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Discussion Starter #1
I am KILLING myself trying to decide on what to do for sound proofing and that step is next! I really need your help...


If any of you have been following my thread, you know most details on the size, location and equiptment I will be using but in case you aren't familiar, here are the details...


Room is just about 18' x 10'.5" x 7'.5", I have 4 can lights in the ceiling above screen the wall and one outlet for the projector. The room is in the basement, two walls are built against concrete and the other two go out to the basement while the ceiling goes to the kitchen.


Now, what I'm trying to do is keep general noise out of the room, people talking upstairs if there are any, washing machine/dryer when running but most likely not during the movie, etc. The room is in the basement so I'm not too worried about outside outside noise getting in, but I am also worried about mids and highs getting out and heard upstairs. Note, I'm only worried about the mids and the highs because of the IB setup (the basement is my "box")


Now, I'm trying to think of the future here but I still don't want to go crazy. Right now I live alone, if I have company over while watching a movie downstairs, they will be there with me. But for future purposes, I think some sound proofing will be a good idea.


Another thing that is hurting me is the size of the room. If I do clips, channels, DD and GG, thats a good 3.5" off of each wall which shaves my ceiling height and isle width a good amount. So, if I can save money and space by doing less sound proofing but still get adequate results, I will be uber happy.


For the sake of example, lets say I was going from a single layer of drywall to DD/GG and we cut down the noise that reaches the outside of the room by 10db. Now, if I go from a single layer of drywall to clips and channels along with DD/GG, will that give me an extra 10db reduction? Basically, would both options together greatly improve the "sound reduction" to the outside or just a little?


Sorry for babbling on, it's hard to put my questions and thoughts into tiny paragraphs :p
 

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Don't know if I can comment on your build strategy, but I am dealing with the same issues in the build of my own theater. Working out the final details with the contractor, but I have similar issues in that the room is starting tight (15" x 23') and I can't afford to give up width to accommodate soundproofing. My room is on the ground floor and I am worried about sound getting out to the neighbors late at night. I am going to use Quietrock drywall ( www.quietrock.com ) placed on 24" studs over nearly all of the walls and ceilings. They recommend that spacing to allow the walls to move slightly internally while they absorb the sound. It comes in various grades costing from about $40 per sheet to over $300 for THX certified material. It is pricey stuff but since you are putting up drywall and are worried only about the walls to the basement and the ceiling, it might be worth looking in to it for your application. I am likely going with the 5/8 ES product for most of the walls (about $80 per sheet) although I may upgrade around the speaker areas in the front. If you are a DIY'er and can spend the time I know there are many clever ways to use normal drywall for soundproofing, but most of it is labor intensive, and as you noted, take up extremely valuable space in the room. I am trading the extra labor for the cost of the soundproof drywall and think I am better off that way. YMMV.


There are several old threads on this issue

AVS Thread...Quietrock and soundproofing


in which you will find a lot of opinions and maybe some help. I think the ES product is new and was not around when most of that thread discussion took place.


Don't forget to check the 'stickies' for a thread too.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the link! I appreciate the idea of the Quietrock but it's a bit out of my price range. But, in my lunch break searching, I found a way to do clips and channels on the ceiling without loosing the height, so, I WILL be doing RSIC-V's or similiar with 7/8" furring channel and DD/GG on the ceiling



Now, how bad will the flanking be from the sound traveling up the studs of the 4 surrounding walls to the upstairs? Should I really consider DD/GG on those walls as well or will high and mid frequency flanking be minimal? I would love to save the money on GG and extra drywall if it won't be a big problem.


Thoughts?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Chris /forum/post/20822647


Another thing that is hurting me is the size of the room. If I do clips, channels, DD and GG, thats a good 3.5" off of each wall which shaves my ceiling height and isle width a good amount.

not sure what products you are refering to. With whisper clips and channel it is around 2 1/4 inch with two layers of 5/8.
 

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Another reminder that using a sheet of pre-damped drywall will result in a lower mass ceiling. You will have increased risk of seal failure, and your costs will be higher.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Chris /forum/post/20823089


Thanks for the link! I appreciate the idea of the Quietrock but it's a bit out of my price range. But, in my lunch break searching, I found a way to do clips and channels on the ceiling without loosing the height, so, I WILL be doing RSIC-V's or similiar with 7/8" furring channel and DD/GG on the ceiling



Now, how bad will the flanking be from the sound traveling up the studs of the 4 surrounding walls to the upstairs? Should I really consider DD/GG on those walls as well or will high and mid frequency flanking be minimal? I would love to save the money on GG and extra drywall if it won't be a big problem.


