just not going to cut it anymore and folks are going to be really upset with new professional reviews that will start dinging them for this as they have said as much.

A smack against Sony imo is them saying crap like their chip is to take full advantage of 4k 60FPS. Negative, if that was the case it'd have 18gbps and no one would be questioning the banding. Of course, if they had proper information that matched on their websites or a manual that explained issues that may be user inflicted that can cause banding that'd be a different story. I call them unprofessional for that, they are the ones saying "available at all authorized retailers now!" And then saying these aren't available anywhere to sellers (while some shipped from Amazon). Hard to put much stock into what they say without doing the work and clearing it up yourself.
That's very true, the 18gbs chipset is a real miss, and it's ridiculous. Scott said he asked them about it and they said it is to save cost, but even scott couldn't believe it, he mentioned that even the 100$ nvidia shield has a 18gbs hdmi so how expensive could it really be? It doesn't make sense. They just want their customers to constantly be upgrading!
 

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I think it's obvious that something in the processing chain makes the point of just slapping a 18gb chipset in there moot. Meaning the bottleneck is somewhere else.

None of this really surprises me. It's not like this model year has be redesigned from the ground up. But I'm fine with the compromises made since I'm otherwise getting the image characteristics I want.

Personally I'm for stripping out HDR whenever possible as I just don't find it all that compelling on a projector. If that gives the limited bandwidth on this projector more wiggle room with 4k/60 I'm all for it.
 

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The HDFury can help in stripping off HDR while still keeping the wide color gamut! And many prefer this to HDR on projectors since most projectors aren't bright enough to really display HDR. Projectors such as JVC's pixel shifter have been confirmed to work with the HDFury and people have got good results, but i don't really know if these sony's will be able to work with the HDFury to do that, i sure do hope so!

The HDFury linker doesn't strip off HDR (HDR is cooked into UHD BD's) it helps trick specific UHD players into mapping HDR->SDR gamma while retaining WCG. There is only 1 player that does a great job, the Panasonic UB900. Oppo 203 has the ability built in but it has issues with black crush and other anomalies. it's documented here:


most JVC owners don't do this anymore, there are now custom HDR gamma curves that can work for the majority of setups. this is a powerful feature I'd like to see Sony implement in their image director software.

The HDFury Linker (and upcoming Vertex) + Panasonic UB900 is a good combo for SDR/WCG with UHD BD content. It's not designed to be used in conjunction with PC's or gaming consoles.
 

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I think it's obvious that something in the processing chain makes the point of just slapping a 18gb chipset in their moot. Meaning the bottleneck is somewhere else.

None of this really surprises me. It's not like this model year has be redesigned from the ground up. But I'm fine with the compromises made since I'm otherwise getting the image characteristics I want.

Personally I'm for stripping out HDR whenever possible as I just don't find it all that compelling on a projector. If that gives the limited bandwidth on this projector more wiggle room with 4k/60 I'm all for it.
No doubt it was an expense on the HDMI. Shame but if 13.5 gets it done its Sony gets the last laugh. I agree though, this has the features I need/want for the most part. I'll feel a lot better about the 4k 60hz HDR though.
 

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I'm looking forward to testing my Sony UHD player. It's the entry level one. I forget the model number because it's been gathering dust for 3-4 months...

If I remember correctly it would allow you to turn HDR off and had a slider to adjust the image. But I didn't play with it much as overall I found UHD discs on my previous RS420 to be disappointing. Which has more to do we the nature of the format right now than with the JVC. Although I understand some of the home brew tweaks I never got to try may have helped.
 

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I'm looking forward to testing my Sony UHD player. It's the entry level one. I forget the model number because it's been gathering dust for 3-4 months...

If I remember correctly it would allow you to turn HDR off and had a slider to adjust the image. But I didn't play with it much as overall I found UHD discs on my previous RS420 to be disappointing. Which has more to do we the nature of the format right now than with the JVC. Although I understand some of the home brew tweaks I never got to try may have helped.
Meanwhile I'm just trying to secure a preorder lol. I have time to find a deal I like though. Sooner is better than later but a few months down the road won't bother me.
 

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The HDFury linker doesn't strip off HDR (HDR is cooked into UHD BD's) it helps trick specific UHD players into mapping HDR->SDR gamma while retaining WCG. There is only 1 player that does a great job, the Panasonic UB900. Oppo 203 has the ability built in but it has issues with black crush and other anomalies. it's documented here:


most JVC owners don't do this anymore, there are now custom HDR gamma curves that can work for the majority of setups. this is a powerful feature I'd like to see Sony implement in their image director software.