Thoughts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC /forum/post/20823472


If you attach your wall framing to the ceiling joists with RSIC clips you can put the double drywall and green glue directly on the studs and not loose the inch for clips and channel.

TL;DR version: Consider what Big said, and I'd do it that way if starting from scratch. My experience (basement non-dedicated room, 16' wide by 40' long) is that single drywall and no clips on the walls works pretty well if enough other measures are taken. In the end it's a sliding scale of "acceptable" versus "spending more money".


Longer version: FWIW, I had already framed out the walls for my basement multi-purpose (HT + music + gaming + kids) room and nailed directly into the ceiling joists before I really considered soundproofing. (If I'd known more before I started building, I'd have done _exactly_ what Big recommends...). The room is directly below my main first-floor family room, which has hardwood floors and is directly below the MBR. I already knew that any TV playing at "my" normal listening volume in the family room was clearly audible in the MBR and (before construction) in the basement.


Rather than taking down the already-framed walls, or re-doing the partially completed power and LV wiring, I went with a "partial soundproofing" best-effort for reasonable price job. I didn't recess the RISC/hat channel and did lose ~2.25" of ceiling height, but I chose to do that both to slightly reduce the expense, and more importantly to allow me to not have to soffit around (or relocate) a black-iron natural gas supply line. I *did* go with double 5/8" drywall + GG on the ceiling, as well as "old work" recessed cans (no enclosures) plus sconces. Used SilenSeal as appropriate around the edges of the ceiling etc. Used single 5/8" drywall on the walls, puttied the electrical sockets, etc. Due to room constraints, the rear surround speakers in my 7.2 setup are 8" in-ceiling but as with the old-work cans they attach only to the drywall and do not physically connect the ceiling to the joists.


I tried to make up for flanking noise in the wall and sound transmission through the cans and speakers by also doing multiple types of insulation in the basement ceiling, after discussion with the drywall contractor who's done some 10000+ square foot houses--used Icynene spray foam plus 3" rockwool in the joist cavities. Even before any drywall went in, I could no longer hear the family TV in the basement but could still definitely tell when the 10 year old was running/jumping upstairs.


Overall I'm *quite* happy. If I was doing it from scratch I'd do it differently (and could probably do it better for about the same cost if I planned well) but given where I was when I started considering soundproofing this gave me better results than I expected and within my budget.


NB: Figure out your lighting plan *before* you start mounting hat channel on the ceiling. I had a rough plan but didn't discuss it with the drywall contractor, and ended up with hat channel running right through where I'd thought my cans were going to go...even if this build is 100% DIY it's worth ensuring that everything will mesh in the final version. If doing old work cans, make sure you mark on the floor the *exact* location of the supply pigtails for each can...


Good luck with your build...now if I could only finish mine (next step: doors and floors).
 

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Depends on what performance level you're after. Sound will certainly flank through the walls and enter whatever the walls are attached to. Once outside the walls, your joists, stairwell, etc are exposed.


Was this the reduced height clip installation?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Chris /forum/post/20823089


Thanks for the link! I appreciate the idea of the Quietrock but it's a bit out of my price range. But, in my lunch break searching, I found a way to do clips and channels on the ceiling without loosing the height, so, I WILL be doing RSIC-V's or similiar with 7/8" furring channel and DD/GG on the ceiling



Now, how bad will the flanking be from the sound traveling up the studs of the 4 surrounding walls to the upstairs? Should I really consider DD/GG on those walls as well or will high and mid frequency flanking be minimal? I would love to save the money on GG and extra drywall if it won't be a big problem.


Thoughts?
 

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I'm at work and I didn't get a chance to read all the response you got but there's some very knowlegeble guys here so I'm sure you'll get your answers... Your room is almost the exact same size as mine. Check out my thread...


As far as soundproofing your room, it's not mid and high frequencies you should be concerned about, it the bass and "sub" ones... everything under 300hz should be your priority. Not to say you shouldn't pay atention to the mid's and high but they won't escape your room rearly as much as the bass frequencies...


If you plan on using a stage to lay your sub and speakers on it, make sure your stage is filled with sand, or at least ROXUL or some other soundproofing material. Use a double layer of aspenite on top (or similar product). Make sure your stage doesn't touch you walls and leave a good 1" gap on all sides. You should definately use ROXUL or a similar product to insulate your walls. Carpet floor with a good underlayer is very important. Since you have a limited space and you're concerned about losing more of it, I would at least go with the double drywall with green glue...


Also think about buying a good quality, fully insulated door for your theater room.


That should get you heading in the right direction... When you get to sound treatments...that's another story...



Gooood luck !!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC
If you attach your wall framing to the ceiling joists with RSIC clips you can put the double drywall and green glue directly on the studs and not loose the inch for clips and channel.
Thanks for the idea Big, but I won't be re-doing the framing, I kind of wish I thought of this earlier


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White
Another reminder that using a sheet of pre-damped drywall will result in a lower mass ceiling. You will have increased risk of seal failure, and your costs will be higher.
Understood, that stuff is too expensive for me anyway, I'll be staying away


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White
Depends on what performance level you're after. Sound will certainly flank through the walls and enter whatever the walls are attached to. Once outside the walls, your joists, stairwell, etc are exposed.


Was this the reduced height clip installation?

Yes, that was the reduced height plan, glad I found that!


On the note of flanking, will it be nearly as predominant as direct traveling through the ceiling? If not nearly as bad, maybe DD/GG alone will be sufficient? And as far as the performance level I'm after, It's not to turn the room into a sound proof theater, but to reduce a good amount of incoming and outgoing noise, mainly through the ceiling.


One last note, if you had to choose between doing either one layer of 5/8 dw with clips and channels or DD/GG without CC, what would be better for reducing flanking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lockeed
As far as soundproofing your room, it's not mid and high frequencies you should be concerned about, it the bass and "sub" ones... everything under 300hz should be your priority. Not to say you shouldn't pay atention to the mid's and high but they won't escape your room rearly as much as the bass frequencies...


If you plan on using a stage to lay your sub and speakers on it, make sure your stage is filled with sand, or at least ROXUL or some other soundproofing material. Use a double layer of aspenite on top (or similar product). Make sure your stage doesn't touch you walls and leave a good 1" gap on all sides. You should definately use ROXUL or a similar product to insulate your walls. Carpet floor with a good underlayer is very important. Since you have a limited space and you're concerned about losing more of it, I would at least go with the double drywall with green glue...


Also think about buying a good quality, fully insulated door for your theater room.


That should get you heading in the right direction... When you get to sound treatments...that's another story...



Gooood luck !!
Thanks for your thoughts lockeed. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear in the main post but I won't be worried about the LF content because I will be doing an IB setup with 4 18's in my front wall, the back of the subs will be firing into the basement, therefor all LF content will travel into the rest of the house no matter what.


And again for the stage, my mains will be flush mounted with my wall along with the subs so no worries about that. The stage is just filled with regular insulation with a 3/4" plywood top.


I have a solid core door for the entrance as well
 

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So you're not too concerned with knocking down the bass. If pushed, I'd omit the clips and channel. I would, however first suggest considering a less expensive clip. The decoupling is such a large component, I hate to have you abandon it without knowing all the costs and ramifications.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
So, are you saying that adding clips and channels to a DD/GG wall will significantly help with noise travel? Also, yeah, it's the cost plus the space I loose from doing both CC along with DD/GG.


Also, what is the total width for all of the above with the less expensive clip? I thought it was more than 2.25"
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Bump.
 

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Clip + channel + double 5/8" drywall = 2 5/8", assuming clips are attached to the bottom of the joists. If clip and channel is installed to blocking as shown above, your finished ceiling is as little as 1.5" below the joists
 

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Quote:
I won't be worried about the LF content because I will be doing an IB setup with 4 18's in my front wall, the back of the subs will be firing into the basement, therefor all LF content will travel into the rest of the house no matter what.

It seems odd to be talking about sound control when all of your low bass content will be rattling around in the entire house.


But anyway ... The performance of an IB setup depends partly on keeping the woofers' backwave isolated from the frontwave (since the two waves are out of phase). Consequently, every air leak in the theater will potentially degrade the performance of the IB. In particular, I would imagine it will be quite a challenge to cool the theater without doing too much damage to the performance of the IB.


As an alternative, several folks on this forum have enclosed a space adjacent to the theater for an IB chamber. As I recall, the size of the space varies from something on the order of a big closet to a small room. One of the main advantages is that this dedicated IB chamber can be extensively soundproofed and made completely air tight since you don't have to worry about HVAC in the chamber.


It might be worth thinking about ...
 

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Chris, I'd suggest you look and see what other HT builders have done and the products they've used here for many, many years. Many have posted their results.


Use the search function here if you're curious about a particular product that is quickly presented for your consideration. The search results might be interesting to you.


Also, beware of manufacturer's repeated claims of lower cost.
 
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