The HDFury Linker (and upcoming Vertex) + Panasonic UB900 is a good combo for SDR/WCG with UHD BD content. It's not designed to be used in conjunction with PC's or gaming consoles.
Are you 100% sure about that? I've heard many people say this is a real possibility. If what you are saying is true then it would be a REAL bummer since it would mean no gaming with wide color gamut unless we're ready to suffer through banding!! :confused::(
 

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Are you 100% sure about that? I've heard many people say this is a real possibility. If what you are saying is true then it would be a REAL bummer since it would mean no gaming with wide color gamut unless we're ready to suffer through banding!! :confused::(
You're assuming the projector has an issue. We know the PS4 Pro does. Who knows about Xbox One X.
 

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Are you 100% sure about that? I've heard many people say this is a real possibility. If what you are saying is true then it would be a REAL bummer since it would mean no gaming with wide color gamut unless we're ready to suffer through banding!! :confused::(

send me a link please where folks are discussing using the HDFury products in that manner. It is not a converter in any regard, it helps manipulate the EDID information and with specific players like the UB900, you can get SDR/BT2020 from UHD content. This doesn't work with all players. For example, when combined with the Xbox one, the player will output R709, not BT2020. Same thing with the Oppo 203.
 

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You're assuming the projector has an issue. We know the PS4 Pro does. Who knows about Xbox One X.
Yes you are indeed right, really hope the xbox one x works without the banding. But there's still a huge miss with the ps4 pro. That being said, i still don't think there's a better deal on the market, sony knows that and they just took advantage of that knowing we won't have another choice if we want true 4k! Really very uncool sony :(
 

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send me a link please where folks are discussing using the HDFury products in that manner. It is not a converter in any regard, it helps manipulate the EDID information and with specific players like the UB900, you can get SDR/BT2020 from UHD content. This doesn't work with all players. For example, when combined with the Xbox one, the player will output R709, not BT2020. Same thing with the Oppo 203.
I don't remember but i think it was somewhere on the epson 5040 thread, i was even discussing the possibility with some people and i was never given the impression that it won't work. So we can't do sdr bt2020 after all for games, kind of a bummer, but i'm still sticking with the sony because my main interest is uhd movies! Even though i game alot! But still, for this price i think it's worth the slight dissapointment, atleast for me.
 

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Doesnt the PS4 Pro allow you to toggle HDR off independently? It's been awhile and not sure I'll even see the option on the menu until I get a 4k display hooked up again.
 

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Yes you are indeed right, really hope the xbox one x works without the banding. But there's still a huge miss with the ps4 pro. That being said, i still don't think there's a better deal on the market, sony knows that and they just took advantage of that knowing we won't have another choice if we want true 4k! Really very uncool sony :(
If the 4k line hits 60hz, 4k @ 10bit HDR no banding and low input lag like they've said they've satisfied the gamer market and they get the last laugh. Its up to owners to prove these work. I personally think that will happen but banding reports worry me though I believe that lies with PS4 Pro and potential settings changes with help instances like Juan (not PS4). Having said that I wouldnt be surprised if banding was an issue because Sonys website says as much (8 bit @ 60fps 4k). Time will tell. I know with certainty Greg and AMartin56 will put theirs through the grinder as I will once I secure one.

One other thing I am hoping for is to see what percentage of DCI P3 is covered. Hoping 90+.
 

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Doesnt the PS4 Pro allow you to toggle HDR off independently? It's been awhile and not sure I'll even see the option on the menu until I get a 4k display hooked up again.
Now that you mention it i actually remember some people saying the ps4 pro actually let's you choose between 4k sdr and 1080p hdr or something like that!! That's how i think some people with epson faux k projectors use the ps4 pro! Can anyone please confirm?
 

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If the 4k line hits 60hz, 4k @ 10bit HDR no banding and low input lag like they've said they've satisfied the gamer market and they get the last laugh. Its up to owners to prove these work. I personally think that will happen but banding reports worry me though I believe that lies with PS4 Pro and potential settings changes with help instances like Juan (not PS4). Having said that I wouldnt be surprised if banding was an issue because Sonys website says as much (8 bit @ 60fps 4k). Time will tell. I know with certainty Greg and AMartin56 will put theirs through the grinder as I will once I secure one.

One other thing I am hoping for is to see what percentage of DCI P3 is covered. Hoping 90+.
Yes indeed, since there have been many reports of problems like these withe ps4 pro it might be that it's just the pro to blame! And as you said we'll know for sure once everyone starts getting their units and doing the testing, which i will be highly be anticipating the reports from you fine gentlemen as i myself can't make my order right this moment!
 

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Doesnt the PS4 Pro allow you to toggle HDR off independently? It's been awhile and not sure I'll even see the option on the menu until I get a 4k display hooked up again.
Yup. Still don't like seeing all the 8 bit talk @ 60hz in the 385ES brochures and spec sheets. :(
 
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